State of the peloton 2021

[hrotha]

All I can say is, Olympics look out.

Ineos and that era were for me all using lots and lots of small loopholes to make a larger difference in performance, grey at best.

Some of these UAE/Bahrain team performances and another level harking back to the doping glory years. I don’t even need proof and prosecution at this point, it’s just sad.

You should ask yourself why almost a decade of dominance by one team (largely achieved with riders that were never expected to be GT contenders before) makes you less suspicious than one month of dominance by two different teams, to the point that you can adscribe the former to grey areas and loopholes while the latter registers as absolutely obvious cheating.

 

[roundabout]

Please find me the example of Roglic dropping everyone by 3 minutes on a single mountain stage. Or find Contador for that matter.

It's not about Roglic/Contador not dropping everyone.

It's about the attitude that when one's hero/heroes wins/win it's not because there is even a slight possibility that the line they are willing to cross is a bit further than it is for the people they beat.

But of course, should a rival dominate out come the concerns about cycling, talk of uneven playing field and so on.

 

[topcat]

All I can say is, Olympics look out.

Ineos and that era were for me all using lots and lots of small loopholes to make a larger difference in performance, grey at best.

Some of these UAE/Bahrain team performances and another level harking back to the doping glory years. I don’t even need proof and prosecution at this point, it’s just sad.

Whatever is being used will be exactly the same come 23rd July. Fraser-Pryce already this year knocking in the 2nd fastest 100m of all time (behind another doping era record). It’s all connected, and everyone is keeping quiet to keep the dollars rolling in.

Colbrelli… what’s the point. Already been said.

The testosterone loophole.

 

[makesuthinkhuh]

These UAE/Bahrain performances (and some others) lately have also made me think and want to look into this stuff. So I'm not even sure if this is a well known fact but the shady names within these teams all lead back to an old Slovenian team called "Perutnina Ptuj".

First of all, the names linked to the Aderlass case :

• Kristijan Koren: Slovenian rider for Bahrain Victorious. Used to ride for Perutnina Ptuj in 2008. Currently active after sitting out a 2 year suspension for his role in the Aderlass case.
  
  
• Kristijan Đurasek: Croatian rider for Team UAE. Used to ride for Perutnina Ptuj from 2006 to 2008. Currently sitting out a 4 year suspension for his role in the Aderlass case.
  
  
• Borut Bozic: Slovenian ex-Bahrain Merida rider. Retired in 2018. Used to ride for Perutnina Ptuj from 2004 to 2006. Currently also suspend for 2 years for his role in the Aderlass case.
  
  
• Milan Erzen: Slovenian ex-cyclist, now General Manager at Bahrain Victorious. Used to ride for Perutnina Ptuj from 1997 (when it was still named KRKA - Telekom) untill 2002. He was named in the Aderlass case but denied all accusations.

Other ex-riders of "Perutnina Ptuj":

• Gorazd Štangelj: Slovenian ex-cyclist, now Head Sports Director at Bahrain Victorious. Used to ride for Perutnina Ptuj from 1997 (when it was still named KRKA - Telekom) untill 2002.
  
  
• Vladimir Miholjević: Croatian ex-cyclist, now Assistent Sports Director at Bahrain Victorious. Used to ride for Perutnina Ptuj from 1997 (when it was still named KRKA - Telekom) untill 2002.

Other current staff members of Bahrain Victorious previously involved in doping:

• Franco Pellizotti: Assistent Sports Director for Bahrain Victorious. Was banned for 2 years in 2010 for "suspicious blood values".
  
  
• Neil Stephens: Assistent Sports Director for Bahrain Victorious. He was involved in the Festina doping scandal in 1998 Tour de France. He claimed that he took EPO but believed he was taking vitamin supplements intravenously.
  
  
• Rolf Aldog: Assistent Sports Director for Bahrain Victorious. Admitted having used Erythropoietin (EPO) from 1995 to 1999.

