Speedplay's Legal Goon Squad

[BroDeal]

I think you'll find Friknspit initially advertised as Speedplay replacement kits and only changed to lollipop pedals after being threatened with legal action. Lollipop pedals = Speedplay pedals for the purpose of this argument so that was just a case of more dishonesty. I notice he didn't use the exact same bearing, he used another bearing, why was that? As far as the bearings are concerned I don't think any of us are aware of the degree of customisation, design and application that this bearing had for this product. As a mechanical engineer I can tell you that bearing design and selection is a very complicated process. Sure Frikinspit says he found one that fit but it hasn't been through the testing that the Speedplay product went through. Does it comply with all the codes? He is using what he believes to be an equivalent bearing in a patented product. You can believe his line about it being a superior product, I'll reserve my judgement. He is doing it to make money from someone else's intellectual labours. I don't buy his story about helping out his mates and only selling a few here or there. That all changed the moment he went onto EBay. Unchecked it could have grown into a business selling hundreds or thousands, all the while destroying Speedplay's replacement parts business. I'm sorry but I don't have any sympathy for this intellectual parasite. What involvement did he have in the development of Speedplay pedals, a patented product? NONE! He's just doing what we accuse the Chinese of doing. If he wants to make money out of pedals he should invent his own.

Good of you to dodge Elagabalus' post. First "by your reading" Friknspit is guilty of contributory infringement. With that shot down, now you are whining about someone setting up a business that helps people repair and maintain their own property, and you are doing it by invoking the yellow peril boogieman. What that has to with someone selling standard bearings on eBay I have no idea, but I guess to people of a certain prejudice bringing up the Chinese somehow adds weight to their attack on a smallfry entrepreneur

So what if Friknspit grows his operation into a large scale repair business? Speedplay's patents protect the initial sale of their product. Once a customer purchases a set of pedals, Speedplay has made the money that their patents entitle them to. After that the pedals belong to the customer, and the customer is free to use them, maintain them, repair them, or resale them as they see fit.

If Speeplay wants to make additional money beyond their patents by offering repair kits or service then they have to compete in the free market. With their distribution channel and the ability to offer "official" repair kits/service then they should not have a problem unless they charge too much or offer bad customer service. But charging too much is exactly what they did. They jacked their priced up to the level that it opened an opportunity for others to offer a better price. Now they are using legal thuggery to prevent distributoin of a legitimate and legal product

 

[Black Dog]

Good of you to dodge Elagabalus' post. First "by your reading" Friknspit is guilty of contributory infringement. With that shot down, now you are whining about someone setting up a business that helps people repair and maintain their own property, and you are doing it by invoking the yellow peril boogieman. What that has to with someone selling standard bearings on eBay I have no idea, but I guess to people of a certain prejudice bringing up the Chinese somehow adds weight to their attack on a smallfry entrepreneur

So what if Friknspit grows his operation into a large scale repair business? Speedplay's patents protect the initial sale of their product. Once a customer purchases a set of pedals, Speedplay has made the money that their patents entitle them to. After that the pedals belong to the customer, and the customer is free to use them, maintain them, repair them, or resale them as they see fit.

If Speeplay wants to make additional money beyond their patents by offering repair kits or service then they have to compete in the free market. With their distribution channel and the ability to offer "official" repair kits/service then they should not have a problem unless they charge too much or offer bad customer service. But charging too much is exactly what they did. They jacked their priced up to the level that it opened an opportunity for others to offer a better price. Now they are using legal thuggery to prevent distributoin of a legitimate and legal product

Perfectly Stated...A big +1 BroDeal.

If I own a pair of speedplays then they are mine and I can do with them what I want. If I want to buy bearings or repair kits from the guy who sells lobsters from a truck on the side of the road, so be it. The intilectual property argument is BS. No one is cloning the pedals, just selling bearings. Look at the auto industry as an example of aftermarket in repairs and parts. Speedplay does not have to honour a warranty if the parts are not thiers but they are being grade A *ssholes by trying to bully this guy. Greedplay pedals...

 

[DirtyWorks]

Perfectly Stated...A big +1 BroDeal.

If I own a pair of speedplays then they are mine and I can do with them what I want.....

