Stephen "Radical" Roche

[42x16ss]

Yes - it is!!

I always found it interesting that Armstrong was so reliant on his team radio and DS when he learned his trade from two of the best race readers of the time - Phil Anderson and Sean Yates, who both rarely used radios at all. He's only one example but easily the best that I can think of.

The rapid takeup of radios in the 90's changed the dynamics of racing as much as anything and is the one thing I agree with Roche on. Reduce them to just the DS and the road captain IMO. The rest of his rant is extreme though, he should be careful or he'll start sounding like de Vlaeminck.

 

[simo1733]

You could say that riders get back on their bikes too quickly considering the Chris Horner incident last year.
I am sure if it was a rule to remount asap then they are open to be sued by a rider who exacerbates an injury by doing so.
I agree about race radios though.I would also ban power meters fo racing.
Pace judgement is a very important skill.Now you just ride the numbers as directed from the team car.

 

[mr. tibbs]

It's interesting when you look at some of the past and present riders who are against (or indifferent to) the use of radios in the peleton.

These riders seem to always be the ones more capable of reading the race - eg: Roche, Phil Anderson, Bernard Hinault, Sean Kelly, Stuart O'Grady, Chris Horner, Kurt Arveson.
...

I'll add Di Luca to that list.

 

[Ferminal]

If I was paying lots of money to have my logo on a cyclists shirt I'd want it visible the whole time, not just at the finish.

Are there any cases of sponsors interfering with team management or individual riders?

Are Saxo going to tell Riis that Contador must have jersey zipped up at all times during the Vuelta, and that this is more important than giving the team independence (thus maximising their chances of winning).

 

[Martin318is]

You could say that riders get back on their bikes too quickly considering the Chris Horner incident last year.
I am sure if it was a rule to remount asap then they are open to be sued by a rider who exacerbates an injury by doing so.
I agree about race radios though.I would also ban power meters fo racing.
Pace judgement is a very important skill.Now you just ride the numbers as directed from the team car.

But that rule is not necessary.

The whole situation would be covered by 'riders must not receive any pacing assistance from team cars in any circumstances'

up to the rider how much time they spend faffing around at the scene of a crash or mechanical but the longer they wait, the harder they will have to work to get back. No scope for a lawsuit on that basis.

 

[fatsprintking]

I agree with Martin318is. Surely there is more scope for a lawsuit from being collected by a team car while trying to work your way back through about 50 vehicles as is the current situation.

All Roche is saying is that if you fall, you can either get back on yourself or you can't. My feeling is that it would reduce risk of riders trying to ride with serious injuries as they would make the decision that they are not going to get back on and so would call it a day, unlike presently where they know they are going to be paced by the cars.

It would also mean that teams needed to make a pretty big decision about dropping riders back to pull a leader/sprinter if there was a risk that all of them were going to get left behind. Combine this with no radio's and I think it would be fantastic. Riders would have to make the decsion.

I would love to see a full group of nine riders bustin their clackers for 30k trying to get back to the bunch.

 

[fatsprintking]

I always found it interesting that Armstrong was so reliant on his team radio and DS when he learned his trade from two of the best race readers of the time - Phil Anderson and Sean Yates, who both rarely used radios at all. He's only one example but easily the best that I can think of.

The rapid takeup of radios in the 90's changed the dynamics of racing as much as anything and is the one thing I agree with Roche on. Reduce them to just the DS and the road captain IMO. The rest of his rant is extreme though, he should be careful or he'll start sounding like de Vlaeminck.

Armstrong won a world championship with a pretty good instinctive attack. I think his use of radio's in his tour winning days was more about minimising the possibilities of things not going to plan and seeing the lack of organisation of other teams and riders as an area that could be exploited.

It worked pretty well and so everyone adopted it leading to boring and one dimensional racing a lot of the time. Bring back the chaos and luck for me!!

 

[Captain Kirk]

Looks like I'm in the minority, but I actually agree with everything he said.

