Start of Grand Tours abroad. How far is too far?

[FilipeFD]

List of Grand Tours beginning outside its country

Tour

1954

Amsterdam
1958

Brussels
1965

Cologne
1973

Scheveningen
1975

Charleroi
1978

Leiden
1980

Frankfurt
1982

Basel
1987

West Berlin
1989

Luxembourg City
1992

San Sebastián
1996

's-Hertogenbosch
1998

Dublin
2002

Luxembourg City
2004

Liège
2007

London
2009

Monaco City
2010

Rotterdam
2012

Liège
2014

Leeds
2015

Utrecht
2017

Dusseldorf
2019

Brussels

Future Tour Rumours
2020 Copenhagen
2022 Stavanger


Giro

1965

San Marino
1966

Monaco City
1973

Verviers
1974

Vatican City
1996

Athens
1998

Nice
2002

Groningen
2006

Seraing
2010

Amsterdam
2012

Herning
2014

Belfast
2016

Apeldoorn
2018

Jerusalem

Failed Giro Rumours
2012 Washington
2017 Shizuoka


Vuelta

1997

Lisbon
2009

Assen
2017

Nimes


Total

10 times

7

4
...


Viewing this list we can see how the start of Grand Tours (Giro, Tour, Vuelta) are getting more common.

In the last 10 Tour's and Giro's (20 overall), 10 started outside its country. Vuelta dont seem to sympathize much as others. However, in the last 10, 2 started outside Spain, in 3 starts total. So it seems to follow others tendence.

And if in the beginning, the start was made in neighbouring countries (mostly the Tour), they are going further and further, and Giro seem to be more open to it, but according to rumours Tour are going to explore Scandinavia. Next year Giro will most probably star in Jerusalem, and there were rumours in the past, that could start in countries so far as USA or Japan.

So, it left me the question. How far can they possibly go? These two seem to be logistical nightmares, for the distance, the timezone, the transportation... Jerusalem seem more feasable (politics aside). How can we measure this. Where to draw a line?

 

[spalco]

I wouldn't really have a problem with starting on a friday and having two rest days for the transfer if necessary. I think foreign starts for the GTs are an excellent way to increase interest in the sport, especially when it's done in untraditional cycling countries.

 

[happytramp]

Nowhere is too far if the stages are interesting and challenging and the scenery is spectacular. If its three pan flat sprint stages where nothing happens before the last 300m then its very hard to ignore the fact that it's all basically a marketing ploy.

 

[slosada]

Too far: Any place whose transfer to the host country requires a rest day and makes for an excuse.
Unreasonable: when politics and visas get involved.
Reasonable: Any place that can reach the host country within 3 stages. A short drive up to 2 hours is OK.

 

[Ruby United]

I don't like having 3 stages and then a rest day.
So, as long as the start doesn't cause a rest day, I'm happy.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Re:

Too far: Any place whose transfer to the host country requires a rest day and makes for an excuse.
Unreasonable: when politics and visas get involved.
Reasonable: Any place that can reach the host country within 3 stages. A short drive up to 2 hours is OK.

So Belfast? cause IIRC the columbians all struggled with their visas

 

[BigMac]

It's not ''how far is too far'', it's ''how much is too much''.

This decade will see the Tour start more times abroad than in France.

Almost half of all Giro starts outside of Italy (will) have taken place since 2010.

Ridiculous and embarassing.

 

[benzwire]

I think they should do a start in Reykjavik, Iceland. Incorporate some gravel roads, etc. Sounds like fun to me.

 

[DFA123]

Imo, they should only start abroad where it fulfills three criteria. Firstly, no rest day necessary. Secondly it should only be in countries that don't already have their own big races. Thirdly, it should always be at the expense of the typical first week flat stages in the main country, not in addition to them.

 

[Netserk]

Which races are 'big'?

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Which races are 'big'?

Classics and the traditional big stage races. So no starts in Belgium, Holland, Switzerland, France, Italy, Spain. That will then avoid the travesty of a flat stage around Liege or another tedious flat TT in Netherlands.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

Which races are 'big'?

Classics and the traditional big stage races. So no starts in Belgium, Holland, Switzerland, France, Italy, Spain. That will then avoid the travesty of a flat stage around Liege or another tedious flat TT in Netherlands.