Not really any more. The legal environment in the U.S. is moving away from your stated ideal. In the U.S. it is called the First Sale Doctrine and businesses have been steadily carving out exceptions for a long time. Is it wrong? Of course it is. The Electronic Freedom Foundation defends the First Sale Doctrine for digital stuff. I don't know if there's an equivalent organization for material stuff.

The legal justification is Speedplay is only protecting their intellectual property. I'm glad I never rewarded them for their lunacy.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Another high quality contribution from BroDeal.

Hmmmm, they make great pedals that work well at a good price. They are easy to maintain.

Once again BroDeal, if ya don't like them, I'm sure SP will survive w/o your $.

Brodeal, how much are their Zero rebuild kits? Not the $125 stated. I'm sure you don't own them nor will you.

 

[Polyarmour]

Good of you to dodge Elagabalus' post. First "by your reading" Friknspit is guilty of contributory infringement. With that shot down, now you are whining about someone setting up a business that helps people repair and maintain their own property, and you are doing it by invoking the yellow peril boogieman. What that has to with someone selling standard bearings on eBay I have no idea, but I guess to people of a certain prejudice bringing up the Chinese somehow adds weight to their attack on a smallfry entrepreneur

So what if Friknspit grows his operation into a large scale repair business? Speedplay's patents protect the initial sale of their product. Once a customer purchases a set of pedals, Speedplay has made the money that their patents entitle them to. After that the pedals belong to the customer, and the customer is free to use them, maintain them, repair them, or resale them as they see fit.

If Speeplay wants to make additional money beyond their patents by offering repair kits or service then they have to compete in the free market. With their distribution channel and the ability to offer "official" repair kits/service then they should not have a problem unless they charge too much or offer bad customer service. But charging too much is exactly what they did. They jacked their priced up to the level that it opened an opportunity for others to offer a better price. Now they are using legal thuggery to prevent distributoin of a legitimate and legal product

Frikinspit did not replace the bearing with the manufacturers recommended bearing. He found another one that fit the dimensions and used that. It is not the correct bearing, it's untested and may not comply with design codes etc. There is no question that it is illegal to sell a part that goes into a patented product ....unless that part is in common use. While Frikinspit's argues that his bearing is in common use, I think Speedplay would argue that their bearing isn't. I mean if it was in common use, why didn't Frikinspit use it? The best you can argue is that this case falls into legal limboland and who knows which way the court would view it. Frikinspit is clearly not confident enough of his position to take on Speedplay, he would rather just trash the company's reputation in anonymous forums. He should either take them on or just shut up.

 

[BroDeal]

Frikinspit did not replace the bearing with the manufacturers recommended bearing. He found another one that fit the dimensions and used that. It is not the correct bearing, it's untested and may not comply with design codes etc. There is no question that it is illegal to sell a part that goes into a patented product ....unless that part is in common use. While Frikinspit's argues that his bearing is in common use, I think Speedplay would argue that their bearing isn't. I mean if it was in common use, why didn't Frikinspit use it? The best you can argue is that this case falls into legal limboland and who knows which way the court would view it. Frikinspit is clearly not confident enough of his position to take on Speedplay, he would rather just trash the company's reputation in anonymous forums. He should either take them on or just shut up.

This has to be one of the stupidest posts I have ever read. A guy selling three or four bearing kits a week on eBay is going to pay a lawyer to fight it out with Speedplay? Maybe in your world. The rest of us studied math and economics; we can figure out when it is not worth spending money despite having a valid claim.

Since you are the big time mechanical engineer, maybe you should show us how Frikinspit's bearings are unsuitable instead of pulling stuff out of your butt and asserting that it might be true.

Better yet, I'll PM Frikinspit and see if he will come here. You can explain to him how his bearings are unsuitable for use in Speedplay pedals. I'm sure that you explaining how your baseless speculation trumps his years of actual experience rebuilding Speedplay pedals will be very interesting.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Dog in Fight?

The warped morality of punters in here is staggering...

Polyarmour,

As someone that's worked a few companies each shut down over serial trademark/patent litigation by the leader in the market segment, I know what the guy selling spare parts is going through and it's absurd. If a company larger than Speedplay ever sold spare parts to their product, there's no way they'd take up the fight.