Safe to say this team kinda stinks. Or is it possible to do this for every WT team? Given cycling's recent history... If we look at UAE's management, there's some other names that raise questions.


Please fact check this information. I know this doesn't prove anything or lead to anything. For me it's just an interesting observation that I wanted to share.

 

[Tim Cahill]

How long do they have to be in Japan for before the race?

Wondering if any of these lads are brave enough to take gear over there or if it's an in and out job.

 

[roundabout]

Van Aert has just been dropped on the Col du Pré & Sepp Kuss is getting outclimbed by Sonny Colbrelli, i.e. a Bahrain sprinter. Vingegaard meanwhile has at least been consistent all year, but in no way alien.

So no, JV are having a completely cr*p Tour de France.

Lol. A rider who was probably number 3 in the team hierarchy climbing with the best of the rest in the Alps is JV having a completely crap Tour.

 

[SafeBet]

• Vladimir Miholjević: Croatian ex-cyclist, now Assistent Sports Director at Bahrain Victorious. Used to ride for Perutnina Ptuj from 1997 (when it was still named KRKA - Telekom) untill 2002.

Totally unrelated but since you seem quite knowledgable about this area, do you know if Fran Miholjevic is the son of Vladimir?

Good read about Perutnina Ptuj, Most WT teams have some shady history and/or staff.

 

[roundabout]

I could be wrong, but from memory pre Adria Mobil, Perutnina Ptuj was the only TT2 team in Slovenia, so it's no surprise that everyone rode for them at some point.

Edit: looks like 2004 was the first year with multiple teams in Slovenia

 

[Notarobot]

Vingegaard struggled to make the top10 in the U23 NC time trials.
Now he's 30 seconds off winning a time trial at the Tour de France.

I'll concede on Van Aert, although some his climbing performances in the last couple of years are really hard to believe.

I was raising my eyebrows as well. But then I found out this guy (Vingegaard) is relatively new to cycling. JV is his first pro team I believe. But let's be honest, he finished the TT completely exhausted, he gave it his all. Pogacar on the other hand lit up a sigaret and drove his bike straight to the nearest McDonalds, went to the hotel, took a shower and went to a rave to dance all night.

 

[makesuthinkhuh]

Totally unrelated but since you seem quite knowledgable about this area, do you know if Fran Miholjevic is the son of Vladimir?

Good read about Perutnina Ptuj, Most WT teams have some shady history and/or staff.

I'm not really knowledgable, looked up al this info in the last 2 hours. I only noticed Vladimir Miholjevic also has a brother who rode for Perutnina Ptuj, Hrvoje Miholjevic. I have found no link to Fran thus far.

 

[Red Rick]

It's not about Roglic/Contador not dropping everyone.

It's about the attitude that when one's hero/heroes wins/win it's not because there is even a slight possibility that the line they are willing to cross is a bit further than it is for the people they beat.

But of course, should a rival dominate out come the concerns about cycling, talk of uneven playing field and so on.

I still don't see the equivalence. Contador only had 2/9 GT wins where you could argue it wasn't competitive. And most of his appeal wasn't that he always won, it was that he won and lost spectacularly.

I'm not moving the goalposts when I say I want the race to be competitive lol.

 

[Froome]

Pogi's performances aren't that great. If pogi come to portugal to do the volta a Portugal, he will get smashed by w52. Pogi would need to improve a lot to beat them.
And of course, he's got lucky that padun is not doing the tour. He would hummiliate pogi.

 

[roundabout]

I still don't see the equivalence. Contador only had 2/9 GT wins where you could argue it wasn't competitive. And most of his appeal wasn't that he always won, it was that he won and lost spectacularly.

I'm not moving the goalposts when I say I want the race to be competitive lol.

Way to prove my point since you seem adamant that Contador has 9 GT wins.

 

[Red Rick]

Way to prove my point since you seem adamant that Contador has 9 GT wins.

We're talking about the situation on the road aren't we.

I mean we're still talking about Armstrong in these comparisons, now why would he be relevant he "never" won the Tour.

