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Steakgate latest: Contador positive for Clenbuterol in four different tests

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Protein said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-have-receipt-for-contadors-steak-says-cook

Seems this is good news for Contador if they have the receipt for the steak. I think that would be enough to satisfy the UCI, and the blood doping test is not recognised yet so I think it's unlikely AC will receive any type of sanction.

But I still have some doubts on the clen issue. Is this Spanish chef just a fanboy? Why has it taken so long for him to claim they still have a receipt? It seems they would have found the receipt by now if they still have it, unless they get one that is backdated....
That article is the biggest, steamy load of crapola I've read in quite some time. I did not see one fact related in the entire text.

I'm not sure how the chef is useful in determining whether Contador is innocent. Why is his opinion relevant?

I'd love to believe it's all a big SNAFU, but sorry, that's up there with VDB's dog in the pantheon of doping excuses.
 
Apr 4, 2010
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I don't get it, really I don't. What would finding the recipe mean? I mean, as someone said early on in this thread, it isn't likely to be labeled "Contaminated with Clenbuterol", so why would finding the recipie do AC any good?

Second, wasn't one of the excuses that AC used to claim his innocence that the Clenbuterol only came up once in the tests, wich would indicate that he had ate some bad meat since if he actually had transfused, the Clenbuterol would be found in the other tests?

And why wasn't we told about these other positive test until now, after the trial?
 
Wow, that interview has turned out to be pretty interesting.

"Hey Alberto, look I have this letter you sent to the media back in 2006 when OP broke out. You said you had always tried to surround yourself with directors and doctors who were against doping. Say again, who's your current director? Barn Riis..."
"...huh, yeah, Bjarne Riis..."
"Bjarne Riis, right. You know what they called him?"
"..."
"Mr 60%. And you know why?"
"...huh..."
"That was his hematocrit. He doped, he admitted he based his career on doping. How do you reconcile that with your letter?"
"..... well...... the reason I'm so comfortable with him is that he admitted he doped, he acknowledged his mistake, he had the guts to admit it publicly and willingly so for me he has more credibility than anyone who denies their own doping"
MIND BLOWN
 
Jul 11, 2009
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Facts: Ac is positive tested for clen in stage 17 of last tour de france.before that day he was clean,ok?after stage 17 he was clean also,ok?do you believe that he dope with a week to go with that ridiculous quantity(5 picograms)is this a real advantage to win? I don't think so,tainted meat it's a real possibility,but most people preferes the other ...ac it's not n icon in a modern cycling scenario,lot of people enjoy more a boring stage won by cav instead of a contador victory uphill,anglosaxon influence in modern cycling is rising but they need to eliminate him no matter what,personally i will miss him,there is no climber like him,even last year in bad shape he dominates absolutely the race,with chaingate,and also with a peloton waiting for schlecks bros.in their face to face(testa a testa italians must said)in tourmalet no one can drop the other so for me its a fair victory.just one more thing,the accuracy of analysis in spanish meats probably far away to detect these quantity so small,so ac will hardly prove his innocence,sorry for him..
 
Jul 11, 2009
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Who denies his own doping?maybe mr armstrong,after 10 years you can admit you doped,no problem the 1996 tour will be for riis forever
 
Jun 19, 2009
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pistolero said:
Facts: Ac is positive tested for clen in stage 17 of last tour de france.before that day he was clean,ok?after stage 17 he was clean also,ok?do you believe that he dope with a week to go with that ridiculous quantity(5 picograms)is this a real advantage to win? I don't think so,tainted meat it's a real possibility,but most people preferes the other ...ac it's not n icon in a modern cycling scenario,lot of people enjoy more a boring stage won by cav instead of a contador victory uphill,anglosaxon influence in modern cycling is rising but they need to eliminate him no matter what,personally i will miss him,there is no climber like him,even last year in bad shape he dominates absolutely the race,with chaingate,and also with a peloton waiting for schlecks bros.in their face to face(testa a testa italians must said)in tourmalet no one can drop the other so for me its a fair victory.just one more thing,the accuracy of analysis in spanish meats probably far away to detect these quantity so small,so ac will hardly prove his innocence,sorry for him..
I'm going to presume this babble is the work of a bad translation program. The Meat of it, however; is still factually flawed. As are Contador's
argument(s).
 