So... the races that are close enough can't be used because they - for the majority - has their own big races. And the races that doesn't have their own big races are too far away.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Which races are 'big'?

Classics and the traditional big stage races. So no starts in Belgium, Holland, Switzerland, France, Italy, Spain. That will then avoid the travesty of a flat stage around Liege or another tedious flat TT in Netherlands.

So... the races that are close enough can't be used because they - for the majority - has their own big races. And the races that doesn't have their own big races are too far away.

Well, no. It still leaves UK, Portugal, Luxembourg, Germany, Andorra and possibly Ireland, Denmark, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro, Bosnia - and a few others that would benefit a lot more from hosting a couple of GT stages, than countries that already have huge races.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

Which races are 'big'?

Classics and the traditional big stage races. So no starts in Belgium, Holland, Switzerland, France, Italy, Spain. That will then avoid the travesty of a flat stage around Liege or another tedious flat TT in Netherlands.

So... the races that are close enough can't be used because they - for the majority - has their own big races. And the races that doesn't have their own big races are too far away.

Well, no. It still leaves UK, Portugal, Luxembourg, Germany, Andorra and possibly Ireland, Denmark, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro, Bosnia - and a few others that would benefit a lot more from hosting a couple of GT stages, than countries that already have huge races.

You said yourself that requiring and extra travel-"rest"-day would be too far away.
Guess San Marino and the Vatican would also be a possibility.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Which races are 'big'?

Classics and the traditional big stage races. So no starts in Belgium, Holland, Switzerland, France, Italy, Spain. That will then avoid the travesty of a flat stage around Liege or another tedious flat TT in Netherlands.

So... the races that are close enough can't be used because they - for the majority - has their own big races. And the races that doesn't have their own big races are too far away.

Well, no. It still leaves UK, Portugal, Luxembourg, Germany, Andorra and possibly Ireland, Denmark, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro, Bosnia - and a few others that would benefit a lot more from hosting a couple of GT stages, than countries that already have huge races.

You said yourself that requiring and extra travel-"rest"-day would be too far away.
Guess San Marino and the Vatican would also be a possibility.

Scrap Ireland and Denmark then if they can't do it without a rest day. Although I think both could be possible with some nifty logistical work. Probably not worth it though for a couple more tedious, flat stages.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

There's also Morocco

Actually, back in the early 60s, the Critérium International had an edition in Algeria (at Oran), which wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility either.

But let's face it, by "big races" here we mean the GTs, because smaller races don't really have the same kind of scale to "start abroad" - and if they do it's oftentimes a bit strange, like when the Tour de Pologne started in Italy. I guess the Volta a Portugal could feasibly start in Galicia, or something.

I am a proponent of the "if you can't do it without adding a rest day, don't do it" argument. That or removing a rest day later in the race and doing a long middle stint, which has worked in the past (2010 Giro) but also failed at other times (2009 Vuelta).

Don't forget also that, though they aren't overseas GT starts, there are logistical challenges inherent in the starts in non-contiguous parts of the country like the 2017 Giro in Sardinia or the 2013 Tour in Corsica, tougher ones than starting the Vuelta in Nîmes or Lisboa or starting the Tour in Brussels or Düsseldorf, which is why such starts are fairly unusual. However, they aren't overseas starts so they are reasonable given that these parts of the countries are often overlooked in race planning due to the logistical issues, hence why we've only once seen Las Canarias in the Vuelta. That said, if the riders can more than once be loaded onto ferries after a race day to compete in Mallorca the next day and then be ferried back, there's no need for a rest day for such events, and also the example set by the Arctic Tour of Norway, hosting the race caravan on cruise ships, opens up a few possibilities. Microstates contained within one of the host countries or immediately bordering - Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, Vatican City - shouldn't be a problem, while the ferries issue would make most of the countries along the Adriatic coast feasible Giro hosts - particularly Croatia, which has hosted mid-Giro stages before, and Albania because of the large Albanian minority in Italy - as well as making Ireland more accessible for the Tour, and bringing North Africa into consideration (either for Morocco, Algeria or Tunisia, or for the two Spanish exclaves). If you don't border one of the GT hosts, you should be able to get back to that country with little issue. Southern Germany ought to be doable for the Giro, but would likely neutralize much of the Dolomites like in the 2009 Giro because of race planning. The Netherlands has become probably the most common GT start in recent years, ahead of either Italy or France (I exaggerate, but not that much), and most of us are by now bored witless by these endless starts with soul-destroying sprint stages (especially with the Giro sticking the prologue on a Friday and leaving us with two characterless stages at the weekend before a completely unnecessary and undeserved rest day), but it's still a reasonable change of pace of a Tour start. A "flyaway" host is fine as a rarity, but not as the norm.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

They need to bring the Concord back, so we can have one of the GT's start in the US.

