Steve Bauer: "cycling is cleanest sport in the world"

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Jun 19, 2009
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blackcat said:
cos they aint got Marketing and Communications 101 down yet, and dont need to engage in Bernays hogwash. It is Kantian no? They are doing this, for expedience, that is their motive. Not to clean up a sport. Its the greenwash of the biopassport.

Places vigilance on the doorstep of the teams, instead of the doorstop of Politicians in Aigle@UCI hq.

Like Vaughters.

When JV was given the opportunity to pass the ethics test, he failed. Ethics are only ethics, when they are tested. Hifalutin rhetoric, which is what his Bauer article and JV talking points, are, is just marketing and propaganda. Sorry.
gotta agree although the translation is a challenge, Gatonegro.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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blackcat said:
cos they aint got Marketing and Communications 101 down yet, and dont need to engage in Bernays hogwash. It is Kantian no? They are doing this, for expedience, that is their motive. Not to clean up a sport. Its the greenwash of the biopassport.

Places vigilance on the doorstep of the teams, instead of the doorstop of Politicians in Aigle@UCI hq.

Like Vaughters.

When JV was given the opportunity to pass the ethics test, he failed. Ethics are only ethics, when they are tested. Hifalutin rhetoric, which is what his Bauer article and JV talking points, are, is just marketing and propaganda. Sorry.
Nicely stated. That's the nuts...
 
May 6, 2009
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What Bauer has just said feels like Groundhog Day everytime somebody tests positive. Now if I had a dollar...
 
T_S_A_R said:
...

although there seems to be plenty of doping going on it doesn't seem to be at ONCE, festina, us postal or marco pantani/bjarne riis levels.

i thought most people agreed doping had been reduced (though obviously not eradicated) in the past decade.
You mean in the good old days before doping farms like Operacion Puerto?

Dave.
 
D-Queued said:
You mean in the good old days before doping farms like Operacion Puerto?

Dave.
D-Queued said:
For heaven's sake, even the Lanterne Rouge is/was a doper.

Oops, I guess I should have saved that observation for the 'Steve Bauer says there is no doping in cycling thread'

Good grief.:confused:

Dave.
Well stated, Dave. Well stated.

Dave.
 
May 31, 2011
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Zweistein said:
Bernard Hopkins doesn't fight a high speed fight. He losing to people that overwhelm to the point where is craftiness is useless. Pascal is a good but flawed fighter and was not an surprise that Bernard beat him. Pascal can be tricked and doesn't have the endurance to overwhelm Bernard for more than a few rounds.

There are more weight classes now days than in the past. Winning in 8 of them is not surprising for that reason. Also, Pac started his pro-career very young, long before he had filled out. Moving from 105 to 145 isn't surprising.

It is nice you want to include boxing into this discussion but don't make generalizations with little to back it up.
bhop was doing press ups between the rounds against pascal!

manny maybe isn't the best example but i could as easily have said shane mosley taking balco peds
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Merckx index said:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/more-sports/tour-de-france-has-toughest-anti-doping-rules-in-sports/article2094076/

I agree with him that cycling has more processes in place than any other sport that should, in theory, catch dopers. What he doesn't point out, of course, is that cyclists are much more knowledgeable about certain substances and procedures than other athletes are, and that in cycling, far more than in other sports, doping is a team endeavor.
Bauer is correct. The more interesting question is that more of a reflection of world sport being dirty or cycling being clean?
 
Mar 4, 2010
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T_S_A_R said:
football isn't about distance running though, is it genius?
Outrunning the competition is, unless you have a very strange definition of "outrunning". You would expect small players to have better endurance than tall, muscle bound players.
 
T_S_A_R said:
football isn't about distance running though, is it genius?


a midfielder in a champions league game only covers around 10km in 110 mins.
He doesnt cover those 10km at a constant speed though does he.

Dont know where you got the 110 mins figure from, they usually cover about 10k in 90, but they do so by sprinting then resting. Sprinting then resting. Haile Gebresellesi isnt going to do his 10k in 30 mins either if you tell him he has to do bursts of 100, then stand around, then repeat.
 
