Start of Grand Tours abroad. How far is too far?

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Jagartrott said:
Places so far that riders have to overcome jet lag are definitely a no-go. Japan is completely ridiculous for instance. Also, any country that makes the race overtly political (Israel) should be avoided. Otherwise, I'm not really a fan of starts abroad but I would agree that Iceland sounds pretty damn attractive to have a GT start.

Bit of a logistical nightmare, though. Unless a deal could be done so teams wouldn't have to bring all their regular team cars + busses along for the first few stages.
Bit like how they don't bring them along for the TDU.
 
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RedheadDane said:
Sure, being there could be cool. It's just the transport of everything that can't be transported by plane that might be a bit difficult.
How did they get team buses/cars from Corsica/Ireland to the mainland in the past? Is Reikjavik to Brittany significantly farther than Dublin to Italy so that it would be another day of travel/level of logistics?
 
Actually, I dunno how they got everyone from Ireland to Italy... suppose they sailed to France, then drove to Italy.
As for Iceland to France. They'd need to sail to Scotland, then drive through GB, then cross the channel.
 
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All I ask is that the race doesn't depart from a war torn area or one with ultra corrupt politicians. I don't mind the rest too much. The logistics aren't too crazy so long as you stay in Europe, anyways.
 
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Red Rick said:
If I'm being completely objective, I have to say that anything further than The Netherlands is too far.

further than the Netherlands from where? Portugal is further than the Netherlands from France, but it would make sense to have the Vuelta start there.


Durden93 said:
All I ask is that the race doesn't depart from a war torn area or one with ultra corrupt politicians. I don't mind the rest too much. The logistics aren't too crazy so long as you stay in Europe, anyways.

Still a pretty long trip from Eastern (European) Russia to Spain... :p
 
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RedheadDane said:
Actually, I dunno how they got everyone from Ireland to Italy... suppose they sailed to France, then drove to Italy.
As for Iceland to France. They'd need to sail to Scotland, then drive through GB, then cross the channel.
I google mapped it, and it looks like sailing from Iceland would actually mean a 68 hour ferry from the east coast to Denmark. Whereas driving from Dublin to Bari (why did they start the mainland part in the furthest bit of Italy from Ireland?) would only involve a 3 hour ferry ride to Holyhead and then riding the channel tunnel for an hour to Calais.

The obvious solution would be to rent trucks, buses etc for the teams while in Iceland and have all the primary gear waiting at the mainland start. There would presumably be a rest day in between and riders could use their spare bikes for their cafe ride if the no1 bikes are still in transit.
 
Re: Re:

RedheadDane said:
Red Rick said:
If I'm being completely objective, I have to say that anything further than The Netherlands is too far.

further than the Netherlands from where? Portugal is further than the Netherlands from France, but it would make sense to have the Vuelta start there.


Durden93 said:
All I ask is that the race doesn't depart from a war torn area or one with ultra corrupt politicians. I don't mind the rest too much. The logistics aren't too crazy so long as you stay in Europe, anyways.

Still a pretty long trip from Eastern (European) Russia to Spain... :p

No countries in the opposite direction of the Netherlands may be visited, and if you want to keep it closer to the native country then Belgium already has enough big races as is.
 
Aug 13, 2016
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Alpe d'Huez said:
They need to bring the Concord back, so we can have one of the GT's start in the US. :)
+1

Cargo service with Blackjacks in exchange for a stage around Vladivostok.
 
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Libertine Seguros said:
There's also Morocco :)

And even closer to Spain, the United Kingdom!

BeagRigh said:
rick james said:
Edinburgh is trying like a *** to get the start of Le tour, its held a few stages of the tour of Britain as a dress rehearsal

The Scottish Tour of Britain stages have generally been very poor. I see why, for logistically reasons, the highlands - Bealach Na Ba, Cairngorms Ski Centres etc - are difficult but they even manage to miss the interesting bits of the Borders!

