Stage 16: Pinzolo – Aprica 177 kms:Where legends are made

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Re: Re:

Flamin said:
infeXio said:
Martinelli has today (to anyone's surprise?) said that Katusha had already begun pulling at the front, and that they didn't know why Contador wasn't present - thus directly contradicting Landa's post-stage comments yesterday.

Surprise, surprise!
What's the difference with Landa's comments?
Landa said yesterday that they knew Contador had a problem, and that they sought to exploit it regardless of its nature. Martinelli then said today that information about Contador having a problem wasn't given to them.
 
Re: Re:

infeXio said:
Flamin said:
infeXio said:
Martinelli has today (to anyone's surprise?) said that Katusha had already begun pulling at the front, and that they didn't know why Contador wasn't present - thus directly contradicting Landa's post-stage comments yesterday.

Surprise, surprise!
What's the difference with Landa's comments?
Landa said yesterday that they knew Contador had a problem, and that they sought to exploit it regardless of its nature. Martinelli then said today that information about Contador having a problem wasn't given to them.
Maybe Martinelli was just talking about himself (and the staff)? That they didn't know.

Because of course the Astana riders knew something was wrong with Contador. They were riding just behind him :eek:
 
Re: Re:

infeXio said:
Flamin said:
infeXio said:
Martinelli has today (to anyone's surprise?) said that Katusha had already begun pulling at the front, and that they didn't know why Contador wasn't present - thus directly contradicting Landa's post-stage comments yesterday.

Surprise, surprise!
What's the difference with Landa's comments?
Landa said yesterday that they knew Contador had a problem, and that they sought to exploit it regardless of its nature. Martinelli then said today that information about Contador having a problem wasn't given to them.
+1.

Landa was clear in the interview. I heard him clearly. They knew about Contador's problem. Then blaming a little bit on Katusha. But then they had the chance to slow down and didn't. They were clearly taking advantage of the situation.
 
Re: Re:

Escarabajo said:
infeXio said:
Flamin said:
infeXio said:
Martinelli has today (to anyone's surprise?) said that Katusha had already begun pulling at the front, and that they didn't know why Contador wasn't present - thus directly contradicting Landa's post-stage comments yesterday.

Surprise, surprise!
What's the difference with Landa's comments?
Landa said yesterday that they knew Contador had a problem, and that they sought to exploit it regardless of its nature. Martinelli then said today that information about Contador having a problem wasn't given to them.
+1.

Landa was clear in the interview. I heard him clearly. They knew about Contador's problem. Then blaming a little bit on Katusha. But then they had the chance to slow down and didn't. They were clearly taking advantage of the situation.
Furthermore, Danish TV2 just showed a clip from yesterday from the time of the puncture, and you could see an Astana rider obviously talking on the radio as soon as he saw Contador at the back.
 
May 19, 2010
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I don't see what all the fuss is about. Astana did nothing wrong.

Rule of racing, if the pressure is already being applied if someone has a crash/mechanical, leader or not you should not have to sit up. Katusha set the pace before the puncture so they should be allowed to continue. astana were also dropped at the foot and had to chase katusha so I feel they should be able to push when they rejoined as the pace was already on.

It is not acceptable to attack if no pressure is being applied when crash/mecanical happens.
 
Re: Re:

infeXio said:
Escarabajo said:
infeXio said:
Flamin said:
infeXio said:
Martinelli has today (to anyone's surprise?) said that Katusha had already begun pulling at the front, and that they didn't know why Contador wasn't present - thus directly contradicting Landa's post-stage comments yesterday.

Surprise, surprise!
What's the difference with Landa's comments?
Landa said yesterday that they knew Contador had a problem, and that they sought to exploit it regardless of its nature. Martinelli then said today that information about Contador having a problem wasn't given to them.
+1.

Landa was clear in the interview. I heard him clearly. They knew about Contador's problem. Then blaming a little bit on Katusha. But then they had the chance to slow down and didn't. They were clearly taking advantage of the situation.
Furthermore, Danish TV2 just showed a clip from yesterday from the time of the puncture, and you could see an Astana rider obviously talking on the radio as soon as he saw Contador at the back.
You do know that Italians sometimes have this controversy mentally to obviously lie with charming little smile on their face!?

No way Martinelli was serious!
 
Re:

richo36 said:
I don't see what all the fuss is about. Astana did nothing wrong.