Aug 13, 2009
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hrotha said:
Wow, that interview has turned out to be pretty interesting.

"Hey Alberto, look I have this letter you sent to the media back in 2006 when OP broke out. You said you had always tried to surround yourself with directors and doctors who were against doping. Say again, who's your current director? Barn Riis..."
"...huh, yeah, Bjarne Riis..."
"Bjarne Riis, right. You know what they called him?"
"..."
"Mr 60%. And you know why?"
"...huh..."
"That was his hematocrit. He doped, he admitted he based his career on doping. How do you reconcile that with your letter?"
"..... well...... the reason I'm so comfortable with him is that he admitted he doped, he acknowledged his mistake, he had the guts to admit it publicly and willingly so for me he has more credibility than anyone who denies their own doping"
MIND BLOWN
WOW

Manolo Siaz, Bruyneel, Pepi Marti, Martinelli, and Riis.
 
Apr 28, 2010
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hrotha said:
Wow, that interview has turned out to be pretty interesting.

"Hey Alberto, look I have this letter you sent to the media back in 2006 when OP broke out. You said you had always tried to surround yourself with directors and doctors who were against doping. Say again, who's your current director? Barn Riis..."
"...huh, yeah, Bjarne Riis..."
"Bjarne Riis, right. You know what they called him?"
"..."
"Mr 60%. And you know why?"
"...huh..."
"That was his hematocrit. He doped, he admitted he based his career on doping. How do you reconcile that with your letter?"
"..... well...... the reason I'm so comfortable with him is that he admitted he doped, he acknowledged his mistake, he had the guts to admit it publicly and willingly so for me he has more credibility than anyone who denies their own doping"
MIND BLOWN
Does he perhaps implicitly accuse other teams and people in cycling of doping? Might this be a veiled threat to go nuclear? Almost certainly not, but someone can hope:p
 
Sep 25, 2009
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red_flanders said:
I'd love to believe it's all a big SNAFU, but sorry, that's up there with VDB's dog in the pantheon of doping excuses.
whilst i still think that a blood transfusion is the likeliest option, i hold an opposite opinion to yours regarding the receipt story...

as i tried to show in several posts above, it’s easy to show that a conspiracy to forge a receipt about an illegal product (contaminated meat) would have involved a coordinated chorus of lies of almost 10 people from several different organizations with opposing self-interest. Some co-conspirators would have to lie for contador against their livelihood and freedom.

i’m still waiting for someone to explain why would astana management agree to cover up a forged receipt 5 weeks after the cook claimed he handed it over to them for a rider who (some say) made them look like fools by negotiationg behind their backs whilst publicly professing something else ?

or why a basque butcher, himself under a suspicion of illegal trade, agree to forge a receipt and risk his shop closed ?

shouldn’t at least one of so many loose ends and lies be easy to turn around ?

or were local basque police, guardia civil and food regulators also paid off to keep their mouths shut ?

i find it hard to believe that these questions wont be eventually asked..
 