Scotland, England and Wales need their own races.

benzwire said:
Any start in North America (i.e. Giro start in Wash, DC or TdF in Quebec) is simply too far due to the time differences and resulting jet lag. They would have to do a 2 or 3 day transition, which is a possibility I guess.
The other issue is the costs to the teams and transporting all the equipment and staff needed. Gets way too expensive for smaller teams.

I have the solution. You have an opening three days in North America. Then the next 17 stages are circuit races held on the deck of an Atlantic cruise ship. Then the Champs-Élysées! Congratulations future TDF winner, Marcel Kittel.
 
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I think a Giro start in former Yugoslavia would be nice. Maybe in Greece and ferry to Bari or something. Malta could be an interesting option as well.

Spain just needs to open with a "hilly prologue" up Roque de los Muchachos already. A 40km MTT opening stage is totally reasonable guys. Also, doesn't Spain still claim the Western Sahara thing? We could totally have Tour of Qatar style echelons madness for a Western Sahara start for the Vuelta. Than go do some mountains in the Canaries and then you can have your stupid uphill sprints on the Iberian peninsula.

And as for the TDF, Réunion is only three hours ahead of mainland France, so the transfer shouldn't really cause problems, I don't think.

Finally, following that train of thought, since - with all due respect to California - the Eneco Tour is clearly the most prestigious stage race behind the GTs - basically the 4th GT - I propose a prologue on Saba for the Grand Depart of the Eneco Tour.

In conclusion, there are no reasonable novel options except for the Giro (which obviously isn't to say they can't get more novel with unnovel locations, both domestic and abroad). Oh and I didn't mention it, but LS's remark about Morocco for Spain was a pretty good idea, if politics permit it (I hear things are going awry in the Rif mountains these days).
 

Singer01

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I don't mind how far away if the racing is good where they go, if that means you have to lose a stage for a transfer so be it, would anybody seriously objected if this years TDF had one boring stage fewer?
Secondly the logistics side of things is a bit of a red herring, the amount of unecessary kit that gets carted round at Grand Tours nowadays is ridic.
 
I don't think they would lose a stage, they'd just do as they've done a couple of times with the Giro already; start on a Friday so they can have an extra rest-day and still finish on a Sunday. They even had to do it this year, despite Sardinia not actually being "abroad", whereas for the Tour they didn't need to.

As for how I feel about it:
Thing is, I can't really be too it shouldn't start too far away!!! Would be kinda hypocritical of me. I loved it when the Giro started in Denmark, I would love it if the Tour ever got to start in Denmark. However, I can see why the riders wouldn't like it, and if Denmark never gets a Tour-start then so be it.
 
For me, to start abroad must be in a country on the neighborhood of the country's home tour and/or have historically ties and culture similarities with the principal country.

For instance, a list of countries which I think would be natural for a host start:

Giro:
Austria
France
Switzerland
Croatia
Slovenia
Greece (a bit far but I wouldn't mind)
To sum up the last three, mediterraneen countries.

Tour:
Belgium
Spain
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Germany
Italy
Switzerland
Great Britain (a bit far, and I don't know if it possesses many similarites, but could work as we have seen already in the past

Vuelta:
Portugal
France
Morocco
 
In April Javier "____/" Guillen talked about his plans for the next years. He wants more stages in Portugal and he thinks about Ceuta and Melilla. He wants to connect them with stages in Morocco. Which will of course not happen.

His big dream are the Canary Islands. He wants four stages there, two on Tenerife and two on Gran Canaria. It would take 26 hrs. to bring all the infrastructure to the islands, the riders would fly of course. The costs for that project would be around 2 million euros. The main problem I see, is that the Canary Islands don't need La Vuelta. They are one of the most interesting and booked tourist regions in Europe. They don't need any publicity due to a bike race.

jmdirt said:
I think its ridiculous that a GT goes out of its country at all.

