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So when did Lance start doping?

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Jul 22, 2009
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D-Queued said:
A year older, but clearly not a year wiser.



I sometimes think you are going for the irony. Now I realize you are just a fanboy.
You know, I've just noticed your posts. Not sure what your schtick is exactly, but it's clear you are well versed in the craft of ad hominem attacks in the attempt support your argument. That leads me to believe that you probably have a lot of experience on cycling forums, probably was once a Lance-lover turned jilted, and now spend in inordinate amount of time working to save the world from Lance.

D-Queued said:
Though the evidence is easily spotted at virtually any high school in the nation. And, though, the self-administration of hypodermics is common for kids with Diabetes and other afflictions...
lol. OK.

D-Queued said:
...we will have to resort to some quotes from reliable sources to point out the degree that the clown is being fooled:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/performance-enhancing-drugs/SM00045/NSECTIONGROUP=2

(Yes, that Mayo Clinic)

Androstenedione? Where have we heard about that before? Wasn't that in Lance's bathroom?

Anything about that picture with Lance's mom and his 'Papa' that suggested increased aggressiveness to you?

Now, since you are a year older than Lance, perhaps you were too old to hear about this program started by Oregon Health & Science University in 1993:



Finally, from a 1997 study on Female teen athletes:



Would you call Lance a highly involved male athlete? If so, he did seem to fit the risk profile.

Maybe you should take the clown hat off and try and check in with the real world.

Dave.
This bit of research was very impressive, but unfortunately has nothing to do with the discussion as to whether Lance was 'doping' for performance as a young teenager, which was obviously in the mid-80's.
 
scribe said:
You know, I've just noticed your posts. Not sure what your schtick is exactly, but it's clear you are well versed in the craft of ad hominem attacks in the attempt support your argument. That leads me to believe that you probably have a lot of experience on cycling forums, probably was once a Lance-lover turned jilted, and now spend in inordinate amount of time working to save the world from Lance.



lol. OK.



This bit of research was very impressive, but unfortunately has nothing to do with the discussion as to whether Lance was 'doping' for performance as a young teenager, which was obviously in the mid-80's.
Pleased to make your acquaintance.

Schtick: Fact trumps fiction
Cycling forum experience: Yes
Ad hominem experience: Plenty directed at me from Will and Floyd no less.

But, fact trumped fiction.

If you believe that I am engaging in ad hominems, you can report me to the Administrators. I am sure that they can take action if it is called for. Otherwise, accusing someone of an ad hominem is ... such an ad hominem isn't it?

Having been born well before you or Lance, I can assure you that doping in the playgrounds has gone on long before you were out of diapers.

After all, Alice, isn't it classic childhood fantasy to find a magic pill, potion or mushroom that cures everything?

Dave.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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D-Queued said:
Pleased to make your acquaintance.

Schtick: Fact trumps fiction
Cycling forum experience: Yes
Ad hominem experience: Plenty directed at me from Will and Floyd no less.

But, fact trumped fiction.

If you believe that I am engaging in ad hominems, you can report me to the Administrators. I am sure that they can take action if it is called for. Otherwise, accusing someone of an ad hominem is ... such an ad hominem isn't it?

Having been born well before you or Lance, I can assure you that doping in the playgrounds has gone on long before you were out of diapers.

After all, Alice, isn't it classic childhood fantasy to find a magic pill, potion or mushroom that cures everything?

Dave.
I am sure the administrators will get right on it.....
 
Nov 24, 2010
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androstenedione !

D-Queued said:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/performance-enhancing-drugs/SM00045/NSECTIONGROUP=2

Androstenedione? Where have we heard about that before? Wasn't that in Lance's bathroom?

Dave.
Good post D-Queued. From the moment I read the word 'androstenedione' in your post, ding-ding, which lead me all the way to that carton in Girona.Your research was an eye opener for someone such as myself, whom I did not realize was so naive. I knew of teenagers being involved with marijuana,heroin, ice et all, but performance enhancers did not cross my mind!

