Spanish riders Surnames!!!!

[djkmordi]

Can someone answer this question why Spaniards names now have become double barrel? ie "Sastre" is now "Sastre Candel" and so on through them all.

Did I miss something? obviously I have

 

[theyoungest]

Last name of father, last name of mother. Has been like this forever.

Valverde Belmonte, Freire Gómez, Sanchez Gil... to name some off the top of my head.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Spanish riders, and riders of Spanish origin, take the surnames of both parents. First the father, then the mother. They are almost invariably known by the first of these surnames. Hence 'Carlos Sastre (Candil)', 'Alberto Contador (Velasco)', 'Samuel Sánchez (González)', 'Alejandro Valverde (Belmonte)', 'Marta Vilajosana (Andréu)', 'José Rujano (Guillén)', 'Juan Mauricio Soler (Hernández)', 'Julio Alberto Pérez (Cuapio)' and so on.

 

[Jamsque]

In most European countries the tradition with surnames is that wives take their husband's name and children take their father's.

I may not be 100% correct but I am pretty sure that in Spain, the tradition is for wives to keep their own surnames when they marry and children to take their father's first surname and their mother's second surname. Thus, Spanish people have one surname that comes from their father's male ancestors and one that comes from their mother's female ancestors. In the example you gave, Sastre is his father's first surname and Candil is his mother's second surname.

[edit]Beaten like a Spanish sprinter.

 

[djkmordi]

Thanks for that, I assumed that was the case regarding fathers name and Mothers maiden name but its only in the last few months I have noticed the added name in race results and reports and publications!!!

 

[craig1985]

So what happens if there is a one night stand and the father does a runner and is never seen again, does the child take on his/her mother's surname?

 

[josekaubeda]

So what happens if there is a one night stand and the father does a runner and is never seen again, does the child take on his/her mother's surname?

If you are born in Spain you must have two surnames.

 

[Mambo95]

It makes you wonder about Rigoberto Uran Uran's parents.

Or maybe they were big Simon Le Bon fans.


(Yes, I know he's Colombian, not Spanish)

 

[icefire]

In most European countries the tradition with surnames is that wives take their husband's name and children take their father's.

I may not be 100% correct but I am pretty sure that in Spain, the tradition is for wives to keep their own surnames when they marry and children to take their father's first surname and their mother's second surname. Thus, Spanish people have one surname that comes from their father's male ancestors and one that comes from their mother's female ancestors. In the example you gave, Sastre is his father's first surname and Candil is his mother's second surname.

[edit]Beaten like a Spanish sprinter.

Almost correct

Women keep their own surnames after being married. Regarding transfer of surnames from parents to children you got one point wrong:
First surname is the father's first surname; second surname is the mother's first surname.

To make things more complicated, a recent law allows switching the order of the father and mother surnames taken by newborn children (first surname would be the mother's first one; second surname would be the father's first surname), but it requires all children born from the same mother and father have the same order.

The Portuguese follow a similar practise: first surname is the mother's second surname; second surname is the father's second surname. If you think carefully about it, the mother's surname appears first, but it's the father's the one that is preserved after two generations.

Mind boggling.

So what happens if there is a one night stand and the father does a runner and is never seen again, does the child take on his/her mother's surname?

Children take both surnames from their mother in this case.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's not really mind-boggling; it's the same principle.

Spanish: Forename Father's name Mother's name
Portuguese: Forename Mother's name Father's name

where the bolded name is the one that carries on to the next generation. They both use exactly the same principle, just opposite order.

 

[icefire]

It makes you wonder about Rigoberto Uran Uran's parents.

Or maybe they were big Simon Le Bon fans.


(Yes, I know he's Colombian, not Spanish)

Simon Le Bon Fans

It doesn't matter. Spanish speaking countries in America use to follow the Spanish custom. And chances are that both parents share their surname without being close relatives.

 

[icefire]

It's not really mind-boggling; it's the same principle.

Spanish: Forename Father's name Mother's name
Portuguese: Forename Mother's name Father's name

where the bolded name is the one that carries on to the next generation. They both use exactly the same principle, just opposite order.

Correct. It's the same principle, but to make the transfer across generations work, Portuguese must take the second surname of their parents, whereas Spaniards take the first one. It's not just switching the order.

 

[L'arriviste]

Simon Le Bon Fans

It doesn't matter. Spanish speaking countries in America use to follow the Spanish custom. And chances are that both parents share their surname without being close relatives.

OT, but 45% of Koreans share just three surnames (Kim, Lee, Park). Worse, Koreans are clannish so it is generally frowned upon to marry someone with the same surname.

This same devotion to clannish purity means that deed poll name changes or simply creating "new" surnames are unpalatable ideas, so the problem facing many young, nubile Koreans is insoluble.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Correct. It's the same principle, but to make the transfer across generations work, Portuguese must take the second surname of their parents, whereas Spaniards take the first one. It's not just switching the order.

But that second surname is the one that I bolded, therefore it's the one that transfers across generations, and then you take the second one of those (your father's), and so forth and so on.


As for Urán Urán, his wiki only has one surname, both in English and Spanish (!), so it's even possible that Urán has simply been filled in both slots just so that his name conforms to Hispanic naming customs. If not, then he's only joining Footon's David Gutiérrez Gutiérrez in the name stakes.

 

[icefire]

But that second surname is the one that I bolded, therefore it's the one that transfers across generations, and then you take the second one of those (your father's), and so forth and so on.

To make things clearer:

Spanish: Forename, Father's 1st name, Mother's 1st name
Under the new law, parents can choose for their newborns the order Forename, Mother's 1st name, Father's 1st name.

Portuguese: Forename, Mother's 2nd name, Father's 2nd name

 

[valentius borealis]

Simon Le Bon Fans

It doesn't matter. Spanish speaking countries in America use to follow the Spanish custom. And chances are that both parents share their surname without being close relatives.

Argentina is an exception to the rule here.

 

[ViaPagliano]

OT, but 45% of Koreans share just three surnames (Kim, Lee, Park). Worse, Koreans are clannish so it is generally frowned upon to marry someone with the same surname.

This same devotion to clannish purity means that deed poll name changes or simply creating "new" surnames are unpalatable ideas, so the problem facing many young, nubile Koreans is insoluble.

I'd like to respond to this, as a person of Korean heritage. I think this totally applied in the old days. And still, those three surnames hold up about 45% of the population. However, if two people with the last name "KIM" were to marry, they'd track back what Kim-family they came from.

It's based on geography from what I know.

And it's also important to note that you'll never find a Korean woman with the first name Kim or Kimberly, because the chances of her name in Western culture becoming "Kim Kim" are very high!

anyhow, back on topic.

If Carlos Sastre Candil were to marry, say, Joan Smith...

Would the child's name be carried over as, say...Juan Sastre-Smith?

 

[L'arriviste]

I think this totally applied in the old days ... It's based on geography from what I know.

I daresay you're right. When I lived in Korea, I was a long way in the back country and times hadn't changed so quickly there.

 

[RedheadDane]

It sorta confused me too. The way they suddenly all had an extra name...

(First learned about the Carlos Sastre Candil thing back when he won the Tour, the Danish commentators were joking a bit that his initials where the same as the team he was riding on's...)

 

[Michielveedeebee]

It amazes me that no-one has mentioned Carlos Barredo Llamazales

 

[RedheadDane]

Well... definitely a name where you can understand the non-using of the last...