There are limits to what someone can do with a product they don't manufacture and bearing kits are well within the limits. You've clearly got a dog in this fight. The amount of hyperbole you are spewing doesn't help your side of the argument. The strong words are working against you and Speedplay.

 

[Polyarmour]

This has to be one of the stupidest posts I have ever read. A guy selling three or four bearing kits a week on eBay is going to pay a lawyer to fight it out with Speedplay? Maybe in your world. The rest of us studied math and economics; we can figure out when it is not worth spending money despite having a valid claim.

Since you are the big time mechanical engineer, maybe you should show us how Frikinspit's bearings are unsuitable instead of pulling stuff out of your butt and asserting that it might be true.

Better yet, I'll PM Frikinspit and see if he will come here. You can explain to him how his bearings are unsuitable for use in Speedplay pedals. I'm sure that you explaining how your baseless speculation trumps his years of actual experience rebuilding Speedplay pedals will be very interesting.

It's called put up or shut up BroDeal.
I understand why he backed down from taking on Speedplay, I would too in his position, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
He gets to trash Speedplay's name all over the internet, but he keeps himself anonymous and out of harms way. He posts selected Speedplay letters to him, doesn't post his responses back to them. He is damaging Speedplay's reputation over a matter that is highly debatable. Yet when it comes to actually proving his case, (ie in court) he goes missing in action. You think that's fair?

 

[BroDeal]

It's called put up or shut up BroDeal.
I understand why he backed down from taking on Speedplay, I would too in his position, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
He gets to trash Speedplay's name all over the internet, but he keeps himself anonymous and out of harms way. He posts selected Speedplay letters to him, doesn't post his responses back to them. He is damaging Speedplay's reputation over a matter that is highly debatable. Yet when it comes to actually proving his case, (ie in court) he goes missing in action. You think that's fair?

Your defense of Speedplay's dirty tactics changes every post. Now you are angry that instead of rolling over and keeping everything quiet, Frikinspit publicly revealed Speedplay's legal bullying. I for one am glad he went public. It has given many others a chance to reveal how they too were wronged by Speedplay. If Speedplay wants to tell their side of the story then it is easy for them to post on weightweenies, RBR, Bikeradar, here, or any other Internet site where this has been discussed.

Rich that you are moaning about what is unfair. I'll tell you what is unfair. It is a company bullying an individual with a bogus claim of contributory infringement, knowing that the person does not have the resources to fight their invalid claims. I don't see you crying about that unfairness.

The best you have been able to come up with is some hand waving about how the bearing may not be suitable. You don't have any evidence that this is so, but it has not stopped you from posting FUD about it.

 

[Hawkwood]

Frikinspit did not replace the bearing with the manufacturers recommended bearing. He found another one that fit the dimensions and used that. It is not the correct bearing, it's untested and may not comply with design codes etc. There is no question that it is illegal to sell a part that goes into a patented product ....unless that part is in common use. While Frikinspit's argues that his bearing is in common use, I think Speedplay would argue that their bearing isn't. I mean if it was in common use, why didn't Frikinspit use it? The best you can argue is that this case falls into legal limboland and who knows which way the court would view it. Frikinspit is clearly not confident enough of his position to take on Speedplay, he would rather just trash the company's reputation in anonymous forums. He should either take them on or just shut up.

I don't understand this point about the bearings. I contacted a component manufacturer about replacing some bearings in a bottom bracket and they informed me that as long as the code on the bearing was the same it would work. In my case several manufacturers made exactly the same bearing, and indeed the bearing was not even originally designed for cycle components. Are you suggesting that Speedplay developed their own bearing design, and only they can supply this bearing? This seems like a very costly way of going about things, especially when I suspect most cycle component manufacturers would simply check what was already commercially available and go with that.

Stop Press! I've just seen that Speedplay use NSK bearings, NSK makes bearings for a number of industries, but oddly doesn't mention the cycle component one. I assume Speedplay checked out NSK's catalogue and specced some bearings that looked as if they would do. I suppose that bearings originally intended for motorbikes and such like would easily meet the demands of cycle components.

 

[frikinspit]

First time posting at Cycling News.

To get the complete story please read the thread at WW:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=80010

Special thanks to all who posted this story on various other cycling forums. BroDeal at CyclingNews, SPFailure at RoadbikeReview, HippieBob at VeloNews as well as many others including those who posted replies. Thanks to all the legal professionals that have given me advice and insight as to the legal process.