Jun 22, 2009
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python said:
whilst i still think that a blood transfusion is the likeliest option, i hold an opposite opinion to yours regarding the receipt story...

as i tried to show in several posts above, it’s easy to show that a conspiracy to forge a receipt about an illegal product (contaminated meat) would have involved a coordinated chorus of lies of almost 10 people from several different organizations with opposing self-interest. Some co-conspirators would have to lie for contador against their livelihood and freedom.

i’m still waiting for someone to explain why would astana management agree to cover up a forged receipt 5 weeks after the cook claimed he handed it over to them for a rider who (some say) made them look like fools by negotiationg behind their backs whilst publicly professing something else ?

or why a basque butcher, himself under a suspicion of illegal trade, agree to forge a receipt and risk his shop closed ?

i think we covered that, the implications may not have been clear

shouldn’t at least one of so many loose ends and lies be easy to turn around ?

or were local basque police, guardia civil and food regulators also paid off to keep their mouths shut ?

i find it hard to believe that these questions wont be eventually asked..
astana management - self interest also in line with contador's, although recent events may have caused conflict their long term interests are damaged by appearing as though they leave current and even former riders out to dry. good luck attracting top talent after that!

authorities, regulatory agencies - this part of your argument borders on the ridiculous. why would they need to be complicit or paid off? it's not even logical. it's not a crime for contador to try and find an explanation for what happened. secondly, they're not going to launch an all out investigation because someone made a baseless accusation about contamination. until REAL evidence of contamination shows up they probably just don't care. they don't get paid to chase phony leads supported by zero evidence. clenbuterol showing up in very small quantities in a cyclist's urine many miles away isn't a strong lead in a case. ;)

butcher - the only real question mark but we covered it already. may not have understood the implications. ie he reprinted a reciept not knowing it had anything to do with a contamination case. there are all kinds of reasons to reprint a reciept, some of them actually legitimate. maybe someone threw a couple bucks at a low ranking employee of the butcher, there are plenty of simple explanations, who knows?

lastly, i'm not saying it's a cover up - i HONESTLY don't know! the only point is that it's very plausible. it wouldn't have required danny ocean's involvement. :rolleyes:

the veal steak may have even been purchased and prepared as they say. i DON'T know that either. it's also plausible. it's still a gigantic leap contador's asking us to take by just assuming it contained clenbuterol. you claim to be objective but your conclusions almost always support contador's story. this recent news actually conflicts with contador's version. the sizes of the steak aren't matching up properly but you're still emphasizing how believeable his story is. :rolleyes:
 
Feb 14, 2010
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I'm not actually following the thread these days, but the Competition Committee decision is imminent, and I just stumbled across an old Twitlonger post of mine.

You'll remember that Juliet Macur and the New York Times, with an anonymous source, were the main impetus behind the "Clenbuterol came from a blood transfusion" theory. A lot of you trust that source and the Times story. Here's what I wrote back in December:

I just gave the Juliet Macur article about Contador and plasticizers another read to refresh my memory. It doesn't state that it was a person from the Cologne lab leaking the info, just a person who apparently has no integrity:

"The International Cycling Union drug-testing chaperones took the urine sample from Contador on July 20, the eve of the Tour’s final rest day, said the person, who wanted to remain anonymous because of an agreement to keep the information confidential while Contador’s investigation is continuing. "
So yeah, a person gives their word to keep information secret, then rushes to the phone to share the information with the world. I hate people like that in all walks of life - politics or whatever. Did they plan to keep the promise at the time they made it, or did they lie to get the information and then betray the trust? The only thing they're able to keep confidential is their own name?

But the big sentence of the story is kind of buried.

"Now, however, the failed test for clenbuterol and for the plasticizers appear to have occurred on different days."
People claim that the existence of the plasticizers proves that the Clenbuterol was not from contamination, but he had used it on purpose previously, stored blood, and absolutely positively transfused on the rest day.