Rule of racing, if the pressure is already being applied if someone has a crash/mechanical, leader or not you should not have to sit up. Katusha set the pace before the puncture so they should be allowed to continue. astana were also dropped at the foot and had to chase katusha so I feel they should be able to push when they rejoined as the pace was already on.

It is not acceptable to attack if no pressure is being applied when crash/mecanical happens.
I mean I think slowing down would've been the "right" move, but on those issues, YMMV. The blatant, utterly disingenuous, barely concealed lying that came after the fact and some people find so charming I personally find rather exasperating.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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Re:

Kwibus said:
I see katusha was allready racing before contador flat. Cant blame them for racing on ofcourse.

Astana ofcourse helped out once they knew contador had a problem.
They didn't help katusha, they were behind in another group and rode like hell then they caught katusha.

I don't have a prob with it except the lying after the race.
 
Re: Re:

Miburo said:
Kwibus said:
I see katusha was allready racing before contador flat. Cant blame them for racing on ofcourse.

Astana ofcourse helped out once they knew contador had a problem.
They didn't help katusha, they were behind in another group and rode like hell then they caught katusha.

I don't have a prob with it except the lying after the race.
Yeh but once they caught up with Katusha they waited a bit and then started pulling full as well together with Katusha. At one point Contador is quite close, but losing his men quickly as well. I think they thought they would end up close enough, but once Keeuziger was left alone it was him vs 2 astana and 2 katusha guys. That's when the gap went from 15 seconds to 50 seconds again. Kreuziger really put in an extreme long dig at the front, Contador did push him quite often.

I'm not upset with Astana. It's racing afterall, but im just saying this because after I read this entire thread and then started watchung the stage I noticed that the information in this thread was quite flawed.
 
Re:

l.Harm said:
I believe Kruijswijk had some disease which is why he underperformed for years after his nice Giro + Suisse stage win.
nah, leg artery problem so he couldn't use his leg 100%. Then he had surgery in 2013 and it took him 2 years to return. Although last year already the signs were there with his 15th place in the TDF and win in some norwegian race
 
Jul 29, 2012
11,703
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Re: Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
l.Harm said:
I believe Kruijswijk had some disease which is why he underperformed for years after his nice Giro + Suisse stage win.
nah, leg artery problem so he couldn't use his leg 100%. Then he had surgery in 2013 and it took him 2 years to return. Although last year already the signs were there with his 15th place in the TDF and win in some norwegian race
Truly sad that landa was still there otherwise it would have been a great win for kruiswijk. One that would be remain in cycling history.
 
Re: Re:

Kwibus said:
Miburo said:
Kwibus said:
I see katusha was allready racing before contador flat. Cant blame them for racing on ofcourse.

Astana ofcourse helped out once they knew contador had a problem.
They didn't help katusha, they were behind in another group and rode like hell then they caught katusha.

I don't have a prob with it except the lying after the race.
Yeh but once they caught up with Katusha they waited a bit and then started pulling full as well together with Katusha. At one point Contador is quite close, but losing his men quickly as well. I think they thought they would end up close enough, but once Keeuziger was left alone it was him vs 2 astana and 2 katusha guys. That's when the gap went from 15 seconds to 50 seconds again. Kreuziger really put in an extreme long dig at the front, Contador did push him quite often.

I'm not upset with Astana. It's racing afterall, but im just saying this because after I read this entire thread and then started watchung the stage I noticed that the information in this thread was quite flawed.
Don't forget that at some point, after Kreuziger had been pulling alone for a while, legendary Manuele Boaro came back and went to the front to work for his captain right away :)
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
Kwibus said:
Miburo said:
Kwibus said:
I see katusha was allready racing before contador flat. Cant blame them for racing on ofcourse.

Astana ofcourse helped out once they knew contador had a problem.
They didn't help katusha, they were behind in another group and rode like hell then they caught katusha.

I don't have a prob with it except the lying after the race.
Yeh but once they caught up with Katusha they waited a bit and then started pulling full as well together with Katusha. At one point Contador is quite close, but losing his men quickly as well. I think they thought they would end up close enough, but once Keeuziger was left alone it was him vs 2 astana and 2 katusha guys. That's when the gap went from 15 seconds to 50 seconds again. Kreuziger really put in an extreme long dig at the front, Contador did push him quite often.

