Steel is real(ly returning?)...

[kuoirad]

http://stories.worldsteel.org/innovation/steel-returns-to-professional-cycling/

 

[King Boonen]

They're only 4 years too late on the Genesis Volare story and it was pretty much superseded by the Zero when it was released in 2014. They still use the steel bikes for the UK crit series every now and then I think, but the Zero is used for mostly everything else.

Unless the UCI change the weight limit rule (which they should) you can certainly build up a stainless bike that'll be lighter than some of the bikes the pros ride (Sagan's VIAS disc was recently quoted at 8.46kg I think) and I reckon you could hit the 6.8kg mark for a climbing bike. The issue comes when aerodynamics are more of an issue than weight. I seem to remember that last year it was claimed Cav lost a sprint to Kristoff as he was wearing a jersey and Kristoff a skinsuit (tour of Qatar?). No pro is going to throw away what could be double digit watt savings. When it comes to aerodynamics carbon is always going to win due to the way the frames are made.

Lots of riders could ride steel fine, particularly domestiques and some might benefit from the improved ride quality (although this can be debatable it's easier to design a custom geo steel bike than a custom carbon frame for each rider so does still hold true) but brands need to sell the latest and greatest carbon fibre frames. If WT riders started riding steel I think people are more likely to drop a couple of grand on a bespoke frame rather than a set geo, mass produced steel frame, so bike manufacturers would basically be reducing their own market share.

I've argued for a long time that pretty much everyone who rides a bike should be on a steel frame and I still think that's true, even for amateur racers. I'm sure if I handed my steel bike to a faster club-mate and took their Venge or Propel they'd still beat me in a race. I'd love to see steel back in the WT too, but I don't think it's going to happen.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

They're only 4 years too late on the Genesis Volare story and it was pretty much superseded by the Zero when it was released in 2014. They still use the steel bikes for the UK crit series every now and then I think, but the Zero is used for mostly everything else.

Unless the UCI change the weight limit rule (which they should) you can certainly build up a stainless bike that'll be lighter than some of the bikes the pros ride (Sagan's VIAS disc was recently quoted at 8.46kg I think) and I reckon you could hit the 6.8kg mark for a climbing bike. The issue comes when aerodynamics are more of an issue than weight. I seem to remember that last year it was claimed Cav lost a sprint to Kristoff as he was wearing a jersey and Kristoff a skinsuit (tour of Qatar?). No pro is going to throw away what could be double digit watt savings. When it comes to aerodynamics carbon is always going to win due to the way the frames are made.

Lots of riders could ride steel fine, particularly domestiques and some might benefit from the improved ride quality (although this can be debatable it's easier to design a custom geo steel bike than a custom carbon frame for each rider so does still hold true) but brands need to sell the latest and greatest carbon fibre frames. If WT riders started riding steel I think people are more likely to drop a couple of grand on a bespoke frame rather than a set geo, mass produced steel frame, so bike manufacturers would basically be reducing their own market share.

I've argued for a long time that pretty much everyone who rides a bike should be on a steel frame and I still think that's true, even for amateur racers. I'm sure if I handed my steel bike to a faster club-mate and took their Venge or Propel they'd still beat me in a race. I'd love to see steel back in the WT too, but I don't think it's going to happen.

One of Eddy's team mates once said, "Eddy can win on my bike, I can't win on his'..

Cute story but win on Sunday, sell on Monday. Mass produced carbon is cheap to make, why they 'insist' on teams using the stuff with the BIG margins.

8.46kg for a WT, pro disc brake bike? But, but, but..ohh, never mind. :lol:

 

[King Boonen]

To be fair the rim brake version is 8.01kg so it's not a light bike in the first place. Too many people around my area seem to sell on everything within 6 months... Hardly used... Raced twice... Only dry miles (in Scotland that's basically never ridden!).

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

I sure do miss the days when half the pro peloton were on the same Colnago Master that's in my garage, mid 90's. Aside from Pozatto randomly showing up at a sign-in once a year on a steel bike, you'll never see one in a PT field again. King Boonen is right. Weight isn't really an issue if you can gain something in return like aerodynamics, frame or wheels.

Sure was funny reading all the crazy reactions to the recent press Sagan's bikes have been getting, as if the world was coming to an end before the first race of the year even got underway. Amazing how many people don't realize that sprinters have been riding aero bikes that are on average .5-1kg heavier than their non-aero counterparts, and for years now.

