State of the peloton 2022

[CannondaleCoaster]

Leo Hayter…

Three options for him:

• Biggest talent since Eddy Merckx
• There's blood in his doping products instead of doping products in his blood
• He took a vespa uphill since there was no TV coverage

 

[Mayomaniac]

Three options for him:

• Biggest talent since Eddy Merckx
• There's blood in his doping products instead of doping products in his blood
• He took a vespa uphill since there was no TV coverage

Some of the other top riders totally collapsed on the final climb, they did under 4 W/kg on that climb according to their Strava files.
The abnormal stage length for an u23 race combined with the rather extreme amount of climbing (for an u23 race) resulted in nearly everyone blowing up. Leo's numbers are actually rather tame and nothing like Ayuso climbing the Sestola climb a lot faster than the pros last year, it's like everyone else just rode like the stage would end after the penultimate climb and the following descent.

 

[CannondaleCoaster]

Some of the other top riders totally collapsed on the final climb, they did under 4 W/kg on that climb according to their Strava files.
The abnormal stage length for an u23 race combined with the rather extreme amount of climbing (for an u23 race) resulted in nearly everyone blowing up. Leo's numbers are actually rather tame and nothing like Ayuso climbing the Sestola climb a lot faster than the pros last year, it's like everyone else just rode like the stage would end after the penultimate climb and the following descent.

I was semi joking, but it's good that (necessary) context is being added

 

[pastronef]

Lenny Martinez tweeted saying he had a hunger knock as S.Kelly would say

 

[steffr222]

Some of the other top riders totally collapsed on the final climb, they did under 4 W/kg on that climb according to their Strava files.
The abnormal stage length for an u23 race combined with the rather extreme amount of climbing (for an u23 race) resulted in nearly everyone blowing up. Leo's numbers are actually rather tame and nothing like Ayuso climbing the Sestola climb a lot faster than the pros last year, it's like everyone else just rode like the stage would end after the penultimate climb and the following descent.

brilliant thanks for the context

 

[Mayomaniac]

brilliant thanks for the context

Thanks.
I mean, without being able to see the numbers of the guys who collapsed at the end one would think that this was the 2nd coming of Robobasso on the 2006 Aprica stage...

 

[F_Cance]

what's going on with Küng? Insane

 

[Krzysztof_O]

what's going on with Küng? Insane

Till this day he can't forget that he was beaten by Pogacar in his own speciality.
This year he decided to do the same to the Slovenian on the hardest mountain stage.

 

[Mayomaniac]

what's going on with Küng? Insane

Yeah, an 80kg guy like him doing this kind of stuff on a hard stage with short, steep hills is pretty outstanding.

 

[Rackham]

Yeah, an 80kg guy like him doing this kind of stuff on a hard stage with short, steep hills is pretty outstanding.

Indurain, sors de ce corps!

Aka Big Mig returns. Amazing 80kg of bulldozer power.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Indurain, sors de ce corps!

Aka Big Mig returns. Amazing 80kg of bulldozer power.

Just wait until we see Ganna at the Tour...

 

[roundabout]

I could be wrong, but I did not get an impression that the speed was very high on the last climb today

tbc

 

[Rackham]

Just wait until we see Ganna at the Tour...

I wrote over a year ago that we're seeing a return to the "glory days" of the mid 1990's & I stand by that.

Küng is just an obvious small microcosm of a far bigger picture. And in that "bigger picture" aka the state of the peloton, let's see whether the Alpe D'Huez provides some hilarity in the TdF next month. Pog will have to go full gas & we'll see what's what.

And this is just me, but if we're forced to watch PED sports & in cycling in particular, I much prefer the old fashioned "pot belge" techniques which gave rise to someone like Indurain rather than Froomey hitting the accelerator button on the 2013 Ventoux.

I could be wrong, but I did not get an impression that the speed was very high on the last climb today

tbc

Still fast enough to drop Evenepoel. And yes, insert all the caveats re Covid situation etc.

But an 80kg guy sitting next to climbers going into the final km of an hors catégorie col (when he started the climb in the same group) is a remarkable sight.

 

[Ripper]

Indurain, sors de ce corps!

Aka Big Mig returns. Amazing 80kg of bulldozer power.

Like a buffalo ...

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Indurain, sors de ce corps!

Aka Big Mig returns. Amazing 80kg of bulldozer power.

Kung had ridden pan y agua his whole career until he discovered strong doping products (according to dr Ferrari): cheese and naps.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

I wrote over a year ago that we're seeing a return to the "glory days" of the mid 1990's & I stand by that.

Küng is just an obvious small microcosm of a far bigger picture. And in that "bigger picture" aka the state of the peloton, let's see whether the Alpe D'Huez provides some hilarity in the TdF next month. Pog will have to go full gas & we'll see what's what.