I am not sure if you need to make the jersey issue a uci rule. I would think that with bigger more globally focussed sponsors coming into the sport, that you will see a clause re this written into agreements from sponsors who will need to get better at justifying/quantifying their investment.

His point about team cars seems to me to be about the concept that you are either in or out of the race - you cant take a time out - which is the current situation. He is just saying that you are either straight back into the race, or you are out of it which is just a luck of the sport thing.

No issue with no radio's from me and anyway you can minimise cars on the course is a good thing for me.

+ another for the minority

 

[hfer07]

wasn't Stephen Roche himself "allegedly" being pulled by his own team car up during his famous chase to Delgado in "La Plagne"?......

 

[delbified]

i don't quite get the team car pacing issue. if you have to drop back to the back of the car queue to collect 10 x bidons, would you be expected under Roche's rules to work like a dog to get back on to the peloton, without drafting? seems a bit harsh

 

[eljimberino]

I think the team cars could be ordered in a rotational roster, rather than the leader jersey wearers car being at the front of the line.

On the other hand, wouldn't be disappointed to see the team cars go. Was good to watch the recent Giro Trentino where the cars were not allowed up the mountain. Removes a lot of clutter.

Having a go at unzipped jerseys is just dumb.

How long a rider takes to get up after a crash is their choice. They still have to ride fast to rejoin the group. Surely the longer they lie on the side of the road, the longer they have to chase back, no?

I think the major question is: what is the role of the DS during a race?> Do we want to change anything about that role? Cars, radios etc etc all change after that. My intuition is that a lot of these jabs are a way of questioning that role.

For example, in Australian Rules Football, coaches can send messages via 'runners' who also hand out water. You couldn't imagine that in normal football.

A DS could call shots from a hotel in front of a TV if you continue to allow radios.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

radio's absolutely. Screw this control.

The jersey zipped thing is a bit much, but I understand from a sponsor perspective. Still on a hot summer day, up those difficult cols it is cruel to force such a rule imo. Don't agree with him here.

And the car pacing issue is a tough one. He might be taking it to an extreme, but the level of pacing and ease riders get back nowadays is a bit of a joke.
Unless the riders get injured, generally their is no issue getting back. And thus no real suspense or excitement. I understand fans, and I have seen it a lot here, getting upset and crying over the fact that riders have mechanical or crashes at the wrong time etc, which ruins races. I however love this aspect of cycling, the aspect of luck.

 

[Afrank]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vaughters-to-roche-cyclings-image-has-bigger-issues

Vaughters offers his view, I could not agree with him more. There are bigger issues cycling faces than unzipped jersey's and sock height.

 

[Kwibus]

Reche ****ed me off. Such marginal suggestions, thats all of no importance as speaking of how to enhance the cyclo image. Ridiculous. He must be the PR manager of the year.

This.

What an ridiculous load of crap. Talking about the image of cycling... I can think of just 1 image problem of cycling that should have main priority.

Besides that... open shirts? Really? gtfo.. what's the problem? Wether they can endure the heat or not. If they want to open their shirt I don't see the problem. It's just like Vaughters said. If the sponsor has problems with it a team can have their own policy of "no-open shirts".

Vaughters made a lot more sense.

Edit: I totally forgot about race radios. Since I'm no fan of them as well so he wasn't talking total crap and Vaughters didn't make sense with everything he said

 

[ElChingon]

He has some good points and some face palm points.

No rules, I like. Let them choose if they want to wear a helmet, use a light bike, etc. Not allowing unzipping the jersey, face palm. (you just said no rules... ugh.)

The whole robot thing I agree with, they should race on their own, the DS should be there to provide food, aid (medical, not PED's), maybe some advice not a monolog through the ear piece though, shouting from the team car should be enough for some, one on one meeting time on the road. Which would allow any other team to sneakily hear if close by, he he.... At the same time any rider should be able to attack when they feel like it without any hard feelings of the ones who lose out, they can take revenge the next stage/race and attack when the previous attacker isn't ready NO MATTER THE SITUATION (for both). Even rider to rider radios but not rider to DS to Owner or "tech" adviser back in Italy .

