Sportsmanship: a comparative case study

[Eshnar]

Uhm, read the topic: it's all about comparing the 2 sports. Whether or not you think that is possible I don't care. If you don't feel like comparing the 2 sports then get out of this thread and don't post?

What's the situation:

-Someone broke an oral agreement between teams and officials with no legal binding.

Yeah, that can never happen in cycling.

*cough* Vino *cough*

Did ALL the teams agree? If so, whoever broke the agreement is wrong. Quite straightforward.

 

[El Pistolero]

He won't be punished, indeed, as he didn't break any rule.

But we're talking of sportsmanship, not bad ruling.

In both situations they used the misfortune of their opponents to get a personal advantage. If you're cool with the Contador case you should also be cool with this otherwise you're acting like a hypocrite in my opinion.

Did ALL the teams agree? If so, whoever broke the agreement is wrong. Quite straightforward.

All the riders that rode the Tour in 2007 signed a contract with ASO that they wouldn't take doping and pay their yearly salary if they get caught anyway. Some riders paid that prize, but Vino refused and took it to court. The contract was not legally binding and he didn't need to pay even though he agreed in the first place. Same situation as with this football player don't you think? Yet Hitch doesn't mind supporting Vino.

This is what this thread is about isn't it? Comparing cases from cycling with the football incident? Vino is a hero here, those people shouldn't villainize Luiz Adriano now.

 

[Eshnar]

In both situations they used the misfortune of their opponents to get a personal advantage. If you're cool with the Contador case you should also be cool with this otherwise you're acting like a hypocrite in my opinion.



All the riders that rode the Tour in 2007 signed a contract with ASO that they wouldn't take doping and pay their yearly salary if they get caught anyway. Some riders paid that prize, but Vino refused and took it to court. The contract was not legally binding and he didn't need to pay even though he agreed in the first place. Same situation as with this football player don't you think? Yet Hitch doesn't mind supporting Vino.

So Vino is ethically wrong (in my view ofc)
But AC was absolutely right.

 

[The Hitch]

Uhm, read the topic: it's all about comparing the 2 sports.

No the thread is about 2 incidents. Thats Schlecks chain in 2010, not your grudge against Vino denying Gilbert 3rd place at 2010 lbl or ebh or any of that.

 

[Netserk]

http://shakhtar.com/en/news/24590

Apparently Adriano disagrees with El Pistolero...

 

[El Pistolero]

http://shakhtar.com/en/news/24590

Apparently Adriano disagrees with El Pistolero...

Ah, a public apology.

Greg Lemond once apologized to Amstrong because he accused him of doping. Does that mean Greg Lemond is wrong now? Or that he was pressured to make that apology by someone bigger than him? *cough* Trek *cough* *cough* Armstrong *cough*

I hope you have better arguments.

No the thread is about 2 incidents. Thats Schlecks chain in 2010, not your grudge against Vino denying Gilbert 3rd place at 2010 lbl or ebh or any of that.

Yes, 2 incidents from 2 different sports compared to each other. I don't need to explain you the meaning of the word comparative do I? Where does it state I cannot use an analogy as an argument?

 

[The Hitch]

Another difference between the 2 is that chaingate cost andy the tour. This goal probably didnt affect the outcome much in a game that wasnt even that important.

Yet there is such an outcry. Why? cos everyone can see it was messed up

Where does it state I cannot use an analogy as an argument?

You can use what you want, im just telling you that justifying what happened on Tuesday with "They attacked when Ebh took a **** in the Tour of Oman" doesn't make any sense.

The 2 incidents have no similarities.

 

[Siriuscat]

If you draw your sword first then drop it....tough!! Abandony Schleck got what they deserved after their shenanigans on the earlier stages Alberto was spot on.

What's this other thing you're talking about?? Whats soccer..

 

[silverrocket]

I think Adriano was wrong, but the other team deserved to be scored on anyway for delaying the game with such a pathetic "injury". Guy falls down in a crumpled heap like his face had been melted off with acid, game stops, guy jumps up and is back in the game like nothing happened.

Isn't THAT a violation of "fair play"?

That's almost as bad as intentionally crashing one's track bike just to get a chance to redo the start, when it is in the spirit of "fair play" that the re-start rule was ever devised.

 

[El Pistolero]

Another difference between the 2 is that chaingate cost andy the tour. This goal probably didnt affect the outcome much in a game that wasnt even that important.

Yet there is such an outcry. Why? cos everyone can see it was messed up



You can use what you want, im just telling you that justifying what happened on Tuesday with "They attacked when Ebh took a **** in the Tour of Oman" doesn't make any sense.

The 2 incidents have no similarities.

There was no outcry, or a small one, when Andy got time on Contador at the cobbled stage. Yet there was a big outcry when Contador did the same to Andy.

You tell me why. Double standards? Or people being stupid? According to Einstein it's the latter.

Some football fans could kill each other because they lost a match. I'm not sure why you're even using them as an argument. They make a big fuss about a sport and are willing to go very far for that. How many football riots have we witnessed already? I wouldn't dare go to a big football match without a whole police force guarding the safety of everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8_QpNue5S8

What football player are you going to blame for being unfair here? Such a big outcry, what did everybody see that was so messed up? Or are you willing to admit football fans make a big fuss about nothing.

 

[Parrulo]

I think Adriano was wrong, but the other team deserved to be scored on anyway for delaying the game with such a pathetic "injury". Guy falls down in a crumpled heap like his face had been melted off with acid, game stops, guy jumps up and is back in the game like nothing happened.