And this is just me, but if we're forced to watch PED sports & in cycling in particular, I much prefer the old fashioned "pot belge" techniques which gave rise to someone like Indurain rather than Froomey hitting the accelerator button on the 2013 Ventoux.



Still fast enough to drop Evenepoel. And yes, insert all the caveats re Covid situation etc.

But an 80kg guy sitting next to climbers going into the final km of an hors catégorie col (when he started the climb in the same group) is a remarkable sight.

The GC group did 5.5w/kg and he was still dropped from them. Küng is in good form but there's nothing outrageous about that. As for return to the mid 90s. People have been predicting someone to beat Pantanis Alpe d'Huez for years now and it never happens despite all the improvements and trains established from the base.

 

[Rackham]

The GC group did 5.5w/kg and he was still dropped from them. Küng is in good form but there's nothing outrageous about that. As for return to the mid 90s. People have been predicting someone to beat Pantanis Alpe d'Huez for years now and it never happens despite all the improvements and trains established from the base.

Too much watts talk for me. I don't believe numbers have ever told the full story.

It's "who" he's climbing with & who has already been dropped which tells us more because the conditions on the day are the same for everyone, unlike watts comparisons which are affected by stage profiles, heat, wind, average speed & cumulated race days (among other details as well). Küng has looked fantastic all season but this goes an extra level & gear. That climb irrespective of the data presented online was still selective, i.e. that means some could do it, others couldn't. Küng could.

As for Alpe, I've wanted someone to go all in from the foot since Lance 2001, i.e. because despite his superman powers he'd injected himself with, his climb sort of stagnated towards the end. He built a huge gap on Ullrich (1:30) very quickly & then Ullrich maintained the gap a little (2 minutes I believe).

I think top form Pogacar in one of those Planche des Belles Filles moods could beat Lance & give Pantani's record a shot. But, I feel the race probably won't present the right conditions, especially with the two Jumbos playing cat & mouse games. That sort of race tactic tends to slow down the group, then accelerate, then slow again (a bit like the 2003 climb which Mayo won).

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Too much watts talk for me. I don't believe numbers have ever told the full story.

It's "who" he's climbing with & who has already been dropped which tells us more because the conditions on the day are the same for everyone, unlike watts comparisons which are affected by stage profiles, heat, wind, average speed & cumulated race days (among other details as well). Küng has looked fantastic all season but this goes an extra level & gear. That climb irrespective of the data presented online was still selective, i.e. that means some could do it, others couldn't. Küng could.

As for Alpe, I've wanted someone to go all in from the foot since Lance 2001, i.e. because despite his superman powers he'd injected himself with, his climb sort of stagnated towards the end. He built a huge gap on Ullrich (1:30) very quickly & then Ullrich maintained the gap a little (2 minutes I believe).

I think top form Pogacar in one of those Planche des Belles Filles moods could beat Lance & give Pantani's record a shot. But, I feel the race probably won't present the right conditions, especially with the two Jumbos playing cat & mouse games. That sort of race tactic tends to slow down the group, then accelerate, then slow again (a bit like the 2003 climb which Mayo won).

After the carnage of Granon Alpe can be pretty calm this year without fireworks. 38 minutes on Alpe (like Armstrong's 2001) is doable for peak Pogacar (at least according to my VAM estimations) but Pantani's record is out of reach for anyone in foreseeable future. The guy was super-talented lightweight climber in the peak of EPO-era.

 

[BR2]

Too much watts talk for me. I don't believe numbers have ever told the full story.

It's "who" he's climbing with & who has already been dropped which tells us more because the conditions on the day are the same for everyone, unlike watts comparisons which are affected by stage profiles, heat, wind, average speed & cumulated race days (among other details as well). Küng has looked fantastic all season but this goes an extra level & gear. That climb irrespective of the data presented online was still selective, i.e. that means some could do it, others couldn't. Küng could.

As for Alpe, I've wanted someone to go all in from the foot since Lance 2001, i.e. because despite his superman powers he'd injected himself with, his climb sort of stagnated towards the end. He built a huge gap on Ullrich (1:30) very quickly & then Ullrich maintained the gap a little (2 minutes I believe).

I think top form Pogacar in one of those Planche des Belles Filles moods could beat Lance & give Pantani's record a shot. But, I feel the race probably won't present the right conditions, especially with the two Jumbos playing cat & mouse games. That sort of race tactic tends to slow down the group, then accelerate, then slow again (a bit like the 2003 climb which Mayo won).

I agree that numbers are not more than an indication and that it's more important who's beaten (and at which stage of their season they are).
Overall I find Küng's perfomances definitely eyebrow-raising, although I would add that it doesn't seem easy at the moment to really establish some kind of decent pecking order. Performances seem to be a bit all over the place. I would guess that covid and its consequences, plus all those other illnesses, have messed up several riders's form and rhythm. The heat is not totally exceptional, but overall the weather conditions ARE getting more extreme and can play a role, too. And then there's the fight against relegation which seems to either fuel some more doping or at least makes a lot of teams target specific races and have a different seasonal/preparation rhythm than in other seasons.

