Stage 20: Saturday May 26th, Caldes/Val di Sole - Passo dello Stelvio 219km

[meat puppet]

Once in a while has been for the past 3 years - Scarponi (from Bert), Cadel and Menchov (from Di Luca). You have to go back to 2008 for the last sprinter to win, with Daniele Bennati.

Wasn't talking about the Giro specifically, but a fair point nonetheless, and duly noted. However, I want the king sprinter himself to get shafted, too, and that is only after he actually tried going thru the inferno.

Earlier, when there was the dispute about hanging onto the car, I said that having to ride the course is punishment enough. Completing the race and losing is what I had in mind. Usually, there is granted salvation at the end but not this time, and that's nice.

This has nothing to do with hating, and all with being occasionally fed up with the stale scripts of the branch of the cultural industry called procycling. It should be racing, human effort pregnant with uncertainties and contradictions, not a robotized assembly line; but in the end we tend to get precisely the opposite, a watered down predictable spectacle that is easy to market.

During this Giro the stages, that is the individual moments of the race might have been dull. However, their interplay ie the dynamic of the race taken as a whole has, to me at least, produced something exiting, something that we de facto did not know beforehands. I'm content with that. Perhaps it's enough to me to see the favorites and stars in trouble. But whattaheck, Im a commie, so it figures.

Also in this sense, although I often tend to contradict hrotha's complaints about conservative racing, I 100% agree with the spirit and ends that he sports. Only I think the means are not simply riding more aggressively when the guys might not have the reserves to do so.

Now, if someone wants argue that a sprinter actually winning the jersey would be the break in the pattern called for by me, that's fine and I cannot say a word. Matter of perspective, I guess.

 

[dlwssonic]

I really hope the action starts on the mortiloro. Basso has to push on there like he did in 2010.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Yesterday morning I was so excited for this stage. Yesterday evening I made plads for this afternoon, meaning I'll only be able to see the last few kilometres today.

I think that says it all.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

It's curious how everyone is starting to say that the dullest Giro since at least 2009 (curiously Cav won 3 stages also that year!) is a result of no blood doping or EPO or whatever.

To think that only a couple of months ago we were *joking* about Ibarguen's magic touch and the wonders of OPQS...

Yeah, it's crazy. Not even Scarponi and Basso perform at their "usual" level anymore.

2009 was far better than this dreck, IMO. I enjoyed that one.

 

[the asian]

I have an issue with punishing courses.

I love the GIRO, but as it is hard, and the riders, most likely clean, a race of attrition, suffering and pain,
Would I like to see Jesus suffer, heck no.
Make the course easier.

These riders look sick, in this years GIRO, why not make the race competitive,for more than a few specialists. The riders are underpaid, also.

We have the Tour De France as an easy Grand Tour. No point in making the Giro easy. It should remain the toughest challenge for a cyclist.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

we don't.

but the way the riders rode those last kilos looked as clean as it has been since the 80s.

those who want a return to epo/blood fueled robo climbing don't know what exciting is.

what is happening is twofold:

1. cleaner performances
2. there is less difference between the top riders than in the 80s -- more riders are competitive, well-trained, equal in talent at the top of the profession -- a normal progression after more than 20 years

i think it's interesting that ryder mentions how he tends to get better in the third week. during the epo/blood bag heydays that didn't matter, because anyone and everyone could get refills and the true test of a 3 week tour was basically nullified.

the 80s were a lot more exciting though. at least there riders dared to attack from further. I think mount baldy california was a true testament to how exciting clean cycling can be with the right elements, meaning colombian teams thank you. we saw even better last year in utah

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Luckily enough you guys (and also some others from yesterday) are the minority, b/c your points are so wrong. So there is still hope the giro becomes a better race again in the near future.
Let me get this straight again. It has nothing to do with more or less clinic issues.

I have an issue with punishing courses.

I love the GIRO, but as it is hard, and the riders, most likely clean, a race of attrition, suffering and pain,
Would I like to see Jesus suffer, heck no.
Make the course easier.

These riders look sick, in this years GIRO, why not make the race competitive,for more than a few specialists. The riders are underpaid, also.

No, no, no...
Exactly the opposite. Make it harder. I can´t believe some guys here like to have 21 "Cav-Stages". Is that really interesting? Where would be the separation between the good and the not so good? It´s so ridiculous, i can´t go any further before going mad... why not roll a dice from the beginning, or let the riders wait 5 hrs in a hotel room and start 21 stages at 5 p.m. for 2.000 meters.
Yours is just a different argument like from the guy who judges the GT´s by the margin between 1st and 2nd, but with the same ending: Dull races.

Yeah make it easier that everybody can compete. Why not lower the standards for everybody in the world. Why should the best be rewarded. Omg, that´s so wrong...

The riders are underpaid? Compared to US-Pros or soccer stars, yes. To the average hard working miner? Of course not. They get the money that´s there. If they wouldn´t like it, they could work for something that´s paid better. BTW, i am underpaid too. I guess everybody thinks that...

we don't.

but the way the riders rode those last kilos looked as clean as it has been since the 80s.

those who want a return to epo/blood fueled robo climbing don't know what exciting is.

what is happening is twofold:

1. cleaner performances
2. there is less difference between the top riders than in the 80s -- more riders are competitive, well-trained, equal in talent at the top of the profession -- a normal progression after more than 20 years

i think it's interesting that ryder mentions how he tends to get better in the third week. during the epo/blood bag heydays that didn't matter, because anyone and everyone could get refills and the true test of a 3 week tour was basically nullified.