But hey I'm not excited by knowing the winner of a race in advance and just watching him ride 3 minutes away from everyone. How hypocritical of me.

 

[Mr.38%]

Vayer & alleged FancyBears: <some link>

TJV and UAE mainly.

 

[zlev11]

has to be fake, even Vayer thinks so himself.

the funniest part is when he says they're using KERS like on F1 cars

 

[Nick2413]

That's something that's triggered me as well: the fact that the already shady teams are being made to look like Christophe Bassons. Paired with the fact, that we've seen some good domestique-level riders being busted for full blood doping programs in the Aderlass case just a few years ago... Well, i think it tells the story pretty well.

Question still is, are the top guys using the old, tried and tested methods of oxygen vector doping - or is there something new around? A few posters here has talked about the effects of already doping when you're getting your baseline values settled for the bio-pass. Could this be what's given fuel to the rise of young riders as we've seen over the last few years?

A few years ago, there was mutterings of this new Crispr "gene-therapy". It's all gone silent. Do you reckon anything's up with that?

Agreed, the disparity of doping levels is the eyebrow raising part for me. Intuitively I’d be surprised if it really is as simple as EPO and blood bags but maybe they’ve found better ways to get around the system. I also have a hard time believing it’s as simple as the UCI looking the other way since there have already been teams that are suspect who have been completely blown away recently. It’s almost hard to believe the numbers they’re putting out even with a full doping regimen, not to mention the consistency. I have a feeling we’ll start to see some busts and learn more that way soon.

 

[Platonic]

You should ask yourself why almost a decade of dominance by one team (largely achieved with riders that were never expected to be GT contenders before) makes you less suspicious than one month of dominance by two different teams, to the point that you can adscribe the former to grey areas and loopholes while the latter registers as absolutely obvious cheating.

oh no, don’t get me wrong, it doesn’t. I’ve probably not phrased myself too well.
Cheating is cheating at the end of the day. It’s more a sort of feel of people taking the p*** TOO obviously that gets me.

like reading a good book. If you suddenly realise you’re reading you get pulled out of the story and can’t enjoy it for what it is. This is similar. It’s just too far to be able to enjoy the pretence that it could be legit.

That make any sense to anyone?

 

[yaco]

As we know professional athletes turn every page to find a competitive edge - Those with resources have access to cutting edge sports scientists/doctors etc - It could be they have found substances that are NOT on the WADA prohibited list - If this is the case nothing can be done for now.

 

[King Boonen]

Vayer & alleged FancyBears: https://www.chronoswatts.com/news/185/

TJV and UAE mainly.

Mod hat on:

Please provide a summary in English of any foreign language links.

Cheers,

KB.

 

[Notarobot]

Fancy Bear...seems like a lot of ***. Journalists cracking Telegram encryption Good luck with that.

 

[Mr.38%]

Mod hat on:

Please provide a summary in English of any foreign language links.

Cheers,

KB.

It's an alleged email thread between Vayer and somebody who claims to be from FancyBears. In the end it's unclear if Vayer indeed received/s this/such enquiries or if it's all made up (the thread - not the allegations). And why does he publish it after such a long time?

 

[King Boonen]

It's an alleged email thread between Vayer and somebody who claims to be from FancyBears. In the end it's unclear if Vayer indeed received/s this/such enquiries or if it's all made up (the thread - not the allegations). And why does he publish it after such a long time?

Mod hat on:

Thanks. You mentioned both TJV and UAE in your first post. Could you please provide a translation/summary of the particular parts/reasons you mentioned them.

Cheers,

KB.

 

[Mr.38%]

I kindly ask anyone to use a translator because I would rather prefer to remove "TJV and UAE" from the original post and not translate allegations that are made up.

 

[King Boonen]

I kindly ask anyone to use a translator because I would rather prefer to remove "TJV and UAE" from the original post and not translate allegations that are made up.

Mod hat on:

If you're not willing to provide translations then please don't post links to foreign language articles.

Cheers,

KB.