Most of the replies have been very well thought out and the discussions have been very intelligent throughout the cycling community. There have been a few that seem to be posting out of a blind devotion to Speedplay. No legal basis for their retorts. Just reactionary seemingly protective instinct. Sadly, I was part of that cult for a time. I have not read one retort that made me think ‘I might have been in the wrong’. I would genuinely like to see a well thought out legal retort to see the other side of the story, but have been sadly disappointed. Most likely due to the fact that there is no legal ground?

Some contend that if Speedplay sent the letter it must be because they are legally in the right and that rebuilding their pedals can cause serious injury. This is absolutely false. If you understand some mechanical engineering you would know that when a bearing fails due to wear in a low-impact application like pedals the pedal will become gritty thousands of miles before the point of failure. A flat spot will develop in the actual ball or needle inside the bearing. Even under extreme pressures like high pressure hydraulics, bearings do not ‘explode’. Some may crack and have the steel inner balls fall out causing the machinery to wobble and fault out. But pedals are not a high RPM high pressure application.

Let’s just play this out theoretically. Say I sell some really crappy bearings and the bearings fail. Note that I only use the highest quality bearings. Needle bearings from INA. Deep groove ball bearings from VBX, SKS and INA. The worst thing that can happen is the bearings get really notchy and gritty. They begin to move from side-to-side about 1mm. After this point you keep riding for thousands of miles. The bearing finally ‘fails completely’. At the point of failure the pedal does not explode and fall apart. It just becomes really hard to turn. The needles or balls begin to fall out and lock the pedal keeping it from spinning. Any rider will feel this problem long before any serious injury could result from ‘bearing failure’.

Some contend that I am hiding behind anonymity. Total BS. Speedplay knows who I am. My name, address, phone number, etc…. I am putting my neck on the line every time I post something online. Read the letter. According to the letter I must remove any reference to ‘Speedplay’ on anything I have posted. Would you like to post your name and address for me? Get out from behind anonymity yourself? Isn’t everyone anonymous on an online forum. I don’t see anyone posting their real name, address and phone number in their signature here. And yet, Speedplay can track down all of your personal information with their lawyers’ help.

Some contend that Speedplay bearings must be different. Here again BS. After researching with several patent lawyers I have found that Speedplay does not hold one patent on a specific bearing. If they did hold the patent and then actually produced the bearing then surely they would have included that patent number for that bearing in their original letter. The truth is that it takes anywhere from a couple hundred thousand up to close to a million dollars to set up manufacturing a custom bearing. If I went to INA, NBK or any other bearing manufacturer for that matter and asked them to produce a bearing with all new dimensions they would laugh me out of the building. Unless I contract millions of dollars worth of that bearing per year it would not make any financial sense. And Speedplay would now contend that they hold the patent on that bearing making it impossible for them to sell it elsewhere. Even at that point, could the bearing be patented? I would say no. Unless they came up with a bearing that looked and functioned completely different from any other bearing it is just not possible.

As for using the name ‘Speedplay’ in an advertisement is not an infringement on their copyright as long as you differentiate yourself from the OEM. All you need to do is state that they fit Speedplay pedals and that they are aftermarket. Copyright infringement is when you misrepresent your product as genuine OEM parts when they are not. The reason so many auctions are pulled from eBay is due to their VeRO rules. This is not a law. It is just their Modus Operandi. If the legal owner of the original copyright asks for an item to be removed eBay will comply. If Ford asks eBay to stop all auctions that contain the name ‘Ford’ they will pull every auction with ‘Ford’ in it. Even if you state that it is not a Ford OEM product, but fits their vehicle, which is 100% legal, they will pull the auction.

One post said that the rebuild is not $125, but much less. Unless
Speedplay changed their prices in the last couple of years a rebuild on an X1, Zero Ti & LA Ti is over $100. Including shipping to and from the price is around $125. The cost of rebuild on a Stainless model is lower. Why? When everything about them is identicle? They say that you need special tools to rebuild the Ti version. BS. Internally the pedals are identicle including bearings, body, etc..... The only difference is spindle material. Even here, titanium is structurally almost identicle to stainless steel (except weight) and does not require any special treatment.