The radios can aid safety but we all know they also aid in less than exciting racing, which leads to lost fans, sponsors and revenues.

Maybe hire Jackie Durand to be a race commissionaire or race something or other to influence the other riders to go on crazy attacks, not just face time and call it a day after who knows how many K's. Jackie may not have won as many races as the Cipo's or the GT greats but he sure made racing fun. Would he make it, would he not, would he try yet again!?!? Yea, not the answer but something at the very least to animate the race, or was I the only one following the Jackie Meter?

 

[jens_attacks]

lol our stephen roche going mental...and he is what,50?
at least he should have said no more helmets on the MTF's,then i'd agree.

vaughters is knowing well,no more doping scandals made public is the way to go just like i always said.that's the first if you want to have a professional sport with lot of money coming from sponsors.it seems like uci finally got it after the 2006-2008 circus

these two guys were shocked by roche:

 

[oboy77]

Stephen Roche seems to have forgotten the times when he was a racer. It is not that easy thing to get back to peloton even behind a car. You are fighting for your life doing 70km/h and then jumping from behind one car to another only to regain the posititon you were in (which was taken from you). Nobody just stops by the road to have a break with cheating on his mind.

 

[Kwibus]

Vaughters is right. Cycling has far more important issues to deal with and like Vaughters said doping is the foremost. But you wont hear Roche saying anything about that though. He will say things about unzipped jerseys but he would`nt say anything about criticising the doping cases in the sport.

I wonder how much the UCI pays these guys to distract the public from the doping issues.

McQuaid: Here Stephen....100.000 euros if you come and sit in our council and don't talk about doping and try to keep to focus away from it as much as possible.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Shirts should be a sponsor concer, and not legislated about.

I do recall over the last coupel of years seeing several riders zip up their shirts to cross the line, probably to get the right exposure for the sponsors.

 

[B_Ugli]

Whilst I liked Roche as a rider he increasingly comes out with total garbage and when I hear him commentating I generally mute the t.v. He would show much greater intelligence by advocating a warning system with time/points sanctions of some kind for certain midemenours and persistent offenders rather than just all this ban, ban ban ban.

If you banned long socks probably half the average peleton would be sanctioned these days.

In my opinion there are far worse crimes like having your sunglass arms inside your crash hat straps

 

[ruamruam]

wasn't Stephen Roche himself "allegedly" being pulled by his own team car up during his famous chase to Delgado in "La Plagne"?......

I have hear this allegation a number of times.

Is there any evidence to support it? Not doubting it just curious.

 

[MartinGT]

Jaysus

Roche needs to shake his head. They banned taking jerseys off in football because it was wasting time and people were putting slogans on base layers.

Not for asthetic reasons.

What a numpty

 

[MartinGT]

Shirts should be a sponsor concer, and not legislated about.

I do recall over the last coupel of years seeing several riders zip up their shirts to cross the line, probably to get the right exposure for the sponsors.

Most riders, if not all do that now, which is fair enough.

 

[Bala Verde]

So now we hear from Vaughters, in response to Roche's (trivial) ideas. We have Pat McQaid and we heard of Michael Ashenden and Ann Gripper.

Are there also non-anglosaxons who float 'innovative' ideas, or who have opinions on how to move forward in cycling. Surely there must have been, let's say, people from Belgium, France, Italy or Spain who commented on such issues, right?

Or are the aforementioned people the brain trust of international cycling?

 

[richwagmn]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/stephen-roche-were-trying-to-upgrade-the-image-of-cycling

I did not know that Stephen was so radical:

No help from team cars after crash. " it’s a form of cheating and it confuses the public."
No unzip the jerseys. " "If you don’t stop it now, they’ll have no jerseys on shortly."
No radios. "They’ve been looked upon as zombies, no brains, for years, and all the credit for tactics has been given to the team managers in the car,"

Comments....

Show's how completely useless the UCI has become.