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Spring Classic in England?

Mar 4, 2016
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After the success of the stages in England, there is already talk of bringing the Tour back to England in the future. Does anyone else think that they could make a pretty decent spring classic on the parcours of stage 2, or in the lake district?

It would be a bit Amstel Gold Race like, good for the climbers and the punchers. Do you think the English would turn out to watch for a classic? or are they only interested in the Tour and the Olympics...?

I guess scheduling would be difficult, but they could put it on the same day as the Scheldeprijs.
 
Ignore the Lake district,

North Yorkshire/County Durham/Northumberland

More options, but no tourist cash/local government interest.

(Middlesborough has the nationals this year and its going to be a flat sprint)
 
I know the forum gives a lot of love to Yorkshire, but doesn't it already have... the Tour de Yorkshire? I liked the race last year and all of the above sounds like it would make another good edition of that race.

Obviously it's not in England, but talking of British one-day races, this year is the second Velothon Wales (1.1), and both years Sky have ignored it. Why is that? It seems like a chance for an easy win for one of their secondary guys, not to mention that Thomas and Rowe are actually Welsh.
 
I designed a cobbled madness stage in West Yorkshire as part of my Tour of Britain in the Race Design Thread here which is about as brutal as possible; even with only half those obstacles you could have a good race. The alternative I thought would be to have a Manchester variation on the Ride London format, riding out to a circuit including Swiss Hill and then returning to the city.

Britain is a country which is full of untapped Classics potential. And at the moment cycling is in vogue and the fans would absolutely turn out in their droves if they marketed it right and got a useful crowd to it (the Velothon Wales, unfortunately, did not do so - many of us on the forum had no idea it was even going on, and the field drawn was decidedly average). But placing it in the middle of the spring season may not be ideal as the calendar is already relatively crowded there with established warmup races, and placing it after the main star attraction events would only lead to weakened fields with many top classics stars resting up. An ideal would be maybe a Trittico Lombarda type group of races clustered around the Ride London race, shoring up the field at the .HC and .1 level (I think the Ride London race benefits from being .HC as the mix of teams with motivated national and ProConti teams who've not done the Tour and/or are building up to their autumn peaks alongside some big guns and new stagiares wanting to showcase themselves has resulted in much better racing than we would likely see from the same parcours at the WT level) and allowing the races to piggyback one another for advertising and audience (especially as they can promote the races in the Tour de France coverage for a month prior to the races, ensuring maximum potential audience).

The other thing is that the Tour of Britain, I've maintained for a while, being located in September which in most years backs onto the Worlds (not this year of course due to a) Qatar and b) accommodating the Olympics), is in a perfect position to make itself the stage race par excellence for the Classics man. There is the possibility in Britain to make brutal cobbled stages (like mine above), saw-toothed Ardennes-alike stages, mid-length climbs but not MTFs a la Lombardia in the Lake District or Wales (in theory also in Scotland, but the race doesn't often go into the less populated but terrain-wise more interesting parts of that part of the UK), some punishing long and windy stages, and the six-man teams make it hard to control, but it wouldn't have to get repetitive. Given the nature of most Worlds courses, it could provide a very genuine tune-up opportunity for almost any type of Worlds, which can ensure a good field. A single day race could always look to break away from that, or to ape a particularly successful stage in the race so that popular run-ins can remain on the calendar without hampering the possibilities for the Tour of Britain, much like the Spanish races often had their appended events (the Subida al Naranco one-day race before the Vuelta a Asturias, or the Klasika Primavera Amorebieta a day after País Vasco finishes).
 
PJFXhsn.png


Ok, I went a bit crazy logistics wise on this one. 4 different loops of the city of Bath, the first one and the last one being the same 37.7km loop. So, in essence, 5 loops. The first is 37.7km; the second 62.3km; the third 17.8km; the fourth a monster 67.2km; and the last as previously said is the same as the first one. Most lengths are approximations.

