State of the Peloton 2025

[Red Rick]

Sorry for the double post here and quoting you again, but I'll answer your Pog thread post in this clinic because that's where my response belongs: Pog can win Roubaix because he's going to be doped up to his eyeballs.

That's the gist of it, Rick.

And what I've seen of Pog in recent years (& other riders) is when they're 'on form' and juiced on whatever cocktail these teams employ these days, then the power in their legs translates to all terrains. Flat, hilly, HC cols, cobbles, whatever.

It's how la Planche des Belles Filles ITT happened. He atomized Rog on the flat that day. Pog is what we'd call a super responder (so is everyone's fisherman friend as well). So on days when he's 'responding', it doesn't matter what race it is, he'll perform like he's riding a motorcycle.

In my view it's just wrong to view the Pogacars of 2020, 2022 and 2024 through the same lens.

In hindsight, I don't think Planche stands out by that much anymore if we also accept the fact that Roglic frankly rode a terrible ITT. Roglic' 2 TTs were just off in 2020, even the Vuelta one despite the fact that he scraped by and won it.

In 2022 he just was just climbing worse than Vingegaard as a whole, and then he also made several attacks on Spandelles before crashing in the descent. Pogacar's climbing time on Hautacam was slower than Nibali for example, and Nibali practically solo'd the thing. 2022 Pogacar would look pretty vincible in 2025.

As for Roubaix, I agree we need the Geiger counters at the ready, but it's not like MvdP is likely to be of the cleanest inclination.

Frankly I don't think Pogacar is doing the spring at the same level as he did in the Tour last year. And even in that Tour he tried to drop Vingegaard on flat gravel but he kinda struggled to do it and couldn't stay away when Vingegaard got help from Jorgenson.

 

[Ripper]

It seems pretty nigh impossible to have a robust conversation about Pog's racing without it being in the clinic

 

[Lequack]

Something to take note of

View: https://youtu.be/4uPDfuC3Jck?si=opQt_ZOxO6-H1fE9

 

[Peyroteo94]

UAE is better than ever!

 

[noob]

UAE is better than ever!

I never like it when one team wraps up everything. Least it's a team like QS that has/had a slightly lower budget.

 

[Unchained]

I never like it when one team wraps up everything. Least it's a team like QS that has/had a slightly lower budget.

Last 2 days at Basque country show you tons of quality, yes from UAE but also from alumni like Hirschi but others from QS, EF and Movistar, people putting down some serious wattage and positive confident racing. If UAE is such the super team someone needs to tell riders like Ben Healy that he should be afraid, race negative, don't attack but instead counter the moves of public proclaimed greatness like Joao Almeida, who raced more like an intelligent chess player than a Marvel movie hero. Someone needs to tell riders like Onley and Del Toro to not waste energy doing something bold and that sitting in is the smart play.. Del Toro was 2,3 stupid moves,2,3 gels away from a win or podium today..21 and always learning.. Mas raced great created moves didn't always follow.. and again today Alex Aranburu rode with no regard for his GC standing, made lots of moves that didn't work out ultimately but that style of racing is fun to see, wheel sucking for safety is boring!!
Giro is really shaping up!!! Ineos also showing signs of limited life, but is alive!!

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

So, how many UCI wins are we looking at for UAE this year? 100? Everyone on that team is nuclear at this point, they're winning left and right. It's really sad to see.

Already up to 27. The domination continues. Almeida is certainly having a career-best season, and Del Toro is right there with him to completely dominate Itzulia. More than a quarter of the way to the 100 wins and we haven't even really seen Pogi in action yet. No shame, no brakes, no point in trying to hide anything any longer when the general public just eats up raw whatever this unscrupulous sports washing project plates for them.

 

[AmRacer]

Already up to 27. The domination continues. Almeida is certainly having a career-best season, and Del Toro is right there with him to completely dominate Itzulia. More than a quarter of the way to the 100 wins and we haven't even really seen Pogi in action yet. No shame, no brakes, no point in trying to hide anything any longer when the general public just eats up raw whatever this unscrupulous sports washing project plates for them.