Regarding Alpe d'Huez I don't think a new performance will tell us all, but it's going to be interesting to see what will happen this year, anyway, just as another factor/indicator.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Too much watts talk for me. I don't believe numbers have ever told the full story.

It's "who" he's climbing with & who has already been dropped which tells us more because the conditions on the day are the same for everyone, unlike watts comparisons which are affected by stage profiles, heat, wind, average speed & cumulated race days (among other details as well). Küng has looked fantastic all season but this goes an extra level & gear. That climb irrespective of the data presented online was still selective, i.e. that means some could do it, others couldn't. Küng could.

As for Alpe, I've wanted someone to go all in from the foot since Lance 2001, i.e. because despite his superman powers he'd injected himself with, his climb sort of stagnated towards the end. He built a huge gap on Ullrich (1:30) very quickly & then Ullrich maintained the gap a little (2 minutes I believe).

I think top form Pogacar in one of those Planche des Belles Filles moods could beat Lance & give Pantani's record a shot. But, I feel the race probably won't present the right conditions, especially with the two Jumbos playing cat & mouse games. That sort of race tactic tends to slow down the group, then accelerate, then slow again (a bit like the 2003 climb which Mayo won).

I agree that one shouldn't overemphasize watts only but even if you go by "Who did he climb with, who has already dropped" I wasn't really impressed by who Küng left behind. It was a pitiful leftover peleton after all the dropouts and who exactly was behind him apart from Evenepoel who clearly has other issues this race? Mighty Hugo Houl or Andreas Kron? I mean Michael Mathews arrived only 1:20 behind Küng...

I agree that Pogacar could beat various Armstrong performances, no chance about peak 90s times tho. The bloodbag era of the 00s gets overrated compared to the unlimited EPO era, peak climbing performances are all from 94-99.

 

[Ripper]

Well, not very long to wait for Pogacar to get all alien.

 

[Rackham]

Just something Pog related:

Well, not very long to wait for Pogacar to get all alien.

He hasn't done an individual time trial in competition since early March (Tirreno). I'm maybe way off the mark here but looking back at all previous TdF winners (Pog included), that seems like an eternity for someone who is favorite to win the TdF (& do well in the ITT's as well... or even smash them).

Dauphiné ITT, Suisse ITT, Romandie ITT & national championship ITT etc. are the usual warm-up races for TdF contenders & winners. It always seemed 'normal' (as much as stuff can be normal in the pro peloton) for Tour contenders to at least test their TT equipment, positioning etc. in an actual race before the TdF.

But as Pog apparently isn't doing the Slovenian National Championships, he's going into the Tour with very little time on the TT bike in a real race this year.

It could be nothing but I still find this unusual.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Just something Pog related:



He hasn't done an individual time trial in competition since early March (Tirreno). I'm maybe way off the mark here but looking back at all previous TdF winners (Pog included), that seems like an eternity for someone who is favorite to win the TdF (& do well in the ITT's as well... or even smash them).

Dauphiné ITT, Suisse ITT, Romandie ITT & national championship ITT etc. are the usual warm-up races for TdF contenders & winners. It always seemed 'normal' (as much as stuff can be normal in the pro peloton) for Tour contenders to at least test their TT equipment, positioning etc. in an actual race before the TdF.

But as Pog apparently isn't doing the Slovenian National Championships, he's going into the Tour with very little time on the TT bike in a real race this year.

It could be nothing but I still find this unusual.

Yeah, it's a long time indeed and he's done only 22 km of TTs this year on top of that

 

[GuntherL1]

The team doctor of Intermarché is performing miracles.

 

[Ripper]

Just something Pog related:



He hasn't done an individual time trial in competition since early March (Tirreno). I'm maybe way off the mark here but looking back at all previous TdF winners (Pog included), that seems like an eternity for someone who is favorite to win the TdF (& do well in the ITT's as well... or even smash them).

Dauphiné ITT, Suisse ITT, Romandie ITT & national championship ITT etc. are the usual warm-up races for TdF contenders & winners. It always seemed 'normal' (as much as stuff can be normal in the pro peloton) for Tour contenders to at least test their TT equipment, positioning etc. in an actual race before the TdF.

But as Pog apparently isn't doing the Slovenian National Championships, he's going into the Tour with very little time on the TT bike in a real race this year.

It could be nothing but I still find this unusual.

Oh it's totally unusual, so I expect him to drop people by minutes.

Do you remember Sky's coming out year when Wiggo was winning everything and was not peaking, but just staying at "95%"? That was also weird.