State of the Peloton 2025

[Rob5091]

UCI confirms Tolhoek ban -
https://velo.outsideonline.com/news/antwan-tolhoek-receives-4-year-ban-for-anabolic-steroids

Dutch climber Antwan Tolhoek was slapped with a four-year ban after testing positive for anabolic androgenic steroids, the UCI confirmed Wednesday. Tolhoek — who formerly raced with Jumbo-Visma and Trek-Segafredo — tested positive for anabolic steroids in November 2023 in an out-of-competition control. ...Tolhoek, 31, is facing ineligibility from February 7, 2024, through February 6, 2028, officials said.

Previous post -
https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/state-of-the-peloton-2024.39391/page-3#post-2954654

 

[houtdffan]

I wonder if Mapei and the Bank Robbers got a Mayo-like UCI letter to tone things down a bit, whereas Saunier-Duval are still going full steam ahead?

 

[Mayomaniac]

I wonder if Mapei and the Bank Robbers got a Mayo-like UCI letter to tone things down a bit, whereas Saunier-Duval are still going full steam ahead?

I was thinking about that one too. Or the rest is really struggling to find anything to replace the monoxide sniffing, while UAE is still doing good old transfusions, not having to fear a passport violation notification because their backers are pretty much paying off the UCI by hosting all kinds of cycling WCs over the next few years (e-cycling, urban cycling, master's/granfondo, track and RR WC).

Honestly, overall so many guys underperformed, from a numbers perspective it was slow. The 4 guys who finished behind Nibali in 2014, Pinot, Majka Peraud and TJVG, where all faster than Vauquelin and Evenepoel.

 

[houtdffan]

I was thinking about that one too. Or the rest is really struggling to find anything to replace the monoxide sniffing, while UAE is still doing good old transfusions, not having to fear a passport violation notification because their backers are pretty much paying off the UCI by hosting all kinds of cycling WCs over the next few years (e-cycling, urban cycling, master's/granfondo, track and RR WC).

Honestly, overall so many guys underperformed, from a numbers perspective it was slow. The 4 guys who finished behind Nibali in 2014, Pinot, Majka Peraud and TJVG, where all faster than Vauquelin and Evenepoel.

the CO had to be stopped. That literally is the same gas that was used at TREBLINKA in WW2!

Think about how crazy that was last year. Now, just need to keep the playing field level by stopping Saunier-Duval from doing whatever they are doing

 

[Forever The Best]

To be fair even Pogacar wasn't on last years absolute level (Plateau de Beille, Isola 2000 as well IIRC), but Vingegaard and Evenepoel were much worse.

Leads another question about what was going on last year, and why Pogacar got affected less by what happened over the year.
At least this was a performance humanly possible with normal doping as Riis showed unlike Plateau de Beille last year which really raised questions of motors.
Maybe the difference between the 2 years is the ban of carbon monoxide.

 

[b0ydman]

Let's guess the records to be broken and by how much - stage 13, should be the biggest chance for a rocket fuel win -
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...ders-climb-2025-tour-de-france-record-setting

Have we seen enough grand tours to not know they save it for the last climbs, and see what happens up until then?

Maybe the competitors know they can't beat them on the saddle, so why red zone it early wait to see if they crash out?

Maybe? I dunno. Its barely interesting now

 

[b0ydman]

Christopher Froome has deleted all tweets mentioning his soigneur, known doping supplier David Rozman (Who deleted his twitter account on Sunday).

Funny thing about that...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1944719988616552645

https://twitter.com/x/status/1945168516690203126

You picked this up pretty early

I look forward to some Knighthoods being revoked

 

[AmRacer]

To be fair even Pogacar wasn't on last years absolute level (Plateau de Beille, Isola 2000 as well IIRC), but Vingegaard and Evenepoel were much worse.

Leads another question about what was going on last year, and why Pogacar got affected less by what happened over the year.
At least this was a performance humanly possible with normal doping as Riis showed unlike Plateau de Beille last year which really raised questions of motors.
Maybe the difference between the 2 years is the ban of carbon monoxide.

Laast year, Remco and Jonas come back from a terrible crash. They got better prep this year, yes I know the door and concussion but still.

