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So when did Lance start doping?

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Apr 19, 2010
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Race Radio said:
You should see the doping that goes on in Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Belgium U23 teams. They are cleaner now but 10 years ago it was insane. Worse then many Pro Tour teams.
I was a member of one of those under 23 teams a little more than 10 years ago.
A friend of mine regularly drove a team car that Willy Voet would have been proud of.
Not everyone indulged though.....


I was referring more about the college system for sports in the US.
It introduces a professional mentality to sports at an earlier age. The benefits and temptations of winning are plain to see.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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andy1234 said:
I was a member of one of those under 23 teams a little more than 10 years ago.
A friend of mine regularly drove a team car that Willy Voet would have been proud of.
Not everyone indulged though.....


I was referring more about the college system for sports in the US.
It introduces a professional mentality to sports at an earlier age. The benefits and temptations of winning are plain to see.
I have experienced both systems and would say the European system for Football, tennis, cycling, athletics, Basketball, etc introduce that same professional mentality.
 
May 12, 2010
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Promising 18 year olds are being prepared for the blood pass already as soon as they sign preliminary contracts with U23 teams. At least in Italy and Belgium, don't know first hand of the other nations RR mentioned.
 
Apr 13, 2010
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Sorry, Mr 38, can you rephrase that? I didn't catch if you mean they are being "prepared" so as not to test positive or if you mean they come under the passport's scrutiny from very early on - but I have a bad feeling you mean the first!
 
Jul 14, 2009
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Mr.38% said:
Promising 18 year olds are being prepared for the blood pass already as soon as they sign preliminary contracts with U23 teams. At least in Italy and Belgium, don't know first hand of the other nations RR mentioned.
Dear sir, when Lance started racing there were no U23 teams. Preliminary contracts? You should email Eddie B and ask what Lance's preliminary contract looked like..probably said 1 free big gulp per week and two hots dogs from the roller everything after that is paid for by the rider..those Subaru riders looked like they only got a couple of skin suits and a couple of jersey/short combos as per their contract . The really good riders probably got free tubes and water bottles
 
Oct 25, 2010
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His name did come up in the Strock claim and lawsuit, and that dates (at least) back to 1990. The suit claims that the drugs were being given to all of the riders, and the riders were lied to in terms of what they were being given.

All of this coaching activity was under the leadership of national team coaching director Chris Carmichael. Lance continued to be coached by him for years afterward, so you can all add 1+1 = ?.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Race Radio said:
I have experienced both systems and would say the European system for Football, tennis, cycling, athletics, Basketball, etc introduce that same professional mentality.
Some US college football games have viewing figures of 10million +
University of Texas Football programme made $68 million profit last year, the top five teams all made over $44 million.

The top 10 college basketball teams each made over $7 million dollars profit, with viewing figures of over 5 million for certain games.

Forget about professional mentality, these guys are just plain professional.

It makes European, non Professional sports, look like a village fete charity kick about.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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I see a pop warner football team practicing (under a set of auto-repair work lights) 3 times a week in the park near my home at around 7PM. It starts early.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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andy1234 said:
Some US college football games have viewing figures of 10million +
University of Texas Football programme made $68 million profit last year, the top five teams all made over $44 million.

The top 10 college basketball teams each made over $7 million dollars profit, with viewing figures of over 5 million for certain games.

Forget about professional mentality, these guys are just plain professional.

It makes European, non Professional sports, look like a village fete charity kick about.
Certainly College football is huge, but Football in general is huge. It dwarfs cycling in all measurements. Yes, college football players are professionals, as are many European U23 riders.

If you look at many of the Italian U23 teams there is little difference from a Pro Continental team. It is not unusual for European Football (Soccer) and Basketball players to sign professional contracts in their teens. Rubio was playing in top level Euroleague games at 15.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Race Radio said:
Certainly College football is huge, but Football in general is huge. It dwarfs cycling in all measurements. Yes, college football players are professionals, as are many European U23 riders.