As I have stated before: “Opinions are like asses. Everyone has one.”

Thanks again to all who have posted positive AND negative responses.

 

[BroDeal]

First time posting at Cycling News...

Thaks for that. It clears up the bearing issue.

Again I am glad you went public with this. The tech industry has suffered too much from these sorts of tactics. For a lot of techies, finding out that a company abuses IP law like this is akin to finding out the company is run by a cabal of child molesters. It makes the thought of giving business to such a company very distasteful. I will be happy to spend my money with a different company.

 

[Polyarmour]

Some contend that Speedplay bearings must be different. Here again BS. After researching with several patent lawyers I have found that Speedplay does not hold one patent on a specific bearing. If they did hold the patent and then actually produced the bearing then surely they would have included that patent number for that bearing in their original letter. The truth is that it takes anywhere from a couple hundred thousand up to close to a million dollars to set up manufacturing a custom bearing. If I went to INA, NBK or any other bearing manufacturer for that matter and asked them to produce a bearing with all new dimensions they would laugh me out of the building. Unless I contract millions of dollars worth of that bearing per year it would not make any financial sense. And Speedplay would now contend that they hold the patent on that bearing making it impossible for them to sell it elsewhere. Even at that point, could the bearing be patented? I would say no. Unless they came up with a bearing that looked and functioned completely different from any other bearing it is just not possible.

Frikinspit thanks for responding in here. Firstly let me say I have no links at all with Speedplay. I think we are all the product of our own experiences and I have spent many years in the product and system design area and have had my own designs copied more times than I can count, (at great expense to me). This of course has given me a perspective on things, which I recognise, not many other people seem to share.

With respect to your comments about the bearing above, correct me if I'm wrong here.

1/. Speedplay are saying that they have a patent on the bearing (or on the use or application of the bearing in that situation)?
2/. You are saying, well how can that be, I can't find the patent number, the bearing companies wouldn't make a special one just for you, how can you patent a bearing anyway?

This reads like you're not really sure what Speedplay's legal status is with respect to that bearing?

Who makes the bearing for Speedplay? Why can't you buy one direct from them?

 

[frikinspit]

Frikinspit thanks for responding in here. Firstly let me say I have no links at all with Speedplay. I think we are all the product of our own experiences and I have spent many years in the product and system design area and have had my own designs copied more times than I can count, (at great expense to me). This of course has given me a perspective on things, which I recognise, not many other people seem to share.

With respect to your comments about the bearing above, correct me if I'm wrong here.

1/. Speedplay are saying that they have a patent on the bearing (or on the use or application of the bearing in that situation)?
2/. You are saying, well how can that be, I can't find the patent number, the bearing companies wouldn't make a special one just for you, how can you patent a bearing anyway?

This reads like you're not really sure what Speedplay's legal status is with respect to that bearing?

Who makes the bearing for Speedplay? Why can't you buy one direct from them?

Polyarmour,

What I was trying to convey was that Speedplay has no legal stand. None at all. I was just going through my thought process and ultimate conclusion.

The original patent for a radial ball bearing expired over 100 years ago. Needle bearings a few years later. The patent for a radial bearing consisting of an outer race, inner race and ball bearings that ride on the two races. Some manufacturers use carriers for the balls. For the needle bearing it consists of an outer race, needles and carrier. Some bearings have shields, seals or are open on both sides. In any case unless anyone designs a bearing that functions completely different from these models and has a different shape it cannot be patented. It does not matter the material or size of the bearing. For example: a company makes a radial ball bearing completely out of ceramic. They cannot patent this. The design and function are the same as the original patent. Or lets say I make a metric ball bearing that is a half size taller and wider than the industry standard. Again the function is the same as any other bearing and cannot be patented.

As for buying the same bearings as Speedplay uses, what beaing do they use? Some have seen the marking NBK on some of their bearing. I believe the 68 series. I have seen different bearings over the years when rebuilding factory stock pedals. Speedplay does not specify what bearing or minimum grade. The bearings I use are rated higher than the NBK 68 series and so why would I use an inferior bearing and pay a higher price at that?

I would understand Speedplay's stand if I were manufacturing spindles or aluminum bowties, but I am not. All the parts are readily available.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Sppedplay, last post for me

I sell SP rebuild kits for $70. No need to mail anything because I am a local bike shop. I have the teeny bearings for the outboard of the pedal but see few if any of these fail.

