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Steakgate latest: Contador positive for Clenbuterol in four different tests

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Jun 19, 2009
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webvan said:
That's one less "excuse" the next time it happens!
I'm sure there are some unsavory folks processing soybeans with unclean water somewhere. That will be the next excuse...it's environmental.
 
Oldman said:
I'm sure there are some unsavory folks processing soybeans with unclean water somewhere. That will be the next excuse...it's environmental.
As a matter of fact, Contador's defense documents included a study that claimed you can get clen in your body by drinking water. :D
 
Mar 19, 2009
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So as an athlete who was never tested, I would best get my steak from a quality butcher that does the butching himself, and thus ensures a short time between the clen administration and my consumption, to have the optimal health benefits? :)
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Jueves, 10 de febrero del 2011 - 03:00h. | Berto will be acquitted

'Parte de los juristas del comité de competición de la Federación Española de Ciclismo aceptan las alegaciones de Contador'

(http://www.elperiodico.com/es/noticias/deportes/20110210/parte-los-juristas-del-comite-competicion-federacion-espanola-ciclismo-aceptan-las-alegaciones-contador/701175.shtml)

being in good hands now as I already stated ...


Them infidels WADA/UCI etc. will get the bill to pay, for destroying pro sport in general with their unlawful/unconstitutional witch hunt.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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hrotha said:
As a matter of fact, Contador's defense documents included a study that claimed you can get clen in your body by drinking water. :D
Maybe if you drink water at Contador's house you could. If they knew that you'd think they would buy a cheap water filter.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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Oldman said:
Maybe if you drink water at Contador's house you could. If they knew that you'd think they would buy a cheap water filter.
Not what the Cologne lab director says....

In a 2009 scholarly paper co-authored by Prof. Wilhelm Schaenzer, the Cologne lab director, he and two other German experts concluded: "With a detectability of clenbuterol at this low concentration, positive findings in residue analysis and doping control could be due to the consumption of trace amounts found in [livestock] feed or principally also in the water supply. Threshold concentration amounts for clenbuterol in doping control have, therefore, to be considered in the future."
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=5634190
 
Jun 22, 2009
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peloton said:
you don't get it. no one is joking because contamination is impossible. the joking comes from the fact that most looking at the evidence in it's totality quickly come to the conclusion it's extremely unlikely and view contador's attempts to exploit a loophole as an insult to our intelligence.

i agree that a threshold should be considered but i also understand the pharmacokinetics of clenbuterol and why it's a difficult compromise to strike (an effective dose of clenbuterol is already very small by weight compared to other drugs and the half life is rather short). it's quite possible an appropriate threshold would be set too low to even help contador. just sayin'.

where do YOU think the lower threshold should be set? what value? why there, scientifically speaking?
 
Jun 19, 2009
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lean said:
you don't get it. no one is joking because contamination is impossible. the joking comes from the fact that most looking at the evidence in it's totality quickly come to the conclusion it's extremely unlikely and view contador's attempts to exploit a loophole as an insult to our intelligence.

i agree that a threshold should be considered but i also understand the pharmacokinetics of clenbuterol and why it's a difficult compromise to strike (an effective dose of clenbuterol is already very small by weight compared to other drugs and the half life is rather short). it's quite possible an appropriate threshold would be set too low to even help contador. just sayin'.

where do YOU think the lower threshold should be set? what value? why there, scientifically speaking?
And equally important to the levels is the actual incident. Contador shared the environment with his team and other contenders. Why just him and why the inconsistent reading for it? Possibility and actuality part company on this "evidence" if any logic is applied.
 
Sep 9, 2009
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Oldman said:
And equally important to the levels is the actual incident. Contador shared the environment with his team and other contenders. Why just him and why the inconsistent reading for it? Possibility and actuality part company on this "evidence" if any logic is applied.
He was the only team member who they stated ate the meat and was tested in the subsequent days.
 