If you look at many of the Italian U23 teams there is little difference from a Pro Continental team. It is not unusual for European Football (Soccer) and Basketball players to sign professional contracts in their teens. Rubio was playing in top level Euroleague games at 15.
What I'm trying to say is that there is a clear and well defined professional structure within college sports in the US that other countires do not have.

If you are a gifted athlete in a US college, you can see what success will bring, and how to get there (by fair means or foul) Success almost guarantees a career.

Even in the UKs biggest sport, Football, top players can simply slip through the net because that structure is not in place to the same level.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
I see a pop warner football team practicing (under a set of auto-repair work lights) 3 times a week in the park near my home at around 7PM. It starts early.
In NYC there are all these sports teams that are outside the "normal" things I am used to..Pop Warner and Little League Baseball are replaced by pretty well organized pick up leagues run by parents and other coaches. Ex semi pro and pro players from the PR and DR have kids doing workouts all year..indoors and out. You think Obama got a hard time about his birth cert..no way..lots of the kids in these programs do not have official anything..some kids know the approx week and month of their birthday.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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scribe said:
No. This was not my experience growing up in the US. I am a year older than Armstrong as well. The thought that he was sophisticated enough (if not devious) to administer himself anything as a developing teenage triathlete is rather stupid, to be frank.

But THIS is the clinic. If it can be dreamed up, it probably happened.
Agreed! You're referring to the dream that Armstrong rode clean, right? Or that the "playing field was level", or somesuch nonsense?

Are you a practicing journalist, Scribe? If so, you're an indication of why contemporary journalism is complete sh*t. If you can't put two-and-two together, you must be writing for the entertainment pages.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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andy1234 said:
What I'm trying to say is that there is a clear and well defined professional structure within college sports in the US that other countires do not have.

If you are a gifted athlete in a US college, you can see what success will bring, and how to get there (by fair means or foul) Success almost guarantees a career.

Even in the UKs biggest sport, Football, top players can simply slip through the net because that structure is not in place to the same level.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this.

I would suggest you check out one of the Netherlands Football academies or the FA'S apprentice program. They area as organised as any Texas High School football.....without the big stadiums of course.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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While Lance was being transformed under the bright "Friday Night Lights" at Plano High School, half a world away a young Jan Ullrich was attending the prestigious East German KJS Sports School.

Epic Showdown in the making...

Rugged Individualist Doping versus State Sponsored Doping.

Would make a great movie I think.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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Things are really downhill for Lance. Only yesterday he was beating the crap out of Ullrich on giant climbs, having insults and German beer spewed upon him and riding over giant painted penis's painted and EPO LANCE, F. Lance in all the glory for the copters to catch and be broadcast without editing by Versus and Eurosport.

Now look at poor Lance jogging in the cold pushing his son in a stroller.

Hey its all good, that is the life of a retired sportsman, GO LANCE!

Don't let that little wanna be jellyfish from Belize bother you. That is a Mennonite colony you know!
 
scribe said:
No. This was not my experience growing up in the US. I am a year older than Armstrong as well. The thought that he was sophisticated enough (if not devious) to administer himself anything as a developing teenage triathlete is rather stupid, to be frank.

But THIS is the clinic. If it can be dreamed up, it probably happened.
A year older, but clearly not a year wiser.

scribe said:
I found it interesting how paranoid individuals suffer bouts of notable anger.
I sometimes think you are going for the irony. Now I realize you are just a fanboy.

Though the evidence is easily spotted at virtually any high school in the nation. And, though, the self-administration of hypodermics is common for kids with Diabetes and other afflictions...

...we will have to resort to some quotes from reliable sources to point out the degree that the clown is being fooled:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/performance-enhancing-drugs/SM00045/NSECTIONGROUP=2

(Yes, that Mayo Clinic)

What are the most common performance-enhancing drugs?

For teens, the most common performance-enhancing drugs and supplements include
... Steroid precursors, such as androstenedione ("andro") and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA)
...

What can parents do to stop use of performance-enhancing drugs?