Isn't THAT a violation of "fair play"?

That's almost as bad as intentionally crashing one's track bike just to get a chance to redo the start, when it is in the spirit of "fair play" that the re-start rule was ever devised.

indeed, what i saw was a guy faking an injury to stop the game and maybe try to get one of the shaktar guys expelled for an aggression and then being but hurt because the other team didn't have any fair play. . . . honestly as much as i like football, the sport is filled with false fair play and hypocrisy.

you go luiz adriano.

as for contador, lol this again. still have fire in your tummy for things that happened 2 and a half years ago christian?

 

[Magnus]

indeed, what i saw was a guy faking an injury to stop the game and maybe try to get one of the shaktar guys expelled for an aggression and then being but hurt because the other team didn't have any fair play. . . . honestly as much as i like football, the sport is filled with false fair play and hypocrisy.

But why should he try to stop the game? His team had the ball. And how can you tell he wasn't elbowed in solar plexus?

 

[silverrocket]

But why should he try to stop the game? His team had the ball. And how can you tell he wasn't elbowed in solar plexus?

The video clearly show that he collided face-into-shoulder with the other guy, and was holding his face as he flopped around on the ground. Video also shows him smiling as soon as he stood up. His "crippling face injury" was quite fleeting, wasn't it?!

 

[DominicDecoco]

Not my problem they're fools.

Everyone with a little ounce of vision saw that he was going for the goal to score. They didn't even try to do anything, probably because they thought the referee would back them up, I call that being lazy. I've even read interviews that a player of the Danish team thought the Ukrainian team would give them a goal for free after this. Lmao. No wonder they lost.

Anyway, I really don't care about football because of all the faking that goes on to try and get the referee to hand out penalties, yellow cards or red cards. Just play ball and take a hit once in a while.

This ignorance is baffling. There are no words.

 

[El Pistolero]

This ignorance is baffling. There are no words.

Hilarious post. Though not nearly as hilarious as the bad acting of that player on the Danish team. Sour losers.

Don't they teach you not to trust strangers in Denmark? Just wondering. This was a move the Greeks themselves would be proud of.

 

[The Hitch]

Your constant attempts to sound like the worlds foremost expert on ancient history because you did a module on it in an undergraduate degree at your local university, really do not impress as many people as you think.

 

[phanatic]

It's more like Gadret than Contador.

 

[pdluz7]

Contador was right. Andy attacked wrong.

 

[movingtarget]

The Shaktar player did the wrong thing which is why he is up before the match committee. It was a stupid thing to do, so was celebrating the goal but as someone else said, there is so much acting now in football that it's hard to watch. In cycling, attacking through feed zones is supposed to be a no no but it happens, used to happen more. As for chaingate, you had the Cancellara neutralised stage which was also a joke. I think Schleck has to cop it, these incidents or similar ones are not so rare. If he punctured instead of having a chain problem no one would have waited. Interesting though that the much maligned Wiggins waited for Evans in the Tour's tack stage and asked the other riders to wait except for Rolland who supposedly had not heard what happened. I think the decision should left to the individual. There will always be opportunities for payback later.

 

[Netserk]

the shaktar player did the wrong thing which is why he is up before the match committee. It was a stupid thing to do, so was celebrating the goal but as someone else said, there is so much acting now in football that it's hard to watch. In cycling, attacking through feed zones is supposed to be a no no but it happens, used to happen more. As for chaingate, you had the cancellara neutralised stage which was also a joke. I think schleck has to cop it, these incidents or similar ones are not so rare. If he punctured instead of having a chain problem no one would have waited. Interesting though that the much maligned wiggins waited for evans in the tour's tack stage and asked the other riders to wait except for rolland who supposedly had not heard what happened. I think the decision should left to the individual. There will always be opportunities for payback later.

+ 1

 

[Arnout]

The Shaktar player did the wrong thing which is why he is up before the match committee. It was a stupid thing to do, so was celebrating the goal but as someone else said, there is so much acting now in football that it's hard to watch. In cycling, attacking through feed zones is supposed to be a no no but it happens, used to happen more. As for chaingate, you had the Cancellara neutralised stage which was also a joke. I think Schleck has to cop it, these incidents or similar ones are not so rare. If he punctured instead of having a chain problem no one would have waited. Interesting though that the much maligned Wiggins waited for Evans in the Tour's tack stage and asked the other riders to wait except for Rolland who supposedly had not heard what happened. I think the decision should left to the individual. There will always be opportunities for payback later.

Why was it the wrong thing? It was not against the rules, was it? Who then determines what is right and wrong? Certainly not some sort of rule that talks about sportive behavior, in which case his action can only be valued after the event happened.

I simply don't see how you can demand sportive behavior, as it is very subjective. It's up to the individual to determine their behavior and as soon as other people are gonna judge what is sportive and what is not, the behavior is not sportive anymore by definition, but rather a simple follow-the-rule action.

 

[Magnus]

The video clearly show that he collided face-into-shoulder with the other guy, and was holding his face as he flopped around on the ground. Video also shows him smiling as soon as he stood up. His "crippling face injury" was quite fleeting, wasn't it?!

I only saw this video:
http://smotri.com/video/view/?id=v2315936a652

Don't know what you saw. The way I see it, it's chest/elbow not face/shoulder. Hiding your face seems like a pretty normal reaction when hurt, even if not hurt in the face. But that's completely beside the point. FCN didn't gain anything by the game being stopped in that situation since they were in control of the ball.