 

[Leinster]

I'll know the Tour of California has made it big on the calendar when they're confident enough to have race starts in Oregon, Nevada, Arizona, Hawaii or even Mexico.

 

[FilipeFD]

Re:

But let's face it, by "big races" here we mean the GTs, because smaller races don't really have the same kind of scale to "start abroad" - and if they do it's oftentimes a bit strange, like when the Tour de Pologne started in Italy. I guess the Volta a Portugal could feasibly start in Galicia, or something.

Volta a Portugal already started once in Spain. Seville in 1998 if I'm not mistaken

 

[benzwire]

Re:

I'll know the Tour of California has made it big on the calendar when they're confident enough to have race starts in Oregon, Nevada, Arizona, Hawaii or even Mexico.

They started the men's race in Nevada (South Lake Tahoe- Nevada side) in 2011, but were snowed out. The women raced at Tahoe and into Nevada this year.
Cali's big enough where they don't need to go out of state, let alone Mexico.

Any start in North America (i.e. Giro start in Wash, DC or TdF in Quebec) is simply too far due to the time differences and resulting jet lag. They would have to do a 2 or 3 day transition, which is a possibility I guess.
The other issue is the costs to the teams and transporting all the equipment and staff needed. Gets way too expensive for smaller teams.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

But let's face it, by "big races" here we mean the GTs, because smaller races don't really have the same kind of scale to "start abroad" - and if they do it's oftentimes a bit strange, like when the Tour de Pologne started in Italy. I guess the Volta a Portugal could feasibly start in Galicia, or something.

I kinda figured what DFA123 meant was that a GT shouldn't start in a country which already has its own big race. But, yeah... Tour de Pologne starting in Italy was just weird.
Personally I don't see any issues with needing an extra "rest" day to get to the main-country, or even - as with this year's Giro - getting from a somewhat remote part of the main-country till the main-land. (Did that make sense?). However, the travel-day shouldn't take up too great a percentage of the race's overall time. A seven-day race like Tour de Pologne needing an extra day for travelling, that's a bit much... But a three-week race like a Grand Tour needing it, not too much of a problem.

 

[Jagartrott]

Places so far that riders have to overcome jet lag are definitely a no-go. Japan is completely ridiculous for instance. Also, any country that makes the race overtly political (Israel) should be avoided. Otherwise, I'm not really a fan of starts abroad but I would agree that Iceland sounds pretty damn attractive to have a GT start.

 

[rick james]

Edinburgh is trying like a *** to get the start of Le tour, its held a few stages of the tour of Britain as a dress rehearsal

 

[Ricco']

Re: Re:

The other issue is the costs to the teams and transporting all the equipment and staff needed. Gets way too expensive for smaller teams.

Surely it would be the organization the ones to support this costs, no?

 

[BeagRigh]

Re:

Edinburgh is trying like a *** to get the start of Le tour, its held a few stages of the tour of Britain as a dress rehearsal

The Scottish Tour of Britain stages have generally been very poor. I see why, for logistically reasons, the highlands - Bealach Na Ba, Cairngorms Ski Centres etc - are difficult but they even manage to miss the interesting bits of the Borders!

If they do get it I hope they do it properly:
- A technical prologo round Edinburgh: Up the Mount, down The Royal Mile, round Arthur's Seat, past the Commie Pool, through the Meadows, round into the Grassmarket, up Victoria Street and back onto the Royal Mile to finish infront of the Castle!
- A hilly stage starting and finishing in the Tweed Valley - Tour of the Borders route?
- A potential echelon stage along the Fife Coast to St. Andrews

Back on topic; once every few years, and when it can be done without an additional rest day, and no significant transfer or political issues.