Sep 9, 2009
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lean said:
you don't get it. no one is joking because contamination is impossible. the joking comes from the fact that most looking at the evidence in it's totality quickly come to the conclusion it's extremely unlikely and view contador's attempts to exploit a loophole as an insult to our intelligence.
The most I look at this, the more I think he should either be banned for transfusing or not banned at all - this sort of proxy prosecution is pretty unsatisfactory - if people genuinely thought his doping consisted of micro-dosing a drug of no value at that dose, they would be laughing, not clamouring for a ban, so why not just make an open case for the real underlying accusation.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Waterloo Sunrise said:
He was the only team member who they stated ate the meat and was tested in the subsequent days.
Yes that was then. I'm responding to the theory of environmental contamination. Surely Alberto wasn't the only one drinking the water and breathing the air?
 
lean said:
you don't get it. no one is joking because contamination is impossible. the joking comes from the fact that most looking at the evidence in it's totality quickly come to the conclusion it's extremely unlikely and view contador's attempts to exploit a loophole as an insult to our intelligence.

i agree that a threshold should be considered but i also understand the pharmacokinetics of clenbuterol and why it's a difficult compromise to strike (an effective dose of clenbuterol is already very small by weight compared to other drugs and the half life is rather short). it's quite possible an appropriate threshold would be set too low to even help contador. just sayin'.

where do YOU think the lower threshold should be set? what value? why there, scientifically speaking?
Are you for real? Can you spell the words witch hunt? Even if someone from the Cologne lab itself no less says that Clen needs a threshold you go scurrying around for reasons that this in itself should or would not help Contador in this particular case. It again begs the questions whether you are just guessing or do you have information we do not have. People like you are scary for whole bunch of reasons I can not mention here for the risk of being banned.

Regards
GJ
 
Mar 12, 2009
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lean said:
you don't get it. no one is joking because contamination is impossible. the joking comes from the fact that most looking at the evidence in it's totality quickly come to the conclusion it's extremely unlikely and view contador's attempts to exploit a loophole as an insult to our intelligence.

i agree that a threshold should be considered but i also understand the pharmacokinetics of clenbuterol and why it's a difficult compromise to strike (an effective dose of clenbuterol is already very small by weight compared to other drugs and the half life is rather short). it's quite possible an appropriate threshold would be set too low to even help contador. just sayin'.

where do YOU think the lower threshold should be set? what value? why there, scientifically speaking?
Take a chill pill, will you, jeez.

I was just quoting what the COLOGNE LAB DIRECTOR was saying.
Argue with him, not me. He did say in public that even water (!!) could cause a +test for clen. Feel free to prove him wrong.
 
peloton said:
Take a chill pill, will you, jeez.

I was just quoting what the COLOGNE LAB DIRECTOR was saying.
Argue with him, not me. He did say in public that even water (!!) could cause a +test for clen. Feel free to prove him wrong.
He won't, because he thinks WADA is infallible, the poor sod.:rolleyes:

Regards
GJ
 
Jun 22, 2009
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peloton said:
Take a chill pill, will you, jeez.].
i'm not sure what part of my post suggests it was written in an anxious or angry way?

peloton said:
I was just quoting what the COLOGNE LAB DIRECTOR was saying.
Argue with him, not me. He did say in public that even water (!!) could cause a +test for clen. Feel free to prove him wrong.
i never said he was wrong. i've always maintained that contamination is possible so there's really no need to disprove him. how likely it is, which he doesn't comment on, is another matter.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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GJB123 said:
Are you for real? Can you spell the words witch hunt? Even if someone from the Cologne lab itself no less says that Clen needs a threshold you go scurrying around for reasons that this in itself should or would not help Contador in this particular case. It again begs the questions whether you are just guessing or do you have information we do not have. People like you are scary for whole bunch of reasons I can not mention here for the risk of being banned.

Regards
GJ
sort of, but mostly it's just a better understanding of the information already out there.

as for my scurrying? um, no. the linked article and quotes surfaced in october. i've been ruminating about what an appropriate threshold for clenbuterol might actually be for months. hasn't everybody? seriously - you didn't ask yourself that question and then seek out an answer? you didn't try to gain perspective and try to determine what these values actually mean in relative terms? i think commenting on this case without that understanding would be, well...irresponsible. ;)
 

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