I think you need to get a lawyer and take legal action instead of making your point on bicycle forums, which just seem to **** people off, if you are so passionate about this.

I use SP, sell SP and will continue, they are good, reliaabe pedals. As for all this other hoopla, as they say, I don't have a dog in that hunt.

-local bike shop owner.

I see I misspeeled Speedplay...

 

[Black Dog]

I sell SP rebuild kits for $70. No need to mail anything because I am a local bike shop. I have the teeny bearings for the outboard of the pedal but see few if any of these fail.

I think you need to get a lawyer and take legal action instead of making your point on bicycle forums, which just seem to **** people off, if you are so passionate about this.

I use SP, sell SP and will continue, they are good, reliaabe pedals. As for all this other hoopla, as they say, I don't have a dog in that hunt.

-local bike shop owner.

I see I misspeeled Speedplay...

Do you think SP is playing fair? Why shouldn't he air this here? Would you have the money to go against SP? Passion does not pay the bills. Do you think that he should just roll over because he can not afford to fight this? Would you, if you were in his situation?

 

[Benotti69]

Thaks for that. It clears up the bearing issue.

Again I am glad you went public with this. The tech industry has suffered too much from these sorts of tactics. For a lot of techies, finding out that a company abuses IP law like this is akin to finding out the company is run by a cabal of child molesters. It makes the thought of giving business to such a company very distasteful. I will be happy to spend my money with a different company.

+1

stick around.

 

[oldborn]

And now we are waiting Speedplay copy machine guy to make an annoucement about Speedgate

BroDeal i would not sleep without shotgun for a while, Speedplay hitman is arround
I will always be a Look pedals guy anyway.

 

[frikinspit]

I sell SP rebuild kits for $70. No need to mail anything because I am a local bike shop. I have the teeny bearings for the outboard of the pedal but see few if any of these fail.

I think you need to get a lawyer and take legal action instead of making your point on bicycle forums, which just seem to **** people off, if you are so passionate about this.

I use SP, sell SP and will continue, they are good, reliaabe pedals. As for all this other hoopla, as they say, I don't have a dog in that hunt.

-local bike shop owner.

I see I misspeeled Speedplay...

First of all, this all began when I posted rebuild instructions from my 15 years of experience rebuilding pedals. Since receiving the 'Cease and Desist' letter from SP I posted a short note explaining why I deleted my instructions. The rest of the cycling community was, to my surprise, very interested and the story spread. Not by me, although I am happy to see such a big response both positive and negative. After hearing all of the back-and-forth conversation I decided to reply here. I am not trying to perpetuate the story here. I am just trying to clear up facts from accusations and assumtions.

I now sell SP rebuild kits for $13 plus shipping which includes the needle bearings, cartridge bearings, o rings, retaining rings.... All the bearings are industrial grade from INA. Made in Germany. I cannot sell them as a kit anymore nor can I reference anything remotely related to SP and so now I just sell them individually in my auctions under the industrial category and the buyer selects the individual parts needed.

This is exactly the reason I began selling rebuild kits. Why does SP charge $40 for just the cartridge bearings and rings? Why do they say that each model, i.e. ZERO, X series, Light Action, fit only one model and that each model uses different parts. Over the years I have rebuilt close to 200 SP pedals from different years and different models. They are all the same internally. The only exceptions are the very first X series with the all aluminum body and the X5 and LA Chromoly. That means that the X1/2, Zero (all models including ti, ss and chromoly) & the Light Action ti and ss are all internally identicle and cross compatible. I have measured them all from various years with a set of industrial micrometers and found that they are identicle. The only change over the years has been to the X1/2. They added a grease port to the end cap. They switched to torx head screws. They added a thin wire retaining ring to the needle bearing. All of these things I went over in my original instructions.

It's one thing to try and make a profit. It is a completely different story lying to the end user about rebuild parts. They claim that you MUST send X1 pedals back for rebuild because they require special tools and treatment. They do not even sell black X1 pedal bodies. They made thier profit from the original sale. There is no need to spew false information in hopes of making further profit from future rebuilds.