May 31, 2011
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Tyler'sTwin said:
Outrunning the competition is, unless you have a very strange definition of "outrunning". You would expect small players to have better endurance than tall, muscle bound players.
as the poster below says it's like a succesion of sprints and circuit exercises.

comparing footballers to distance runners is like saying cav is a climber because he will cycle over a mountain tomorrow.

The Hitch said:
Dont know where you got the 110 mins figure from, they usually cover about 10k in 90, but they do so by sprinting then resting. Sprinting then resting. Haile Gebresellesi isnt going to do his 10k in 30 mins either if you tell him he has to do bursts of 100, then stand around, then repeat.
the 110 mins comes from 90 + 5 added mins + 15 for half time
 
Mar 4, 2010
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T_S_A_R said:
as the poster below says it's like a succesion of sprints and circuit exercises.

comparing footballers to distance runners is like saying cav is a climber because he will cycle over a mountain tomorrow.



the 110 mins comes from 90 + 5 added mins + 15 for half time
So what??? Ask a world class distance runner and a world class sprinter to do "a succesion of sprints and circuit exercises" and the distance guy will prove to have far better fatigue resistance and outrun the sprinter. Football is not the same as distance running, but there's nothing unexpected about a player with superior running economy being able to outrun a player with inferior running economy.
 
May 18, 2009
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the delgados said:
Steve Bauer had plenty of opportunity to complain about drug use when he was competing. I don't know why anyone would think he would do it now.
Why would he complain about drug use in the 80's? Clean riders during those times had no reason to berate riders that were cheating against them. The dopers were just fooling themselves by using ineffective PED's such as steroids before the game changing EPO. It is common knowledge that a clean rider had no problem beating those placebo injecting rubes in the 80's. It is hilarious they still haven't learned their lesson because they are still using these ineffective drugs today.

I just checked Wikipedia and see he retired in 1995, well into the EPO era. It makes no sense why he doesn't have a column on CN berating riders that emerged in that generation and robbed him of his glory. Maybe he thinks he has some type of blood disease which caused him to start getting his azz kicked. He should read the clinic more.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Tyler'sTwin said:
So what??? Ask a world class distance runner and a world class sprinter to do "a succesion of sprints and circuit exercises" and the distance guy will prove to have far better fatigue resistance and outrun the sprinter. Football is not the same as distance running, but there's nothing unexpected about a player with superior running economy being able to outrun a player with inferior running economy.
Any soccer player who thinks they run a bunch in a game are full of S@!!!. They run about on average 5k to 10k at the most. They are a bunch of panzzies. It is an entire different type of running. But hey that is what you said TylerTwin.

You know there is no reason for Bauer to complain because back in his day there was no real game changer PED. Only the stuff everyone could get errrrrr ummm yeah ....just like now ....ooops I mean errrrrrrrr NO WAY the 80's guys were doing any blood transfusions during the Olympiccccc errrr OOOOOOPSSS this cycling is just so clean ... I mean except for Cofidis riders who are ummmm errrrrr. OOOPS except for the MERICANS..... or Ruskies..... errrr OK well ummmm .. I love this cycling clean sport. :eek:
 
ChrisE said:
Why would he complain about drug use in the 80's? Clean riders during those times had no reason to berate riders that were cheating against them. The dopers were just fooling themselves by using ineffective PED's such as steroids before the game changing EPO. It is common knowledge that a clean rider had no problem beating those placebo injecting rubes in the 80's. It is hilarious they still haven't learned their lesson because they are still using these ineffective drugs today.

I just checked Wikipedia and see he retired in 1995, well into the EPO era. It makes no sense why he doesn't have a column on CN berating riders that emerged in that generation and robbed him of his glory. Maybe he thinks he has some type of blood disease which caused him to start getting his azz kicked. He should read the clinic more.
It makes no sense why he has 'spoken out for clean sport', yet has
- turned the other cheek
- taken the high road
- held his chin up
- blah, blah, blah

when he lost the '84 Olympics to a member of a team with a widely recognized, highly organized doping practice (and, please, no defense of Grewal needed here).