Remco hasn't raced yet
Jonas has a racing pause
Roglic took a few wins, but that's all.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Covi continues the UAE onslaught. Up to 28 now. Gianetti will continue his circus unashamedly.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Back in february I thought we would be having more discussions here this year about movistar, but their flying start to the season didn't really last. Same for bahrain

Decathlon ag2r don't seem to have maintained their level from last year, and I don't know wtf is happening in Visma. What they did in 2021-23 was totally absurd compared to this year

Bora also don't really seem that good.

The gap between the 'mutants' and the rest seems wider than ever, rather than team making the difference (like quickstep 2019/21, Bahraini 2021, Visma 2020-23, sunweb 2017 etc) The only exception is maybe uae.

 

[Tim Cahill]

I heard a hilarious rumour that Piccolo was supplying Alberto Bettiol growth hormone that is used on horses. Wild I know, the guy who told me has a history of being both very wrong and very right so it could just be bollocks.

Recall Bettiol coming out very strongly against him so who knows. Who really cares at this point anyway, I think I'd probably do the same, hopefully he sorts Hugh Carthy out, guy looks like he needs it.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I heard a hilarious rumour that Piccolo was supplying Alberto Bettiol growth hormone that is used on horses. Wild I know, the guy who told me has a history of being both very wrong and very right so it could just be bollocks.

Recall Bettiol coming out very strongly against him so who knows. Who really cares at this point anyway, I think I'd probably do the same, hopefully he sorts Hugh Carthy out, guy looks like he needs it.

Not heard anything about the horse steroids, but it's not the first time I've read something implying that whatever piccolo was carrying was for bettiol

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Who really cares at this point anyway, I think I'd probably do the same, hopefully he sorts Hugh Carthy out, guy looks like he needs it.

Talk about drugging a dead horse.

 

[houtdffan]

Cycling is becoming too fast: Winning time of 2019 Paris-Roubaix would be OTL in 2025

Just like most of nowadays races, also Paris-Roubaix is becoming faster and faster thanks to many new innovations. This year's edition was in fact so fast that the winner from just six years ago would...

cyclinguptodate.com

think this says it all. PR winning time 6 years ago would not even be classified this year.

At least it's slower than last year's CO huffing contest

 

[Ricco']

Not heard anything about the horse steroids, but it's not the first time I've read something implying that whatever piccolo was carrying was for bettiol

And Bettiol got discarded pretty easily by EF in the middle of the season, few months after the Piccolo news.

Piccolo was busted June 21st, few days before TdF, the last and only race Bettiol did for them after.

"Whilst the Italian hadn't been notably struggling, Bettiol had according to EF Education - EasyPost boss Jonathan Vaughters on Discovery+, been complaining over the last few days of having pains in his legs. " justification for TDF DNF.

Has been a no show after that.

 

[Rackham]

Cycling is becoming too fast: Winning time of 2019 Paris-Roubaix would be OTL in 2025

Just like most of nowadays races, also Paris-Roubaix is becoming faster and faster thanks to many new innovations. This year's edition was in fact so fast that the winner from just six years ago would...

cyclinguptodate.com

think this says it all. PR winning time 6 years ago would not even be classified this year.

At least it's slower than last year's CO huffing contest

I saw this article posted on the peloton sub- reddit and to no surprise there's dozens upon dozens of people there handwaving this data and defending modern speeds, i.e. with the usual excuses like tail wind, gear, whatever.

It shows the same principle that applied back in the 1990's still applies today, i.e. people want to believe in miracles. So the people who point a finger and say "okay, this looks like organised doping on a grand scale to me" get shouted down.

The 'tragedy' of the L.A. scandal was everything was pinned on one man instead of shining a light on an entire sport and the majority of its actors.

 

[danielovichdk2]

If races in the pro peloton has increased in speed, why would local races not do the same ?

It's a question I have asked myself since the subjects around nutrition, gear and training has become the defacto narrative around why speed has gone up.

Wouldn't it be plausible for the amateurs to also race faster since they adopt the same techniques as the pros ? The literature is available to everyone and information is shared, so it should be doable to question this aspect.