Could you imagine a world where you could not modify or rebuild anything? A world where you could only purchase bikes complete from the factory. If you wanted to change wheels or tires you would have to send the bike back to the manufacturer or risk voiding the warranty. You would not be able to change cranks, stems seatposts, etc... The entire cycling market is built around customization. Could you imagine taking your vehicle in for a warranty repair and having it rejected because you changed out the wiper blades or stereo with aftermarket ones thus voiding the warranty on the entire vehicle.

 

[dsut4392]

I now sell SP rebuild kits for $13 plus shipping which includes the needle bearings, cartridge bearings, o rings, retaining rings.... All the bearings are industrial grade from INA. Made in Germany. I cannot sell them as a kit anymore nor can I reference anything remotely related to SP and so now I just sell them individually in my auctions under the industrial category and the buyer selects the individual parts needed.

What kind of weight does a "cease and desist" letter based on completely false premises carry? WE know you can, YOU know you can, SP know you can...what exactly is stopping you?

Fair enough you don't want the grief of being harassed by them, but as a potential future customer of yours, I'm annoyed

 

[Black Dog]

Thanks for the clarification! Greedplay are acting like real A-holes. All of this will hurt sales more than any lost business from your kits. Good for you to put a kit together for a fraction of the cost and for calling SP out on their lies to customers.

First of all, this all began when I posted rebuild instructions from my 15 years of experience rebuilding pedals. Since receiving the 'Cease and Desist' letter from SP I posted a short note explaining why I deleted my instructions. The rest of the cycling community was, to my surprise, very interested and the story spread. Not by me, although I am happy to see such a big response both positive and negative. After hearing all of the back-and-forth conversation I decided to reply here. I am not trying to perpetuate the story here. I am just trying to clear up facts from accusations and assumtions.

I now sell SP rebuild kits for $13 plus shipping which includes the needle bearings, cartridge bearings, o rings, retaining rings.... All the bearings are industrial grade from INA. Made in Germany. I cannot sell them as a kit anymore nor can I reference anything remotely related to SP and so now I just sell them individually in my auctions under the industrial category and the buyer selects the individual parts needed.

This is exactly the reason I began selling rebuild kits. Why does SP charge $40 for just the cartridge bearings and rings? Why do they say that each model, i.e. ZERO, X series, Light Action, fit only one model and that each model uses different parts. Over the years I have rebuilt close to 200 SP pedals from different years and different models. They are all the same internally. The only exceptions are the very first X series with the all aluminum body and the X5 and LA Chromoly. That means that the X1/2, Zero (all models including ti, ss and chromoly) & the Light Action ti and ss are all internally identicle and cross compatible. I have measured them all from various years with a set of industrial micrometers and found that they are identicle. The only change over the years has been to the X1/2. They added a grease port to the end cap. They switched to torx head screws. They added a thin wire retaining ring to the needle bearing. All of these things I went over in my original instructions.

It's one thing to try and make a profit. It is a completely different story lying to the end user about rebuild parts. They claim that you MUST send X1 pedals back for rebuild because they require special tools and treatment. They do not even sell black X1 pedal bodies. They made thier profit from the original sale. There is no need to spew false information in hopes of making further profit from future rebuilds.

Could you imagine a world where you could not modify or rebuild anything? A world where you could only purchase bikes complete from the factory. If you wanted to change wheels or tires you would have to send the bike back to the manufacturer or risk voiding the warranty. You would not be able to change cranks, stems seatposts, etc... The entire cycling market is built around customization. Could you imagine taking your vehicle in for a warranty repair and having it rejected because you changed out the wiper blades or stereo with aftermarket ones thus voiding the warranty on the entire vehicle.

 

[frikinspit]

What kind of weight does a "cease and desist" letter based on completely false premises carry? WE know you can, YOU know you can, SP know you can...what exactly is stopping you?

Fair enough you don't want the grief of being harassed by them, but as a potential future customer of yours, I'm annoyed

I understand your frustration. It is not as simple as 'legal or not'. The reason I cannot sell them in kit form is because of the exact reason laid out in my earlier post. Speedplay will take advantage of (and has many times in the past to me) the eBay VeRO rule and have my auction pulled. Just the mere mention of Speedplay is enough to get your auction cancelled if Speedplay asks eBay to do so. I can go ahead and set up a website, register a business license, etc.... We'll see. Maybe in the future.