 

[GambadiLegno]

I've raced with a colombian guy, Jaime Vergara, who is now in Nice Pro Cycling. When he came to our team, they gave him a 9.5 kg bike as there wasn't another one available. He won an elite race here with 6 climbs, 144 kms and 2200 mts elevation gain with that bike. He arrived alone at the finish line. After seeing that, I don't pay attention to bike weight (well, I would avoid racing with a 9.5 kg bike to be honest :lol: ), between 7 and 8 kg it's ok.

 

[42x16ss]

That's it. I always laugh my backside off when some Fred on a brand new, pro spec bike asks me how I climb faster than them on my 7 year old, 105 equipped training bike. I tell them I'm pushing much less weight (usually a lot - I'm 69 kgs) and watch the confused look :lol:

Some people's weight can fluctuate by 2-3 kilos over a month or two, there's no need for obsessing.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Lugged steel, Di2, disc. ........... mic drop...

 

[42x16ss]

Nice, needs more Campagnolo though.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re:

Nice, needs more Campagnolo though.

On the commissaire's ride at nationals, one of the guys was on one of these:
http://cdn.wilier.com/sites/default/files/ramato.jpg

but with nicer wheels.

It sure was a pretty machine.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Lugged steel, Di2, disc. ........... mic drop...

Nice, needs more Campagnolo though.

On the commissaire's ride at nationals, one of the guys was on one of these:
http://cdn.wilier.com/sites/default/files/ramato.jpg

but with nicer wheels.

It sure was a pretty machine.

These are just beautiful. It's bikes like this that make me wonder why anyone would ever want to ride those elephantman-esque carbon monstrosities.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

I've raced with a colombian guy, Jaime Vergara, who is now in Nice Pro Cycling. When he came to our team, they gave him a 9.5 kg bike as there wasn't another one available. He won an elite race here with 6 climbs, 144 kms and 2200 mts elevation gain with that bike. He arrived alone at the finish line. After seeing that, I don't pay attention to bike weight (well, I would avoid racing with a 9.5 kg bike to be honest :lol: ), between 7 and 8 kg it's ok.

I was lucky enough to see Indurain's bike in the 90s, when he was in the republic training with Andy Hampsten(1995)..the wrench put it on a scale..23 pounds or 10.4 kilos in old money..then they rode up to Vail.. :surprised:

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Nice, needs more Campagnolo though.

On the commissaire's ride at nationals, one of the guys was on one of these:
http://cdn.wilier.com/sites/default/files/ramato.jpg

but with nicer wheels.

It sure was a pretty machine.

Yes.

Please.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Well, I think I found my next builder. I just can't stop looking at Chris Bishop's work, he's checking all the right boxes for me. Have a look at his flickr account. WARNING! You'll need hours to see it all, so grab a bite and a drink.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bishopbikes/albums/with/72157642156293954

 

[King Boonen]

Well, I think I found my next builder. I just can't stop looking at Chris Bishop's work, he's checking all the right boxes for me. Have a look at his flickr account. WARNING! You'll need hours to see it all, so grab a bite and a drink.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bishopbikes/albums/with/72157642156293954

Just to make it harder to decide:

Mates bike, absolutely beautiful.

 

[42x16ss]

Well, I think I found my next builder. I just can't stop looking at Chris Bishop's work, he's checking all the right boxes for me. Have a look at his flickr account. WARNING! You'll need hours to see it all, so grab a bite and a drink.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bishopbikes/albums/with/72157642156293954

That is seriously cool. I'd happily race something like that. Bishop's fillet brazed bikes are something to behold

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Holy hell, it's a Stelbel!

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

Nice, needs more Campagnolo though.

On the commissaire's ride at nationals, one of the guys was on one of these:
http://cdn.wilier.com/sites/default/files/ramato.jpg

but with nicer wheels.

It sure was a pretty machine.

Sublime. I'm sure it rides sweet as well.

I don't race, but I live in the hills and do all of my climbing on a pretty heavy Merckx MX Leader. It's so beautiful putting power through the bottom bracket. I'd take that feeling over extra watts/less time any day......but in a race, probably not.

 

[42x16ss]

Some photos from the master, Marco Bertoletti

My wife has one of their carbon frames and it is absolutely sublime, our next bikes will be from him in either steel or titanium.