I hope TexPat read your post

Could someone with reasonable intelligence deduce that androstenedione was used prior to his triathlons up until at least the Girona days and maybe even ongoing after that?

And I have read more than once in the Clinic that Peds can trigger cancer.

cheers

I've done too many PEDS with too many people to escape the clutches of Novitzky
 
Jul 14, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
As intended.

seeing Mark without sunglasses is cool. He probably would have benefited from new contact lenses that would make it hard to see the state of one's pupils. explosive, twitchy, guy could really go fast
 
Jul 6, 2010
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fatandfast said:
seeing Mark without sunglasses is cool. He probably would have benefited from new contact lenses that would make it hard to see the state of one's pupils. explosive, twitchy, guy could really go fast
Yeah, but what a ****...
 
Jul 14, 2009
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Yeah, but what a ****...
even more strange..he was a team mate with Danny Van Haute the total opposite. One guy totally chill and the other a social timebomb. Even as an old man Mark was crazy competitive..and fast..and yes an a$$ho
 
Jul 16, 2010
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scribe said:
I am sure the administrators will get right on it.....
You don't care about Armstrong doping so much that you attack those who bring it up on Internet forums. Yeah, we've seen the likes of you before. Having had face-to-face conversations with people who share your mode of reasoning, you're probably also not a very talented cyclist and lived on a super high vicariously for three weeks of the year, 1999 -2005. It's tough when your mancrush flame is extinguished, but I feel like there should be a support group for contemporary Lance-lovers.

Is your stance that Armstrong didn't dope, or that it doesn't matter if he did? One position is stupid, the other is irresponsible.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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scribe said:
duh, I've got like 3000 posts here.
Is your stance that Armstrong didn't dope, or that it doesn't matter if he did? One position is stupid, the other is irresponsible.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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jimmypo,

Lance did not dope. If he did it was necessary to level the playing field.
Our belief is that Armstrong is an exceptional package, including his lazerlike focus, and his pockets full of courage.

The time Lance spent from diagnosis, through his chemo and continuing through his recovery allowed a retrospection upon his training values and allowed his core strength recovery, and a reavaluation of his ideals. Also during his recovery period Lance chose his focus on Letour.

Get used to it, this is how it was, is and ever will be.

If you don't like it, you can froth over the dorky pictures of Lance in a speedo as a 15 year old, or have personal time with his bloody eye cut from the ToC.
 
May 26, 2010
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flicker said:
jimmypo,

Lance did not dope. If he did it was necessary to level the playing field.
Our belief is that Armstrong is an exceptional package, including his lazerlike focus, and his pockets full of courage.

The time Lance spent from diagnosis, through his chemo and continuing through his recovery allowed a retrospection upon his training values and allowed his core strength recovery, and a reavaluation of his ideals. Also during his recovery period Lance chose his focus on Letour.

Get used to it, this is how it was, is and ever will be.

If you don't like it, you can froth over the dorky pictures of Lance in a speedo as a 15 year old, or have personal time with his bloody eye cut from the ToC.
your belief flickie and those stoopid enough to buy into it.

get used to him being under investigation.

frothing, only you when think of your poster uniballer boy:D
 
Aug 17, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
your belief flickie and those stoopid enough to buy into it.

get used to him being under investigation.

frothing, only you when think of your poster uniballer boy:D
B.

Novitzky, learns a lot about the sport of cycling from the investigation.
At the end of the day no matter what the outcome of the investigation cycling is what pays in the trial, not my Lance. That is why I make fun of Greg, he doesn't see the whole picture, it is as if he was still battelling it out with S. Kelly, Hinault, Fignon. Time to move on now, Greg.

I am not the one who copies, pastes fotos of Lance chowing tortilla chips,nekid man O bike, or takes fotos saying that this gut of that jawline is result of HGH o roids.