Some stats:

Length: 220.7km
Height gained: 4333m
Steepest point: 15% at kilometre 52 and 139
Hardest Climb: Lansdown Hill (East) 2.5km at 8.2% although most climbs are around 1-2km at about 7-10%.
 
OpjN4uS.png


Much easier start but there isn't a metre of flat from 133 to 175, and some hard climbs.

Climbs from 133 onwards:
Llyn Syberi: 1km @ 11%
Bryn Fran: 3.5km @ 8.7%
Gosen Farm: 2.5km @ 9%
Maes y Bryn: 3.4km @ 5.1%
Pant Siglan: 2.5km @ 6.4%
Nant Y Rhiw: 3.3km @ 8.2%

Probably a bit too short, but shouldn't be too hard to add a hilly 50km mid section to beef the race up a bit.
 
Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
I designed a cobbled madness stage in West Yorkshire as part of my Tour of Britain in the Race Design Thread here which is about as brutal as possible; even with only half those obstacles you could have a good race. The alternative I thought would be to have a Manchester variation on the Ride London format, riding out to a circuit including Swiss Hill and then returning to the city.

Britain is a country which is full of untapped Classics potential. And at the moment cycling is in vogue and the fans would absolutely turn out in their droves if they marketed it right and got a useful crowd to it (the Velothon Wales, unfortunately, did not do so - many of us on the forum had no idea it was even going on, and the field drawn was decidedly average). But placing it in the middle of the spring season may not be ideal as the calendar is already relatively crowded there with established warmup races, and placing it after the main star attraction events would only lead to weakened fields with many top classics stars resting up. An ideal would be maybe a Trittico Lombarda type group of races clustered around the Ride London race, shoring up the field at the .HC and .1 level (I think the Ride London race benefits from being .HC as the mix of teams with motivated national and ProConti teams who've not done the Tour and/or are building up to their autumn peaks alongside some big guns and new stagiares wanting to showcase themselves has resulted in much better racing than we would likely see from the same parcours at the WT level) and allowing the races to piggyback one another for advertising and audience (especially as they can promote the races in the Tour de France coverage for a month prior to the races, ensuring maximum potential audience).

The other thing is that the Tour of Britain, I've maintained for a while, being located in September which in most years backs onto the Worlds (not this year of course due to a) Qatar and b) accommodating the Olympics), is in a perfect position to make itself the stage race par excellence for the Classics man. There is the possibility in Britain to make brutal cobbled stages (like mine above), saw-toothed Ardennes-alike stages, mid-length climbs but not MTFs a la Lombardia in the Lake District or Wales (in theory also in Scotland, but the race doesn't often go into the less populated but terrain-wise more interesting parts of that part of the UK), some punishing long and windy stages, and the six-man teams make it hard to control, but it wouldn't have to get repetitive. Given the nature of most Worlds courses, it could provide a very genuine tune-up opportunity for almost any type of Worlds, which can ensure a good field. A single day race could always look to break away from that, or to ape a particularly successful stage in the race so that popular run-ins can remain on the calendar without hampering the possibilities for the Tour of Britain, much like the Spanish races often had their appended events (the Subida al Naranco one-day race before the Vuelta a Asturias, or the Klasika Primavera Amorebieta a day after País Vasco finishes).

Yes yes.

The caveat with Trooper Lane (along with some of the other more brutal cobbled climbs around here) is that crowds would really really want to assemble...and they just couldn't.....unless the land on either side was opened up (quite possible I guess). The other thing that gets in the way is that riders might rebel. I remember the TOB (I think) coming up Shibden Wall. Riders carrying their bikes and making obscene gestures at the race director :D

Anyway LS :)
 
I was thinking of submitting a classics type race set in Dublin to the race design thread. We have lots of wall-type climbs in the outer suburbs and plenty of rough cobbles in the city centre. It'd be worth it just to see the taxi drivers' heads explode when they hear the city centre is closed for a bike race. Would put you Johnny come lately, mass start banning, secret time trial riding upstarts in your place
 
Re:

Brullnux said:
PJFXhsn.png


Ok, I went a bit crazy logistics wise on this one. 4 different loops of the city of Bath, the first one and the last one being the same 37.7km loop. So, in essence, 5 loops. The first is 37.7km; the second 62.3km; the third 17.8km; the fourth a monster 67.2km; and the last as previously said is the same as the first one. Most lengths are approximations.

