Sprinting on your hoods??

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Jul 11, 2009
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fatandfast said:
sorry 53 it was dse.sorry again
Ummmmmm........apology accepted????????? :confused:

I know some women cyclists who are smart effective racers. But for some reason when they are in a womans cycling race they just put the brakes on. Watching the Australian champs this year was the single most boring thing I have ever done, even a carton of beer couldn't fix it. They just sat there and looked at each other for hours!

I'm willing to bet that the sprint happend at about 3kmph and the extra control gained from sprinting in the drops was not needed.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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Runitout said:
I think it's fine if you're seated the whole time and just turning on the hurt. If you need to jump out of the saddle it's ****house. You have no leverage countering your legs.
Yep. I was thinking about how I wanted to reply but this is it so I second it.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Were you into bike racing at the time? I'm glad there were no forums back then, the war would have made todays bickering seem tame.
I've never understood all the fuss. Saronni was going to win that one either way.
 
Nov 24, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Oh yeah, now I remember why I used to dislike Greg.
what did he do wrong?

moving to the front when Boyer was out front?

But did you see the speend he and especially Saroni came past Boyer?
 
Jul 11, 2009
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Skip Madness said:
Yes, I think you do need to say more.

God, there's some vile sexism on this board.
Well I did, if you could bare scrolling down the page.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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I did; but I hardly think that some half-baked analysis of one race and a sarcastically presumptive assessment of another can be described as expanding on your original, shallow and bigoted point.
 
Jul 11, 2009
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Skip Madness said:
I did; but I hardly think that some half-baked analysis of one race and a sarcastically presumptive assessment of another can be described as expanding on your original, shallow and bigoted point.
It was an example. I could have picked any edition of of that race. Did you happen to watch it? Do you watch/participate in women’s cycling from up on your high horse?

I am not trying to imply that womens cycling is somehow inferior to mens cycling because of mens or womens physical characteristics. I am a fan of cycling, wether or not the cyclists involved have balls or not does not bother me (just so long as they dont have just one) It just appears to the viewer that womens racing has underdeveloped tactics. All to often races end with a rider riding off mid race and everyone staring at each other. Please see the Australian womens crit title as a case in point.

Also, chances are If someone is winning a mass sprint on the hoods you can safely assume that the sprint was far from competitive, that is bike racing not sarcasm.
 
Nov 24, 2009
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Skip Madness said:
Yes, I think you do need to say more.

God, there's some vile sexism on this board.
to be fair to 53, all sports have the divide, I am pretty certain he didn't mean it fully. But at the basis of irony is truth. Or else it just isn't funny.

but on a serious note womens cycling is a minority within a minority sport, the quality in a bunch field is always going to be stratified...
 
Jul 24, 2009
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53 x 11 said:
All to often races end with a rider riding off mid race and everyone staring at each other. Please see the Australian womens crit title as a case in point.
When your case in point is the Australian women's crit title, you aren't working from the widest of frame of reference.
Also, chances are If someone is winning a mass sprint on the hoods you can safely assume that the sprint was far from competitive, that is bike racing not sarcasm.
She beat Bronzini, Hosking and Gilmore. That is competitive.

You see, when people cite examples of men winning on the hoods as earlier in the thread, it's "amazing." When women do it, it's because women's cycling isn't competitive.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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oldxer said:
I've never understood all the fuss. Saronni was going to win that one either way.
Big GMaC said:
what did he do wrong?

moving to the front when Boyer was out front?

But did you see the speend he and especially Saroni came past Boyer?
Uh oh here we go.:D
A lot of people at the time, me included thought that Greg should have marked Saronni and tried to wait his move until Saronni started the sprint (or anyone else). As it was Greg wound up giving Saronni the perfect leadout. It was uphill and from a long way out, but Boyer was still going strong, I believe he wound up 10th maybe. I think that it wasn't the start of bad blood between them but only the most public display.
 
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Hugh Januss said:
Were you into bike racing at the time? I'm glad there were no forums back then, the war would have made todays bickering seem tame.
No, I didn't start riding until 1992. I followed cycling a little in the 80's because of Greg, but didn't go full bore until I started riding.
 
Jul 11, 2009
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Skip Madness said:
When your case in point is the Australian women's crit title, you aren't working from the widest of frame of reference.

She beat Bronzini, Hosking and Gilmore. That is competitive.

You see, when people cite examples of men winning on the hoods as earlier in the thread, it's "amazing." When women do it, it's because women's cycling isn't competitive.
I was siting evidence that I thought you may have witnessed, sorry for that, I should have cobbled it together from cyclingnews reports.

Did you read my posts by the way? Where have I said that anything was amazing and that women’s cycling wasn’t competitive? My point was about tactics NOT strength.

