Some bikes in the peloton better than others?

[ultimobici]

These days it is much less common for a few reasons.

Up until the late 90's, or even more recently, teams used welded frames in tubing that was available to a multitude of builders. It was easy to make a frame that was visually identical to the standard issue. Thus Millar's TVM Gazelle was easy to replicate, as were Indurain, Riis & Ullrich's Pinarellos.
With the advent of carbon monocoque frames it became harder to get an alternative frame made. Manufacturers incorporated details that make their product stand out, so a ringer was easily exposed. Remember Tyler Hamilton's Parlee badged up as a Look?

 

[Finbouy]

From an outsiders POV (not a pro) I'd hazzard a guess that most top flight race machines are pretty similar now. In the main due to other manufacturers buying a competitors bike, stipping it and seeing how/why the design works.. Then taking the best bit of it and incoporate that into your design.. as time goes on minute changes have little effect until something radical comes along, then riders notice.. and the whole thing evolves again.
I'd kinda thing it's more to do with the setup or bars/seats and the like that have the most impact on a rider.
It does intreague me in that then wheelbase length, headstock height/seatpost hight all vary little from manufacturer to manufacturer..
IT's almost like they've all hit a design limit now and know what works best on any given terain.

 

[ultimobici]

From an outsiders POV (not a pro) I'd hazzard a guess that most top flight race machines are pretty similar now. In the main due to other manufacturers buying a competitors bike, stipping it and seeing how/why the design works.. Then taking the best bit of it and incoporate that into your design.. as time goes on minute changes have little effect until something radical comes along, then riders notice.. and the whole thing evolves again.
I'd kinda thing it's more to do with the setup or bars/seats and the like that have the most impact on a rider.
It does intreague me in that then wheelbase length, headstock height/seatpost hight all vary little from manufacturer to manufacturer..
IT's almost like they've all hit a design limit now and know what works best on any given terain.

When you bear in mind that as little as 10 years ago the frames ridden were actually built by the manufacturers rather than being bought in from the same factories in Taiwan there was scope for differing levels of build quality. The difference in quality between Trek, Specialized, Scott etc are now miniscule.

 

[forty four]

if thats the case and there all the same why are treks heavier and more flexible in key areas based on independent testing than say my 3 favorites scott specialized and cervelo. pinerellos and mercx rather heavy to as are many others. the rider is key of course but not all frames are the same.

 

[ultimobici]

if thats the case and there all the same why are treks heavier and more flexible in key areas based on independent testing than say my 3 favorites scott specialized and cervelo. pinerellos and mercx rather heavy to as are many others. the rider is key of course but not all frames are the same.

If you read my post, you'd see that I was commenting on the range of variation not what an "independent" test suggests.

If there was a massive difference between Trek, Specialized and Cervelo why is it not illustrated by one make dominating?

 

[Granville57]

Maybe not at Roubaix this year though.

Who remembers this?

No image here that I can see. Can I assume that it's supposed to be George losing his stem at Roubaix?

I will also second Roland's request to the mods:

Dear Mods,
I would be extremely grateful if you would correct the spelling of "peleton" in the title to this thread. It's annoying.
Many thanks,

Roland.

 

[soOpOSMthanks!]

^^^ True. I don't understand how anyone spells that wrong to be honest, I mean it's only plastered mostly everywhere racing related. Peleton sounds so redneck.

"Imma get me somma dat pe-le-ton, dat's right NASCAR."

 

[taiwan]

^^^ True. I don't understand how anyone spells that wrong to be honest, I mean it's only plastered mostly everywhere racing related. Peleton sounds so redneck.

"Imma get me somma dat pe-le-ton, dat's right NASCAR."

"Evens" is the one that gets me.

 

[mastersracer]

didn't Boonen lose a classic a few years back due to his flexy Time skipping/shifting gears under load?

 

[xnobrakesx]

^^^ True. I don't understand how anyone spells that wrong to be honest, I mean it's only plastered mostly everywhere racing related. Peleton sounds so redneck.

"Imma get me somma dat pe-le-ton, dat's right NASCAR."

I'm not sure why anyone could care about this so much; the intent was and always is clear. I hope those of you who are forever annoyed by common misspellings and mispronunciations were not part of the camp that made fun of LEOPARD TREK for their press release on how their team name should be written and spoken.

On topic... I suggest you demo the bicycles the pros are equipped with and feel the differences, they are real. That doesn't mean they will win or lose you a race.

 

[mustachestaff]

I guess a more concrete question might be, Which pro riders have publicly expressed preferring one brand over another? Probably not many, as I'm sure they're encouraged to talk up their sponsor bike brand, not bad mouth it. When I read the tech feature on A. Schleck's new Trek, it sounded like he was still trying to adjust to the bike. It seems like riders might have to adjust their riding style to get comfortable on a new bike, but once they adjust, they'll probably see similar results as they did before.

Peloton. Thanks to all who refudiated my ignorant, redneck spelling of that word.

 

[Mambo95]

Which pro riders have publicly expressed preferring one brand over another?

The only rider I can remember that was allowed to ride a non-team bike (not re-badged) was Axel Merckx, but then it was his dad's brand.

 

[karlboss]

If you read my post, you'd see that I was commenting on the range of variation not what an "independent" test suggests.

If there was a massive difference between Trek, Specialized and Cervelo why is it not illustrated by one make dominating?

Who did trek sponsor last year? who did specialized sponsor? how did they do?