I'm not upset with Astana. It's racing afterall, but im just saying this because after I read this entire thread and then started watchung the stage I noticed that the information in this thread was quite flawed.
Don't forget that at some point, after Kreuziger had been pulling alone for a while, legendary Manuele Boaro came back and went to the front to work for his captain right away :)
Didnt reach that point yet, but that was awesome indeed. Where did he come from? Lol!
Now watching contador chasing back on the Mortirolo...just wow! First one that helped him was a Bardiani guy btw. Then Nocentini and after that Anton with a great help...bringing Contador back to Amador which was funny ofcourse.... I mean... Maybe Anton shouldve helped Amador a bit longer. Hehe

Landa is busy wrecking Aru, which is also funny to see.

If I had seen this live my heartrate would probably higher then Contadors heart rate! Seeing the replay is nervewrecking.... Wow.
 
Re: Re:

Kwibus said:
LaFlorecita said:
Kwibus said:
Miburo said:
Kwibus said:
I see katusha was allready racing before contador flat. Cant blame them for racing on ofcourse.

Astana ofcourse helped out once they knew contador had a problem.
They didn't help katusha, they were behind in another group and rode like hell then they caught katusha.

I don't have a prob with it except the lying after the race.
Yeh but once they caught up with Katusha they waited a bit and then started pulling full as well together with Katusha. At one point Contador is quite close, but losing his men quickly as well. I think they thought they would end up close enough, but once Keeuziger was left alone it was him vs 2 astana and 2 katusha guys. That's when the gap went from 15 seconds to 50 seconds again. Kreuziger really put in an extreme long dig at the front, Contador did push him quite often.

I'm not upset with Astana. It's racing afterall, but im just saying this because after I read this entire thread and then started watchung the stage I noticed that the information in this thread was quite flawed.
Don't forget that at some point, after Kreuziger had been pulling alone for a while, legendary Manuele Boaro came back and went to the front to work for his captain right away :)
Didnt reach that point yet, but that was awesome indeed. Where did he come from? Lol!
Now watching contador chasing back on the Mortirolo...just wow! First one that helped him was a Bardiani guy btw. Then Nocentini and after that Anton with a great help...bringing Contador back to Amador which was funny ofcourse.... I mean... Maybe Anton shouldve helped Amador a bit longer. Hehe

Landa is busy wrecking Aru, which is also funny to see.

If I had seen this live my heartrate would probably higher then Contadors heart rate! Seeing the replay is nervewrecking.... Wow.
Boaro comes back before the Mortirolo so you are past it. He was the last one with Alberto before he goes it alone.

Epic is a word used way to much to describe races, but that ride on the Mortirolo was Epic. AC said his heart rate was 180 on the flat before he hit the climb. Personally I was so agitated I had to take an extra heart pill! But that is what makes cycling great; the pananche, the epic deeds the passion I feel for it!
 
Re: Re:

Boaro comes back before the Mortirolo so you are past it. He was the last one with Alberto before he goes it alone.

Epic is a word used way to much to describe races, but that ride on the Mortirolo was Epic. AC said his heart rate was 180 on the flat before he hit the climb. Personally I was so agitated I had to take an extra heart pill! But that is what makes cycling great; the pananche, the epic deeds the passion I feel for it!
I didnt write that down well. The post Flo responds too I didnt reach the part where Boaro came back to help, but in my previous post I did see him coming back.
 
Great to see this stage again...What always strikes me is how many 'neutral' riders wanted to help Contador on the climb ...One can say karma Landa and Aru
Igor Anton was the funniest. First he doesn't give a *** for his team leadar Amador who was battling for a top5 at the time. Then helps Contador for almost a kilometer and brings him to Amador, and then again doesn't care for his teammate and drops back again.
 
Rewatching this now. If Kruiswijk had ridden smarter in the first two weeks he could have genuinely contended.

It was no mean feat to pace Contador and Landa the way he did at that stage of the race after all the attacks he had made
 
Rewatching this now. If Kruiswijk had ridden smarter in the first two weeks he could have genuinely contended.

It was no mean feat to pace Contador and Landa the way he did at that stage of the race after all the attacks he had made
Nah. Kruijswijk has never been at that level when it really mattered. 2016 Kruijswijk wasn't that level either in my opinion.
 
Nah. Kruijswijk has never been at that level when it really mattered. 2016 Kruijswijk wasn't that level either in my opinion.
I'm talking top 3-5. He has said since that his form was similar both years, but he raced smarter in 2016 after seeing how he stacked up.

Kruiswijk wasn't going to be able to match Contador or Landa, but if you look at everyone between him and Landa on the final GC
 
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