■Monitor your teen's purchases. Check the ingredients of any over-the-counter products your teen uses. Watch for performance-enhancing drug paraphernalia, such as vials, resealable plastic bags and hypodermic needles.

...

What are the warning signs of performance-enhancing drug use?

Possible red flags include:

■Behavioral, emotional or psychological changes — particularly increased aggressiveness ("roid rage")
Androstenedione? Where have we heard about that before? Wasn't that in Lance's bathroom?

Anything about that picture with Lance's mom and his 'Papa' that suggested increased aggressiveness to you?

Now, since you are a year older than Lance, perhaps you were too old to hear about this program started by Oregon Health & Science University in 1993:

Drug Prevention Programs for Teen Athletes Earn International Acclaim
...
ATLAS (Adolescents Training and Learning to Avoid Steroids) was initiated in 1993 with a five-year National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) grant. It is the world’s first and only program proven to reduce the desire for and use of anabolic steroids, sports supplements, alcohol and other illicit drugs among male adolescent athletes...

“Many countries have a significant problem with the rise of performance-enhancing drugs and supplements among their young athletes. It is our hope that we can help reverse this trend with our science-based programs,” said Elliot, a professor of medicine (health promotion and sports medicine) in the OHSU School of Medicine.

...

ATLAS and ATHENA are the only programs recommended as model curricula by the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004 and have received numerous awards for effectiveness
Finally, from a 1997 study on Female teen athletes:

Female athletes overall, and highly involved male athletes, were both nearly one and a half times more likely than their nonathletic counterparts to use steroids; and highly involved female athletes were nearly twice as likely to do so
Would you call Lance a highly involved male athlete? If so, he did seem to fit the risk profile.

Maybe you should take the clown hat off and try and check in with the real world.

Dave.
 
Apr 13, 2010
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Polish said:
While Lance was being transformed under the bright "Friday Night Lights" at Plano High School, half a world away a young Jan Ullrich was attending the prestigious East German KJS Sports School.

Epic Showdown in the making...

Rugged Individualist Doping versus State Sponsored Doping.

Would make a great movie I think.
They already did that one years ago... It's called Rocky IV.

But to be honest I don't they did half as many drugs - in the film I mean.
 
Oct 4, 2010
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thehog said:
Armstrong is going to get killed in court.
We could speculate about the most probable "preparatory treatment" -- "bring in the rhino shots"?
This morning his medical staff realized micro-sedating him isn't a viable option. They'll progress quickly though...
 
Apr 13, 2010
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cprior said:
We could speculate about the most probable "preparatory treatment" -- "bring in the rhino shots"?
This morning his medical staff realized micro-sedating him isn't a viable option. They'll progress quickly though...
Can't they just give him some blood from an Italian or Spanish rider? Then he'd be "tranquil" throughout...
 
Dec 7, 2010
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fatandfast said:
Dear sir, when Lance started racing there were no U23 teams. Preliminary contracts? You should email Eddie B and ask what Lance's preliminary contract looked like..probably said 1 free big gulp per week and two hots dogs from the roller everything after that is paid for by the rider..those Subaru riders looked like they only got a couple of skin suits and a couple of jersey/short combos as per their contract . The really good riders probably got free tubes and water bottles

Come to my stores. I got the beef jerky. I got the hot dogs and the purple slurpee’s.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Glenn_Wilson said:
Come to my stores. I got the beef jerky. I got the hot dogs and the purple slurpee’s.
Don't forget the free rides in the Stereo Wagon... and a chance to date Rebecca Twigg.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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BotanyBay said:
Don't forget the free rides in the Stereo Wagon... and a chance to date Rebecca Twigg.
:D Well yeah.


Oh and to be fair I think Lance started out in his Tri days. Of course I could just be bitter that I never switched from running to Tri. I thought tri's were for the earring boys.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
Don't forget the free rides in the Stereo Wagon... and a chance to date Rebecca Twigg.
Ouch. There's a double or triple Meathead whammy in there...
 

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