 

[dsut4392]

I understand your frustration. It is not as simple as 'legal or not'. The reason I cannot sell them in kit form is because of the exact reason laid out in my earlier post. Speedplay will take advantage of (and has many times in the past to me) the eBay VeRO rule and have my auction pulled. Just the mere mention of Speedplay is enough to get your auction cancelled if Speedplay asks eBay to do so. I can go ahead and set up a website, register a business license, etc.... We'll see. Maybe in the future.

Ugh, eBay...one anti-competitive company doing backhanders for another, say no more. I use them because it's easy, but feel dirty afterwards...

How about places like RoadbikeReview classifieds? Enough threads like the present one should drive a bit of search-engine traffic to whatever alternative marketplace you find...

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Do you think SP is playing fair? Why shouldn't he air this here? Would you have the money to go against SP? Passion does not pay the bills. Do you think that he should just roll over because he can not afford to fight this? Would you, if you were in his situation?

Read the post, I said if he is passionate about this, get an attorney, if he is so correct, the lawsuit will be contingency, won't cost him a $dime and he'll win, get paid, get his rights back, blah, blah.

I don't know the entire situation. I have received a call from the owner of SP and he assures me that there is more to this that what you read here or in other bicycle forum posts by mostly anonymous posters.

If he wants to air his laundry here, fine and dandy, I'm not saying he shouldn't but as a guy that sells stuff, I use the best products IMHO. SP pedals are one of them, you know the pedal? Not the politics.

Read my post, I said if he is so passionate he should get an attorney and do this correctly, not just stuff on forums.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

First of all, this all began when I posted rebuild instructions from my 15 years of experience rebuilding pedals. Since receiving the 'Cease and Desist' letter from SP I posted a short note explaining why I deleted my instructions. The rest of the cycling community was, to my surprise, very interested and the story spread. Not by me, although I am happy to see such a big response both positive and negative. After hearing all of the back-and-forth conversation I decided to reply here. I am not trying to perpetuate the story here. I am just trying to clear up facts from accusations and assumtions.

I now sell SP rebuild kits for $13 plus shipping which includes the needle bearings, cartridge bearings, o rings, retaining rings.... All the bearings are industrial grade from INA. Made in Germany. I cannot sell them as a kit anymore nor can I reference anything remotely related to SP and so now I just sell them individually in my auctions under the industrial category and the buyer selects the individual parts needed.

This is exactly the reason I began selling rebuild kits. Why does SP charge $40 for just the cartridge bearings and rings? Why do they say that each model, i.e. ZERO, X series, Light Action, fit only one model and that each model uses different parts. Over the years I have rebuilt close to 200 SP pedals from different years and different models. They are all the same internally. The only exceptions are the very first X series with the all aluminum body and the X5 and LA Chromoly. That means that the X1/2, Zero (all models including ti, ss and chromoly) & the Light Action ti and ss are all internally identicle and cross compatible. I have measured them all from various years with a set of industrial micrometers and found that they are identicle. The only change over the years has been to the X1/2. They added a grease port to the end cap. They switched to torx head screws. They added a thin wire retaining ring to the needle bearing. All of these things I went over in my original instructions.

It's one thing to try and make a profit. It is a completely different story lying to the end user about rebuild parts. They claim that you MUST send X1 pedals back for rebuild because they require special tools and treatment. They do not even sell black X1 pedal bodies. They made thier profit from the original sale. There is no need to spew false information in hopes of making further profit from future rebuilds.

Could you imagine a world where you could not modify or rebuild anything? A world where you could only purchase bikes complete from the factory. If you wanted to change wheels or tires you would have to send the bike back to the manufacturer or risk voiding the warranty. You would not be able to change cranks, stems seatposts, etc... The entire cycling market is built around customization. Could you imagine taking your vehicle in for a warranty repair and having it rejected because you changed out the wiper blades or stereo with aftermarket ones thus voiding the warranty on the entire vehicle.

Why on earth are you taking this to the 'streets', and not taking a legal path. I'll bet there are more than a few attorneys that would take this case on contingency basis and it wouldn't cost you a $dime. To limit yourself to bike forums, as if that will solve your problems with SP, is silly.

Unless of course you don't have as strong a case as these posts imply.