Small sample spaces are great

 

[plooton]

I have no idea on this, but just wonder one thing: this season not any pro-team uses Scott bikes. 2 years before it was released Sc. Addict with the fstest bike and best for Cavendish, and Velits did a great job on Scott finishing third overal at last Vuelta. Scott can't currently match the other bikes or what't the matter?

 

[Sanitiser]

Other bike companies just made it easier for teams to use their products i.e. reduced prices

 

[runninboy]

The only rider I can remember that was allowed to ride a non-team bike (not re-badged) was Axel Merckx, but then it was his dad's brand.

Its going back a bit but that Huffy that Andy Hampsten rode to a Giro win was a Landshark. He put a little landshark sticker somewhere one it at one time. I thought that was pretty cool, so everyone who knew the logo knew the real bike under the badge. I remember because John Slawta(founder & builder of Landshark)had a small photo in the shop with Andy, the bike and the landshark sticker.
I think most of the other 7 eleven bikes were rebadged Serotta. I think when Knickman was on LaVieClaire he also rode a rebadgedLandshark

 

[BroDeal]

Other bike companies just made it easier for teams to use their products i.e. reduced prices

Say what? Do you think that teams go out and buy their bikes?

These days it costs about two to three million euro for a bike company to sponsor a ProTour team. Either Scott could not or did not want to pay that kind of money. It is as simple as that.

 

[woodie]

I have no idea on this, but just wonder one thing: this season not any pro-team uses Scott bikes. 2 years before it was released Sc. Addict with the fstest bike and best for Cavendish, and Velits did a great job on Scott finishing third overal at last Vuelta. Scott can't currently match the other bikes or what't the matter?

Scott pulled out of sponsering HTC because they didn't want to increase their sponsership and so decided to sponser Pegasus and we all know what happened there..

 

[runninboy]

It was Boonen, but it was because he wanted different geometry to Specialized's standard set-up. They supplied him a few frames in alloy, allegedly built by Billato, so that they could get it correct before making an expensive mould for the carbon frame. It was totally in the open bar the name of the actual frame builder.

thats right. I remember the part about tweeking the geometry before they made the mould. Didn't know about Billato tho. Interesting about Gilbert.
I also remember a young Italian a few years ago I think he was U/23 Italian champ who said openly he would continue on aluminum until they got the carbon frame the way he liked.
I realize that carbon is expensive and different geometries ride differently, but i think once a bike fits one is not better than another. Fit is the key not so much who made the frame.

 

[Badeend]

Riders get payed by a constructor so ofcourse they wont say it was a ****ty bike. It's just after the season is over that you hear some stories. Vansummeren should have broken a Ridley-frame every month in his last year at Lotto.
Frank Vandenbroucke said in his book he only raised one hand when he won at Avila, cause the frame had become totally flexible.

When you are a great cyclist it wont matter what you ride, the only point of difference in the bikes is the comfort and stiffness. Comfort could give an advantage in Paris-Roubaix for example. I have a Stevens bike and when i do cobblestones on that one i almost fall of my bike, when i do the same with a Trek Madone it filters away a lot of shocks. So yes, a rider will be a bit fresher after 250k on the Trek then on the Stevens.

Relabellingg still happens a lot. With tubes its very common, in TT's you see 90% riding Veloflex. I have bougth wheels from the Milram-team, they were sponsored by Schwalbe and there were veloflex tubes on the rims with a schwalbe and Milram label. You also see Hed wheels with sticker on it from other brands. QuickStep had Time forks in their Speci's.

 

[Yeahright]

All of the various companies top models are great bikes. The exception is the Ridley Noah which is better than the others.

The fact that I happen to ride one is purely coincidence and has no bearing on my objectivity

 

[Boeing]

Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades.

nice I am going to use that and perhaps set it as my back ground quote on my Garmin 800 for motivation thanks

 

[PCutter]

It still happens when a parts supplier doesn't make a product a pro team needs. For example Easton don't make a disc rear so BMC's TT bikes have a disc rear which looks a lot like a Sub9 with Easton stickers

French manufacturer Cyfac were noted for building re-stickered pro bikes a decade ago like Cofidis' MBKs or CA's Decathlons (I could have those teams wrong, but I remember Millar and O'Grady respectively riding them)

 

[Eric8-A]

Talking to friends of mine who are pro's basically confirmed this.
The bikes at the top level are pretty much interchangeable.
From a marketing standpoint the riders say the same thing every year at training camp "Oh i am so happy to be on a _______, i have long admired these bikes and it truly is the best bike i have ever ridden!"
And then you find out someone like Boonen was still riding an Aluminum frame while the rest of the team was on carbon.It was a few years ago and not at all sure it was Boonen but it was someone of that caliber.
Not as much rebadging anymore because it is a point of diminishing returns. the bikes all do the job.
I was on a ride with a pro a couple years ago and he had just switched teams, I asked him about his ride and he looked kind of startled
"I don't know...
its just some piece of Asian plastic they gave me to train on, when the season starts they'll give me some fancier painted piece of Asian plastic, its all the same..."

Here's a good example of that.

V.T.: Tell us a bit about your Simplon bike you and the team will be riding.

S. Cozza: The Simplon bike is hands down the best bike I have ever ridden. I'm not just saying this because its my teams bike. Its Austrian made and just rides and handles incredibly. Its incredibly stiff yet absorbs all the bumps in the road.

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

I don't know i remember that a few riders from Astana complained about Trek and who felt Specialised was better.