I watch the sport and use the evidence that I have. I also do not hate McQuaid. No time to be a hater for me.

I do not like Contador because he was caught and trashed the beef industry.
Read the Velonews this month, Contador was responsable for Red Bull pulling their sponsorship from Pegasus. How many cyclists and support did that little bull and beef story by Berto put out of work, maybe 125 people.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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fatandfast said:
seeing Mark without sunglasses is cool. He probably would have benefited from new contact lenses that would make it hard to see the state of one's pupils. explosive, twitchy, guy could really go fast
I remember him bullying a bunch of juniors in this very parking lot. Even though the guy was like 24 years old at the time.
 
Apr 28, 2010
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The next person to go off-topic or post a personal attack against someone will see some days of. Now get back to the topic of when Lance might have started doping and issues that are related with this, that means that the debate about teen doping is useful in establishing in when Lance might have started and thus is allowed, I think you guys yourself know the boundaries and stay within those.
 
Apr 23, 2010
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I had a random thought come into my head last night. I am fairly certain Lance was doping pre-cancer, given some of the rides he did against supercharged fields.

In the wake of widespread EPO abuse, the 50% hematocrit rule came into effect in 1997. Could Lance's physiology benefitted from the this to the determent of some of his rivals? As hct approaches 60% beneficial effects tend go down as blood transport is lower--could Lance's have threshold for this been much closer to 50%, and that explains his surge?

He really began to look like a different rider at the end of 98, placing high in the Vuelta, and medalling in Worlds TT.

Just a theory.
 
Nov 24, 2010
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pnwrider said:
I had a random thought come into my head last night. I am fairly certain Lance was doping pre-cancer, given some of the rides he did against supercharged fields.
Definitely juiced pre cancer. In fact many on forum say this is what triggered the cancer.
He was national junior triathlon champion. Juicing as a teen?

cheers
 
May 29, 2010
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scribe said:
No. This was not my experience growing up in the US. I am a year older than Armstrong as well. The thought that he was sophisticated enough (if not devious) to administer himself anything as a developing teenage triathlete is rather stupid, to be frank.

But THIS is the clinic. If it can be dreamed up, it probably happened.
I am the same age as Armstrong and grew up in a nearby state, and I can tell you that there were football players and track & field athletes in my highschool who were absolutely using steroids, and they were getting them without any adult help (just like drugs... it's not hard). It isn't unrealistic at all. You don't have to be sophisticated to take a pill or shoot up with some steroids.

That doesn't mean he did it, but if he had wanted to, it would be very easy.
 
May 20, 2010
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scribe said:
No. This was not my experience growing up in the US. I am a year older than Armstrong as well. The thought that he was sophisticated enough (if not devious) to administer himself anything as a developing teenage triathlete is rather stupid, to be frank.

But THIS is the clinic. If it can be dreamed up, it probably happened.
We are the same age. I had the misfortune of being born into a military family with what had to be the worst postings ever, and consequently spent three years in a high school in Alabama. There were several knuckle draggers on the football team who were on steroids, and more than a few lads on smack---both of which are administered by hypodermic.
So, the stupidity that you speak of is well known.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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TexPat said:
You must have grown up in Candyland.
He probably did not see a lot of steroid use. The rest of us saw plenty or at least enough to know that it is perfectly plausible that Armstrong started jacking in high school along with the other uber jocks.

Anyway, we can be certain it started no later than when he hooked up with Chris Carmichael and the other coaches on the national team. That was long before he got to Europe.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Like I said, this is the clinic, if you can dream it, it probably happened. Ad hominem will serve as supportive evidence.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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scribe said:
Like I said, this is the clinic, if you can dream it, it probably happened. Ad hominem will serve as supportive evidence.
The "You Guys Suck" lines are getting old. Perhaps someday you discuss a specific topic instead of the blanket insults?
 

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