A race does not have to be fast to be interesting but there has to be some excitement for the viewer.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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53 x 11 said:
I was siting evidence that I thought you may have witnessed, sorry for that, I should have cobbled it together from cyclingnews reports.
And yet you're prepared to make a judgement on Leleivyte's sprint from... a photo from a Cycling News report.
Did you read my posts by the way? Where have I said that anything was amazing and that women’s cycling wasn’t competitive?
chances are If someone is winning a mass sprint on the hoods you can safely assume that the sprint was far from competitive
Earlier in the thread others were talking about Cancellara's "amazing" stage win on the hoods. Presumably you can dismiss this by saying, "Men's cycling... need I say more" too.
My point was about tactics NOT strength.
chances are If someone is winning a mass sprint on the hoods you can safely assume that the sprint was far from competitive
This point appears to relate to strength, not tactics. In any case, you're drawing assumptions about a race you haven't seen in order to fit them in with your view of women's cycling.
A race does not have to be fast to be interesting but there has to be some excitement for the viewer.
Which plenty of women's races provide.
 
Jul 11, 2009
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Skip Madness said:
And yet you're prepared to make a judgement on Leleivyte's sprint from... a photo from a Cycling News report.


Earlier in the thread others were talking about Cancellara's "amazing" stage win on the hoods. Presumably you can dismiss this by saying, "Men's cycling... need I say more" too.


This point appears to relate to strength, not tactics. In any case, you're drawing assumptions about a race you haven't seen in order to fit them in with your view of women's cycling.

Which plenty of women's races provide.

Others made the point about Canc, not me and at no point did I support it. I do happen think that Canc's win was a good one but that was only because he attacked a 200 strong peloton, choosing the perfect moment in the closing 200 kms of the stage and held on for the win as multiple teams chased as hard as they could.

My point about sprinting on the hoods is directed at both mens and womens racing. Just because you mentioned some names does not necessarily make the race competitive. Those insipid Australian titles happened to have multiple world champions in them, it certainly didn’t help the viewer.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Uh oh here we go.:D
A lot of people at the time, me included thought that Greg should have marked Saronni and tried to wait his move until Saronni started the sprint (or anyone else). As it was Greg wound up giving Saronni the perfect leadout. It was uphill and from a long way out, but Boyer was still going strong, I believe he wound up 10th maybe. I think that it wasn't the start of bad blood between them but only the most public display.
Waiting for the sprint against Saronni would not have been a high percentage strategy. His only chance was to try to break Saronni with an extended effort on the climb as he did break Kelly. Boyer's effort was impressive and sure by the book you could say that waiting to counter would have been the right team thing to do. But the reality is that the contenders probably weren't very concerned with Boyer and were just playing out the race amongst themselves. Anyway I'm more of a Saronni fan than a Lemond/Boyer partisan.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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Skip Madness said:
And yet you're prepared to make a judgement on Leleivyte's sprint from... a photo from a Cycling News report.


Earlier in the thread others were talking about Cancellara's "amazing" stage win on the hoods. Presumably you can dismiss this by saying, "Men's cycling... need I say more" too.


This point appears to relate to strength, not tactics. In any case, you're drawing assumptions about a race you haven't seen in order to fit them in with your view of women's cycling.

Which plenty of women's races provide.
I don't mean to be sexist but I have watched a LOT of women's racing and I have to agree with 53x11 - there is just not nearly as much attacking and aggressive riding in women's racing for whatever reason.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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BikeCentric said:
I don't mean to be sexist but I have watched a LOT of women's racing and I have to agree with 53x11 - there is just not nearly as much attacking and aggressive riding in women's racing for whatever reason.
Well that's anecdotal. I've heard and read a lot of criticism levelled at women's racing for precisely the opposite reason (ie. there's too much attacking because they're all bimbos who don't understand how to use teamwork and strategy etc.).

Besides which, it's one thing to have a loose opinion formed on experience - that's fine as far as it's applicable. But it's another to glibly dismiss the circumstances of a race one hasn't seen as being sub-standard because they're women, not least based on watching the Aussie championships (which with all due respect is hardly the zenith of the sport - nor is Qatar, but the level is much higher).

The vast majority of flat stages at the men's stage races are pretty dull, but as I pointed out before no-one says, "Men's cycling... need I say more." Stuff which passes in men's cycling as part of the sport can't be left without comment in women's cycling, drawing it into some grand narrative about the inferiority of the women's sport.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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Skip Madness said:
Well that's anecdotal. I've heard and read a lot of criticism levelled at women's racing for precisely the opposite reason (ie. there's too much attacking because they're all bimbos who don't understand how to use teamwork and strategy etc.).

Besides which, it's one thing to have a loose opinion formed on experience - that's fine as far as it's applicable. But it's another to glibly dismiss the circumstances of a race one hasn't seen as being sub-standard because they're women, not least based on watching the Aussie championships (which with all due respect is hardly the zenith of the sport - nor is Qatar, but the level is much higher).

The vast majority of flat stages at the men's stage races are pretty dull, but as I pointed out before no-one says, "Men's cycling... need I say more." Stuff which passes in men's cycling as part of the sport can't be left without comment in women's cycling, drawing it into some grand narrative about the inferiority of the women's sport.
You are of course correct. Mine was just an n=1 observation.

However I would love to see the kind of racing that you described with the women being chaotic with lots of attacks.

You are very correct that flat stages in men's stage racing is beyond boring at this point in the evolution of the sport - it's a tired formula.

Off-topic but this is why I greatly pefer the one-day races to the Grand Tours. LBL and Flanders with every guy in the race shooting all his bullets from 80KM to the line is SO much better than anything you'll see in a stage race (IMHO of course).
 

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