 

[StryderHells]

I spend 95% of my time riding around on this


Not exactly modern steel but still damn fine

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

I spend 95% of my time riding around on this


Not exactly modern steel but still damn fine

Lucky b@stard!

 

[froze]

Re: Re:

I've argued for a long time that pretty much everyone who rides a bike should be on a steel frame and I still think that's true, even for amateur racers. I'm sure if I handed my steel bike to a faster club-mate and took their Venge or Propel they'd still beat me in a race. I'd love to see steel back in the WT too, but I don't think it's going to happen.

One of Eddy's team mates once said, "Eddy can win on my bike, I can't win on his'..

Cute story but win on Sunday, sell on Monday. Mass produced carbon is cheap to make, why they 'insist' on teams using the stuff with the BIG margins.

I agree with the steel thing, but until a lighter steel comes out, though Rodriguez made a bike called the Outlaw that weighed 13.5 pounds out of steel fully equipped of course but it's expensive at around $11,000 which is fine for wealthy people but not so much for everyone else. So to buy a steel bike today would weigh around 22-23 pounds, about the same as they did 35 years ago, and you can't even find a steel road bike at an LBS, though Bikes Direct has a decent one called the Motobecane Gran Premio Elite for just under $900 with 105 components. So today's weight weenies want a light bike with fancy buzzwords and a winning well known smiling pro racer endorsing it. And that's the issue with steel currently, to make it light like carbon you'll pay through the nose to get it, so why pay that much when you can get a CF bike for less? People don't want to hear the practical side of anything these days.

I own 6 steel bikes, but I stayed with metal when I got my last new bike 4 years ago with a titanium Lynskey Peloton (their lowest costing model at the time), but the ti frame does have a bit smoother ride than the steel bikes, except for my touring bikes, but those also have 32 mm wide tires vs 23 or 25 and thus has about 40 psi less air which gives it a bit nicer ride than the Lynskey.

A lot of people don't realize how cheap it is to make a CF frame and fork in Asia.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

I've argued for a long time that pretty much everyone who rides a bike should be on a steel frame and I still think that's true, even for amateur racers. I'm sure if I handed my steel bike to a faster club-mate and took their Venge or Propel they'd still beat me in a race. I'd love to see steel back in the WT too, but I don't think it's going to happen.

One of Eddy's team mates once said, "Eddy can win on my bike, I can't win on his'..

Cute story but win on Sunday, sell on Monday. Mass produced carbon is cheap to make, why they 'insist' on teams using the stuff with the BIG margins.

I agree with the steel thing, but until a lighter steel comes out, though Rodriguez made a bike called the Outlaw that weighed 13.5 pounds out of steel fully equipped of course but it's expensive at around $11,000 which is fine for wealthy people but not so much for everyone else. So to buy a steel bike today would weigh around 22-23 pounds, about the same as they did 35 years ago, and you can't even find a steel road bike at an LBS, though Bikes Direct has a decent one called the Motobecane Gran Premio Elite for just under $900 with 105 components. So today's weight weenies want a light bike with fancy buzzwords and a winning well known smiling pro racer endorsing it. And that's the issue with steel currently, to make it light like carbon you'll pay through the nose to get it, so why pay that much when you can get a CF bike for less? People don't want to hear the practical side of anything these days.

I own 6 steel bikes, but I stayed with metal when I got my last new bike 4 years ago with a titanium Lynskey Peloton (their lowest costing model at the time), but the ti frame does have a bit smoother ride than the steel bikes, except for my touring bikes, but those also have 32 mm wide tires vs 23 or 25 and thus has about 40 psi less air which gives it a bit nicer ride than the Lynskey.

A lot of people don't realize how cheap it is to make a CF frame and fork in Asia.

Not true..I had a Waterford R-33 with Record that weighed 16 pounds with aluminum cockpit and rims..add some carbon and easily below the UCI limit.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Re: Re:

...and you can't even find a steel road bike at an LBS...

Absolutely false.

..A lot of people don't realize how cheap it is to make a CF frame and fork in Asia..

Sure, if you were born yesterday or living under a rock for the last 20 years.

 

[avanti]

Several years ago my wife rode a LeMond steel frame bike (I forget the model). When I sold it for her I was surprised to find that it weighed 18-pounds complete with pedals, bottle cage, and triple crankset.