It's btw quite interesting how politics where made by cycling races. Take a look on the Giro of 1924 having a stage to Fiume/Rijeka or the Tour coming to Alsace in 1919.
 
Great Britain is easy enough for the Tour, because of the Channel Tunnel. As long as places in Nord-Pas-de-Calais or whatever the Ch'ti part of the country is now called following the reorganization are willing to host, so you can make the transition back to France make sense, it's not a problem.

Obviously Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, Vatican City are feasible. In theory for the Giro so should Liechtenstein be, but I see little reason for them to host other than at Malbun, which would be a fair way from the border though certainly doable (I had a mooted Giro double mountain stage with one from around Lecco over Splügenpass, Lenzerheidepass and into Liechtenstein to finish on Malbun, then an ensuing stage from Vaduz over Flüelapass, Ofenpass, Umbrailpass and finishing either at Bormio 2000 or Santa Caterina Valfurva). I don't really see the other four microstates as overseas starts at all; Andorra perhaps slightly different but the other three can only be accessed from France (Monaco) or Italy (San Marino/Vatican City) so it's not really an overseas start and requires less logistical hassle than the Sardinian Giro start, Corsican Tour start or the Vuelta starts in the Canaries in the 80s and the mooted Ceuta and Melilla stages. Although the Giro could obviously start in Monaco and that would be a foreign start

Another Giro option would be Albania. There's an improving infrastructure there and their interest in the sport is increasing, plus a sizable minority population in Italy, and with two teams (one men's, one women's) Italian-based but Albanian-registered and a home Tour now set up, it may be feasible in future, with a fast boat transfer to Bari being the most likely route back to the race's home. I think the Giro could also do Malta likewise, although it is probably too small to host three full stages.

For the Vuelta, Guillén's problem is the recognition of Ceuta and Melilla. If he does stages there, Morocco isn't going to want the race because it doesn't recognize the two cities as Spanish. As a result it's more likely he'd have to do something akin to my Race Design Thread start in Melilla using the same circuit in Melilla (the 1997 national championships course) for a circuit race and a TT. Ceuta offers a more difficult and selective stage, but is also much more easy to connect to the mainland and could easily just host one stage before returning to the mainland somewhere like Algeciras or La Línea de la Concepción. There is another option in the Vuelta of course, unlikely as it may sound, and that's Gibraltar. Politics may render it unlikely, but back in 2010 the Ruta del Sol was going to have a 7km ITT at Our Rock, only for the funding from the Llanito companies sponsoring it to fall short after one of the companies pulled out and the stage was replaced by a TT in Málaga instead. Current political climes make it less likely, admittedly, but this may not always be the case - a short TT before the following stage starts back into Andalucía, especially once the new road is completed meaning you no longer have to cross the runway, wouldn't be impossible.

Although I love the race design possibilities of Ceuta and Melilla, I'd prefer a Morocco start with some creative stage possibilities in the Rif. I did a Vuelta Morocco start in the Race Design Thread, with an ITT in Casablanca, then a flat stage from Casablanca to Rabat, and a hilly stage from Ksar-el-Kebir (Alcázarquivír in Spanish) to Tangier before a ferry to Algeciras, so a rest day really wouldn't be necessary there. Stages across the north coast or using Fés as the depart would also be doable. It might also be a way to kill two birds with one stone as well - start in somewhere like Marrakech or Essaouira to finish the Moroccan part of the race somewhere like Agadir and you could then transfer over to the Canary Islands without a rest day, do stages up to and including stage 6 on the islands, then have the rest day on the Friday to travel back to Iberia and then have the rest days either after stage 12 (rest ensuing Friday) or 15 (rest final Monday). Hey presto, Canarias included in La Vuelta, overseas start, no extra rest day needed.
 
As much as I agree with the restrictions here, I was really excited about the Giro going to Washington, and still day dream of a TTT along the NYC Marathon route or an ITT straight down Broadway from Van Cortlandt to the Charging Bull.