 

[b0ydman]

the CO had to be stopped. That literally is the same gas that was used at TREBLINKA in WW2!

Think about how crazy that was last year. Now, just need to keep the playing field level by stopping Saunier-Duval from doing whatever they are doing

Crazy stuff isn't it. Imagine being the human "test dummy" the doctors use as their control and measurement.

CO is also the stuff that blows out of the back of team cars, which run on standard fuel....................plus whatever additive they put in the petrol tank that day..."get behind the car boys we're about to pull the choke"

 

[Rackham]

I wonder whether there's too much focus on teams being the underlying factor on the medical side (like dating back pre-98) and not individual riders with their network of coaching staff, soigneurs and other 'friends' who provide the good stuff. I'm thinking a team like EF is a good example here because they reportedly let their riders prepare for races by themselves doing their own thing. It could explain why there's disparities between the level of riders on the same teams and no real logic behind 'who' is red hot on form versus who isn't.

For example with all due respect to Sepp Kuss, he looks like he's riding paniagua. That could be an individual choice to tone it down since xyz reasons. Meanwhile someone like Kévin Vauquelin needs a contract because his team is going bust at the end of the season so he's on fire here in this TdF. It's often simple explanations that make the most sense.

UAE obviously has a more hands-on approach but even then it's not totally consistent. Adam Yates for example is really bad now.

 

[Pozzovivo]

There is something about seeing Campanaerts drop Evenepoel on Soulor and Narvaez drop everyone but Pog on Hautacam that just doesen't feel right. I don't understand how these two teams manage to get their support riders to a whole new level every Tour.

Follows the tradition of Laporte and Politt being super climbers all of a sudden.

 

[peterfin]

I wanted to post this here because I think it shows the feeling of many riders. Not everyone is on a "program":

Dylan Teuns is always brutally honest in his analyses, even when it comes to himself. “That I’m riding an anonymous Tour? Absolutely,” he wholeheartedly agrees with Sammy Neyrinck.


“I find it incredibly disappointing to have to admit that, but I can’t argue with it. It’s just that there are many other riders in the same boat.”


“I still train just as hard as I did two or three years ago, and the numbers I record are still good. But then you get into the race, and those numbers don’t mean anything anymore.”

FYI: Dylan Teuns is a 2x TdF stage winner, a Fleche Walone winner and in his younger years a winner of multiple 1-week races.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Bardet yesterday (he's the "bike consultant" for eurosport in French): "Seeing Politt able to control a whole group containing team leaders is... strange"

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

I wanted to post this here because I think it shows the feeling of many riders. Not everyone is on a "program":

Dylan Teuns is always brutally honest in his analyses, even when it comes to himself. “That I’m riding an anonymous Tour? Absolutely,” he wholeheartedly agrees with Sammy Neyrinck.


“I find it incredibly disappointing to have to admit that, but I can’t argue with it. It’s just that there are many other riders in the same boat.”


“I still train just as hard as I did two or three years ago, and the numbers I record are still good. But then you get into the race, and those numbers don’t mean anything anymore.”

FYI: Dylan Teuns is a 2x TdF stage winner, a Fleche Walone winner and in his younger years a winner of multiple 1-week races.

Yet people want to pretend nothing at all is going on…

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Yet people want to pretend nothing at all is going on…

Marion Rousse today : "Long gone are the days when Tim Wellens couldn't stand the heat"

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Marion Rousse today : "Long gone are the days when Tim Wellens couldn't stand the heat"

Wonder how he became good in hot weather at age 34… just rider progression according to some.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Tim wellens in July hahahahaahahahah. Thanks gianetti for gifting me my summer weekends back

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

So after today, the wonderboys are already up to 60 wins this season. It's ridiculous. An utter clown show.

65 wins now for UAE with Wellens chipping in. This train has no breaks. This kind of completely unhinged, shameless, brazen greed is completely in line with their title sponsor. If they were handed a solid gold medal, they would ask for it to also be gold-plated, because gold in and of its own is just not enough. "Much wants more;" hopefully, we'll also get to the "and loses all" part sooner rather than later.