But the alleged high plasticizer level was on July 20, a day the urine sample showed no Clenbuterol whatsoever. If what so many people believe is true, the Clenbuterol level would have been more on the 20th than the 50 picograms found on the 21st. Yet there was zero. If anything, it makes a stronger case that the Clenbuterol, which is the only thing named in the doping case, was from contamination, and that if there was transfused blood, it showed no evidence of prior consumption of Clenbuterol.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/sports/cycling/05cycling.html?ref=juliet_macur

In the past week, Contador did radio interviews with Cadenaser and Cope (19:00), then an interview with Sport.ES, then a 25:00 interview on RTVE, plus Andy Ramos did a couple of interviews, and now Alberto was interviewed on TV for over an hour. All of it is available on the Internet, and so far, the coverage in English was one article in Velonews a few days ago. There's a whole lot of information out there people who don't actively look aren't ever going to see. Here's a sample - copied and pasted tweets:

Audio of @AlbertoContador interview at Cadenaser http://preview.tinyurl.com/4k9g4vk

Another audio of interview with @AlbertoContador http://www.ondacero.es/OndaCero/play/A_12549338

19:00 audio interview with @AlbertoContador & COPE http://preview.tinyurl.com/6dlae53

25 minute radio interview of @AlbertoContador discussing 33 pages submitted to RFEC today http://preview.tinyurl.com/4nbdegn

Andy Ramos talks about the @AlbertoContador case http://preview.tinyurl.com/4gve2od

Competition Committee to decide within a week, Contador did previously file a complaint about the steak http://preview.tinyurl.com/4raqssd

Lab methodology - "How to find 0.00000000005 grams of doping" http://ekstrabladet.dk/nyheder/videnskab_og_teknik/article1500925.ece

Video 1 of 5 of the lengthy @AlbertoContador interview on Veo 7 yesterday http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t5ih2wc_yA

If the Competition Committee declares him innocent, don't be too surprised if Contador shows up at the Giro. But do be surprised if you see the possibility raised in English.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Swordsman, let's be honest.
What are the chances that there's no causal relation between the failed plasticizer test and the failed CLEN test?

If it were food contamination, then we're left with a couple of questions:
1. why did AC not file charges against the butcher of Irun?
2. why didn't AC do a hairtest?
3. what are the odds of the positive falling on the 2nd restday?
4. How stupid can one (AC in this case) be?
5. etc.

Thus far, the HUMO article has given the by far most satisfactory account of how it all went down. It leaves me with no questions at all.
 
Apr 4, 2010
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Walkman said:
I don't get it, really I don't. What would finding the recipe mean? I mean, as someone said early on in this thread, it isn't likely to be labeled "Contaminated with Clenbuterol", so why would finding the recipie do AC any good?

Second, wasn't one of the excuses that AC used to claim his innocence that the Clenbuterol only came up once in the tests, wich would indicate that he had ate some bad meat since if he actually had transfused, the Clenbuterol would be found in the other tests?

And why wasn't we told about these other positive test until now, after the trial?
If someone could answer these questions I'd be very thankfull.:)
 
Oct 16, 2010
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roundabout said:
very interesting. thanks.
very damning for AC.
Not sure how the RFEC has been able to not hand AC the full two year ban on the basis of this evidence. my goodness.

It says, indeed, that if it were food-contamination, AC should have eaten meat with an amount of clen three times as high as the minimum of what is detectable by EU authorities.
But since the EU only found one possible case of CLEN among almost 300.000 samples taken in Spain in 2008, it remains a dark mistery how AC could have been so unlucky as to eat CLEN-contaminated meat.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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It furthermore explicitly states that AC's hypothesis is not compatible with the knowledge we have about the process of treating cattle with CLEN, since, normally, the last dosis of CLEN is subministered at least 8 to 10 days before the animal is butchered, and none of it would later be traceable in AC's urine.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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The 'scientist' Tomas Martin Jimenez claims that, for farmacocinetic reasons, a bloodtransfusion leading to the CLEN positive is very unlikely.
("no es compatible con los datos cientificos existentes sobre farmacocinética del clembuterol en humanos")
Really?
 
First thing I have to say is GODDAMN, this woman can't write.

Anyway, does anybody know if the appendixes are online too? She keeps mentioning Contador's lawyers proved the contamination through blood transfusion wasn't possible, I'd like to read that.
 

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