 

[Sciatic]

If races in the pro peloton has increased in speed, why would local races not do the same ?

It's a question I have asked myself since the subjects around nutrition, gear and training has become the defacto narrative around why speed has gone up.

Wouldn't it be plausible for the amateurs to also race faster since they adopt the same techniques as the pros ? The literature is available to everyone and information is shared, so it should be doable to question this aspect.

Interesting point. Most amateurs wouldn’t be able to afford or get access to the same kind performance enhancers (legal and illegal) the top pro teams do.

 

[Cookster15]

Fascinating article. But not sure I agree that nutrition is anything more than a minor contributor to speed increases. Nutrition has always been a big focus in endurance sports it didn’t suddenly become more advanced since 2020. I come from an Ironman triathlon background and we focused hugely on nutrition back in the 90s.

I’d say speed increases are more about how the peloton races these days. I might even suggest that since Pogacar’s arrival the rest of the peloton has been forced to up their game. I am more interested in climbing times. I am still gobsmacked by stage 15 in the TdF.

 

[danielovichdk2]

Fascinating article. But not sure I agree that nutrition is anything more than a minor contributor to speed increases. Nutrition has always been a big focus in endurance sports it didn’t suddenly become more advanced since 2020. I come from an Ironman triathlon background and we focused hugely on nutrition back in the 90s.

I’d say speed increases are more about how the peloton races these days. I might even suggest that since Pogacar’s arrival the rest of the peloton has been forced to up their game. I am more interested in climbing times. I am still gobsmacked by stage 15 in the TdF.

The whole story around Pogacar is ridiculous and not trustworthy at all. History is quiet clear and even though i am not saying it repeats itself, it is a fine guiding stick.

But the money flowing into sport has put a stop to how we were used to find cheaters. It's no longer amateur hour for some of these athletes. Even though you can still get flabbergasted over some of the things they try to convince us about. E.g Mads Pedersen only last year started to weigh his food. Wait, what ?

Based on Pogacars race schedule and his results, he is on a different level of professionalism which is probably made available through top notch hires in the team. I don't think these boys are doing it old school EPO style, they have access to other options just as capable but not listed as illegal. But I might be naive.

Tdf stage 19 was also an absolutely ridiculous show of power.

 

[Gratemans]

Even though you can still get flabbergasted over some of the things they try to convince us about. E.g Mads Pedersen only last year started to weigh his food. Wait, what ?

I'm actually willing to believe that. If I remember correctly, also never went on altitude training untill this year because he "didn't believe in it".

 

[Mayomaniac]

Cleanest guy on UAE probably still has fleas, lice and scabies...

 

[scribers]

Skeljmose was wheel doping

 

[Ripper]

The whole story around Pogacar is ridiculous and not trustworthy at all. History is quiet clear and even though i am not saying it repeats itself, it is a fine guiding stick.

But the money flowing into sport has put a stop to how we were used to find cheaters. It's no longer amateur hour for some of these athletes. Even though you can still get flabbergasted over some of the things they try to convince us about. E.g Mads Pedersen only last year started to weigh his food. Wait, what ?

Based on Pogacars race schedule and his results, he is on a different level of professionalism which is probably made available through top notch hires in the team. I don't think these boys are doing it old school EPO style, they have access to other options just as capable but not listed as illegal. But I might be naive.

Tdf stage 19 was also an absolutely ridiculous show of power.

What legal options are you referring to? I don't doubt there are cocktails of different substances, some prescribed (albeit ethically/morally grey or full on 'bad'). I also am pretty skeptical we are seeing clean racing with no illegal assistance, given how unnatural some of the accelerations and sustainment can look in a fully nuclear race; I don't know what is being used, but the rocket accelerations and then cruising away suggests it would be more than a microdosing of EPO.

And yes, the TdF was a ridiculous show of power. We've actually seen a lot of ridiculous power shows over the past couple of years. Today's race actually looked more like a real race than many I have seen of late.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Skeljmose was wheel doping

Nah, only actual doping in the junior ranks...