 

[kingjr]

Wonder how he became good in hot weather at age 34… just rider progression according to some.

Lots of heat training sessions on the indoor trainer.

 

[Notarobot]

I'm 40+ years old now. Starting heat training tomorrow. Better watch out UAE, you are all on my blacklist.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Lots of heat training sessions on the indoor trainer.

Heat training, which has famously been invented circa 2024, is exclusive to UAE, and can completely transform a rider from "I can barely finish when it's hot" to "I'm a beast nowadays".

Now to believe that explanation, i'd have to be dumb, and i'd also have to believe that Lotto was dumb (Actually you might be onto something here) and that Wellens was too before joining UAE.

 

[kingjr]

Heat training, which has famously been invented circa 2024, is exclusive to UAE, and can completely transform a rider from "I can barely finish when it's hot" to "I'm a beast nowadays".

Now to believe that explanation, i'd have to be dumb, and i'd also have to believe that Lotto was dumb (Actually you might be onto something here) and that Wellens was too before joining UAE.

What's that based on? Do you have any information regarding how many teams and riders are doing heat training? (which is not the same as "training in the heat", btw) and since when?

I mean what you're saying is essentially that Wellens already did heat training during his Lotto years, and also in the past years at UAE, but it never worked, only this year it did thanks to some new juice that happens to solve specifically that problem.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

What's that based on? Do you have any information regarding how many teams and riders are doing heat training? (which is not the same as "training in the heat", btw) and since when?

I mean what you're saying is essentially that Wellens already did heat training during his Lotto years, and also in the past years at UAE, but it never worked, only this year it did thanks to some new juice that happens to solve specifically that problem.

Yeah i was a bit cryptic and sarcastic, apologies for that.

What i'm saying is that heat adaptation training (an yeah i know that it's different from training in the heat) is not anything new (It's more "in the news" nowadays, undeniably, but the concept isn't new) and that Wellens abundantly talked in the Belgian press about his struggles with the heat and sun allergy while he was at Lotto, and that he was indeed doing heat adaptation training there, with mixed results (he went from being completely unable to perform in the heat to being inconsistent, and he still avoided GT that would take place in the heat at lotto).

Now there's quite the contrast between Lotto Wellens and UAE Wellens, there are actually "grey zone" drugs (Bupropion was researched for that purpose in the 201x for instance) that can help with that, or that "just" having his threshold pushed upwards by 20-30 watts might help him tremendously there. So yes, i think there might be somehing fishy behind it, and i'm not the only one it seems.

 

[kingjr]

Yeah i was a bit cryptic and sarcastic, apologies for that.

What i'm saying is that heat adaptation training (an yeah i know that it's different from training in the heat) is not anything new (It's more "in the news" nowadays, undeniably, but the concept isn't new) and that Wellens abundantly talked in the Belgian press about his struggles with the heat and sun allergy while he was at Lotto, and that he was indeed doing heat adaptation training there, with mixed results (he went from being completely unable to perform in the heat to being inconsistent, and he still avoided GT that would take place in the heat at lotto).

Now there's quite the contrast between Lotto Wellens and UAE Wellens, there are actually "grey zone" drugs (Bupropion was researched for that purpose in the 201x for instance) that can help with that, or that "just" having his threshold pushed upwards by 20-30 watts might help him tremendously there. So yes, i think there might be somehing fishy behind it, and i'm not the only one it seems.

Is Lotto too dumb to know about these drugs? Was UAE until this year?

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Is Lotto too dumb to know about these drugs? Was UAE until this year?

They might very well be reluctant to use them, Wellens was very vocal about is refusal to use TUEs here, but crickets since he is at UAE. Or it could simply be chalked as "lotto doing lotto stuff", they were never the most inventive team.

As for UAE, the marked improvement of Wellens in the heat dates from this year and the "pogi can't stand the heat" thing was always overblown, so yes, maybe, but i also stated that it might simply be an effect of the threshold boost Wellens got there. Or are you pretending that there isn't a marked difference between lotto and UAE Wellens? I mean a former pro female cyclist made a sarcastic remark to that effect live just today...