Some stats:

Length: 220.7km
Height gained: 4333m
Steepest point: 15% at kilometre 52 and 139
Hardest Climb: Lansdown Hill (East) 2.5km at 8.2% although most climbs are around 1-2km at about 7-10%.
I've often wondered if there were room for maybe two or three Ardennes warm up classics that could run in the UK while the cobble classics were on - they wouldn't compete with the cobbles, but could be run on any 'off' days, and serve as rides for puncheurs.

Obviously it would never happen, but definitely think you could do a great Bath Bristol effort (and even throw Wells into the mix as well), possibly a 'Jurassic classic' along the Dorset coast, maybe taking in Exeter some of Dartmoor, and then finish with a Brighton-London race across the South Downs, maybe finishing up at the top of Crystal Palace.

I know it's a bit Southern based, but just bits of the country I know - but also there are some decent population centres there, which might help the economics of the race, plus it's all doable for cycling teams that need to get back through the Chunnel to Belgium!
 
Re:

Swifty's Cakes said:
Pembrokeshire or Devon/Cornwall. Windy as hell and loads of short steep climbs. Could have a brilliant race around the coastline

I remember my fairly recent tour of Wales. Lots of 16% stuff around Fishguard. Cycling towards Solva (not far from St. David's) there is a descent to the coast which is initially sheltered by a hill on the left hand side. Half way down, the road becomes exposed to the wind and there is a sign that car drivers should beware of bikes. As soon as the wind hit, I was almost in the middle of the road.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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You could always set up a top one-day race in England, I guess good crowds would turn out and so would top pro teams if the event is "big" enough (WorldTour status, serious media exposure, etc) Trouble is you just cannot create a "classic" overnight. It took decades to turn Roubaix, Flanders, San Remo, Lombardia and LBL into monuments. Took fifty years to Amstel to finally start being taken seriously -not so along ago, it was still seen by most on the continent as some kind of consolation prize. Thus, the English "classic" would be more the equivalent of the Montreal GP or the Japan Cup than anything else. You cannot buy history and you cannot buy prestige. GP Frankfurt/ Henninger Turm, for instance, tried very hard for years and never quite managed to do so.
 
Re: Re:

Tank Engine said:
Swifty's Cakes said:
Pembrokeshire or Devon/Cornwall. Windy as hell and loads of short steep climbs. Could have a brilliant race around the coastline

I remember my fairly recent tour of Wales. Lots of 16% stuff around Fishguard. Cycling towards Solva (not far from St. David's) there is a descent to the coast which is initially sheltered by a hill on the left hand side. Half way down, the road becomes exposed to the wind and there is a sign that car drivers should beware of bikes. As soon as the wind hit, I was almost in the middle of the road.
I go there every year. The section to the south of Solva that goes through Newgale, Druidstone, Little and Broad Haven is my favourite ride in Britain.
 
Re:

ChetBoulanger said:
Trouble is you just cannot create a "classic" overnight.
...
You cannot buy history and you cannot buy prestige.

True but Strade Bianche has become a notable race in a short period of time - there was a good Inner Ring post on it last week: http://inrng.com/2016/03/strade-bianche-recipe/ - conclusions were:

  • exploit the local geography and use local features. A race on ordinary roads means an ordinary race
  • borrow from the local history. The finish in the hilltop town Siena can be mimicked by arrivals next to local landmarks
  • organic growth that builds on existing events helps and patience is required to make it work, a three year plan is not long enough
  • why not start with a popular mass participation event? If the course is challenging and people travel to take part then the chances are it builds the foundation for a durable pro race
  • Add a women‘s race. The Strade Bianche is for men and women and perhaps the UCI should be admitting new events to the World Tour after asking what they’re doing for women’s cycling?