How you know that the riders are as "clean" as the 80s? Because they told you so?
We do not want "rambo" climbing. But the problem with "easier" GT´s is that it doesn´t bring natural separation, thus leading to big groups on the final mountains, where it is a better choice for the contenders to ride with drafting than attacking. Would there be separation before, it would be fighting man against man w/o dull tacticts.
So please don´t tell us what exciting is if you don´t know real GT´s.

Why should there be less difference between top riders? That´s utter nonsense. If you get bigger talent pools, you get stronger natural "freaks". The far left end of Gaussian distribution will be the same.

"and the true test of a 3 week tour was basically nullified". I don´t want those days back, but i have to mention this, b/c it´s more nonsense. Why o why were there still big time gaps if everybody was at the same level?

The GIRO was won Friday, Saturday will be a funeral march for the survivors, congrats hejerdal,won fair and square.

Since when can you look into the future? I guess you layed all your money on this?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

It's curious how everyone is starting to say that the dullest Giro since at least 2009 (curiously Cav won 3 stages also that year!) is a result of no blood doping or EPO or whatever.

To think that only a couple of months ago we were *joking* about Ibarguen's magic touch and the wonders of OPQS...

yes this was quite hilarious back in april. by now quickstep sucker as hard as they ever did after the cobbled classics.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Yeah, it's crazy. Not even Scarponi and Basso perform at their "usual" level anymore.

2009 was far better than this dreck, IMO. I enjoyed that one.

I also don´t get that crap either. I guess those who criticize 2009 just jumped some band waggon, but actually didn´t see it. It was a good giro...

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

2009 giro was indeed good. since last year or so all of a sudden it was a giro hated.

 

[Lanark]

2009 had a boring route, but the relentless attacks of Di Luca on Menchov (even in the last time trial) made it a pretty exciting Giro to watch. Not a great one, but I certainly liked it better than the 2011 one-man show and this year's procession.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Thanks god there are still guys out there like Ryo, Lanark, Hrotha, Descender, The Asian and many other who actually like cycling competition, b/c if the others win the upper hand, we will lose it for good.

 

[Red Rick]

2009 had a boring route, but the relentless attacks of Di Luca on Menchov (even in the last time trial) made it a pretty exciting Giro to watch. Not a great one, but I certainly liked it better than the 2011 one-man show and this year's procession.

Yeah, and some mountain stages were 80km long, which meant 1 hour snoredom and 40 minutes of mountain mayhem

 

[Libertine Seguros]

2009 giro was indeed good. since last year or so all of a sudden it was a giro hated.

The route got a lot of criticism, but it was raced pretty well which negated it.

This is the worst Giro route since 2004, and has possibly been raced even less well.

 

[Eshnar]

The route got a lot of criticism, but it was raced pretty well which negated it.

This is the worst Giro route since 2004, and has possibly been raced even less well.

hugely worse raced this one
Cunego won that Giro attacking at 60kms to go...
And Simoni tried to steal that attacking on the last stage at 100+ to go.
Thinking about that, it was just like last year's Tour.
Only it was raced slightly better in the first MTF.

 

[Mellow Velo]

However folks feel about Contador's dominance, 2011 had stage 15.
Anything from this year come close? No, I thought not.

Put it this way, I have zero expectations for the Mortirolo, other than to see a green train riding tempo all the way to the top and well beyond.

Sure hope they prove me wrong.

2004? Well, this year's Gc is starting to resemble that one, in terms of non "climbers" in the top 10.
Poor parcour but far better racing.

 

[theyoungest]

However folks feel about Contador's dominance, 2011 had stage 15.
Anything from this year come close? No, I thought not.

Put it this way, I have zero expectations for the Mortirolo, other than to see a green train dropping Szmyd at the bottom and riding tempo all the way to the top and well beyond.

Sure hope they prove me wrong.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Fixed it for you.

Yeah.
No doubt Ivan will be referring to him as "bast*rdo", after today's stage.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

hugely worse raced this one
Cunego won that Giro attacking at 60kms to go...
And Simoni tried to steal that attacking on the last stage at 100+ to go.
Thinking about that, it was just like last year's Tour.
Only it was raced slightly better in the first MTF.

And yet everyone went on about what an incredible race last year's Tour was because we saw two attacks from big guns with more than 50k to go. Nevermind that we got two weeks of utter tedium to lead to that point.

 

[Ferminal]

No they can't.
No room for a stage finish there.

It would be a waste in any case. Mortirolo is probably the hardest pass used regularly in a major race. Off the top of my head only Grossglockner and Telegraphe-Galibier would be close to its difficulty. But in its gradient Mortirolo is unique, and the fact that it is usually in a decisive position.

There must be more 10km @ 10% or thereabouts climbs which could be used as MTFs, but there's only one Mortirolo.

 

[airstream]

Seems to me, the forum dwell in a bad mood rather on the occasion of weak Scarponi and Basso than a boring racing or I'm wrong? In my view, the Giro is pretty good so far.

 

[Carstenbf]

Yeah, kinda gave up on CN forums by now. The amount of negativity is quite overwhelming. Came here this morning to get psyched up for todays stage, and all you get is whine over how boring this Giro has been.

Sometimes makes you wonder why most posters bother watching cycling. Everything that isn't a HC MTF is apparently a snoozefest. And when one actually shows up people are expecting the favourites to do epic style attacks from 100+km.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

oh here comes airstream who, when everyone says A, must say B!

 

[will10]

The cruelest joke, from any perspective and from all of them, would be JRod ending up with the Rosso. That would serve Cav, or any sprinter for that matter, right. It's all good that once in a while a sprinter does not win the points jersey. Keeps them alert, awake.

A sprinter hasn't won this jersey since 2008

 

[airstream]

oh here comes airstream who, when everyone says A, must say B!

Well, the majority is often wrong, as El Pistollero said.