That team was arguably ground zero for doping by US members of the pro peloton. The silence is deafening.

Dave.
 
May 18, 2009
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D-Queued said:
It makes no sense why he has 'spoken out for clean sport', yet has
- turned the other cheek
- taken the high road
- held his chin up
- blah, blah, blah

when he lost the '84 Olympics to a member of a team with a widely recognized, highly organized doping practice (and, please, no defense of Grewal needed here).

That team was arguably ground zero for doping by US members of the pro peloton. The silence is deafening.

Dave.
Dave, get the hook out of your mouth.
 
Feb 1, 2011
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Bauer's comments are in a Canadian newspaper and intended for a Canadian audience. By and large Canadians don't know much about cycling. They hear about it for 3 weeks every July and whenever a drug scandal breaks, so their perception of it is that it is dirty. As the promoter of a Canadian cycling team trying to find Canadian sponsors that's got to be frustrating.

The sports that Canadian's do follow NFL, CFL (grid iron football) and NHL (ice hockey) have very little PED scrutiny and fans are happy to stay ignorant. Hockey, as the national sport, especially gets a free pass. When Richard Pound speculated that a third of NHL players might dope, Canadians questioned his patriotism. You hear national commentators saying that hockey players don't dope, because there aren't the same benefits to be gained (because apparently strength, speed and cardio vascular endurance don't matter in hockey?). Friends who have played at the junior level tell me it was once not uncommon to have a bowl of sudafed out in the dressing room between periods. This is also a sport where players are told to bulk up and then return from the off season with 10 pounds of additional lean muscle. It's a sport where the league administers the drug tests once or twice a year and in which the penalty is a 20 game (a quarter of a season) suspension

So when Steve is doing the rounds looking for sponsors, he has to say something to counter the first reaction which is "aren't cyclists all dopers".

Steve's is not a sophisticated argument. It's more a diversionary tactic, but it suits the audience.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Orvieto said:
Bauer's comments are in a Canadian newspaper and intended for a Canadian audience. By and large Canadians don't know much about cycling. They hear about it for 3 weeks every July and whenever a drug scandal breaks, so their perception of it is that it is dirty. As the promoter of a Canadian cycling team trying to find Canadian sponsors that's got to be frustrating.

The sports that Canadian's do follow NFL, CFL (grid iron football) and NHL (ice hockey) have very little PED scrutiny and fans are happy to stay ignorant. Hockey, as the national sport, especially gets a free pass. When Richard Pound speculated that a third of NHL players might dope, Canadians questioned his patriotism. You hear national commentators saying that hockey players don't dope, because there aren't the same benefits to be gained (because apparently strength, speed and cardio vascular endurance don't matter in hockey?). Friends who have played at the junior level tell me it was once not uncommon to have a bowl of sudafed out in the dressing room between periods. This is also a sport where players are told to bulk up and then return from the off season with 10 pounds of additional lean muscle. It's a sport where the league administers the drug tests once or twice a year and in which the penalty is a 20 game (a quarter of a season) suspension

So when Steve is doing the rounds looking for sponsors, he has to say something to counter the first reaction which is "aren't cyclists all dopers".

Steve's is not a sophisticated argument. It's more a diversionary tactic, but it suits the audience.
Exactly. By the way, Lacrosse is the national sport of Canada (officially speaking)...
 
D-Queued said:
When he lost the '84 Olympics to a member of a team with a widely recognized, highly organized doping practice (and, please, no defense of Grewal needed here).
Dave, I agree with your frustrations on Bauer's silence, but Chris is right. It's been well documented, numerous times, that while blood doping was offered to many athletes, the US men's road team did not blood dope at the 1984 Olympics.

This excellent article by Sports Illustrated points out, in pretty good detail, what happened. While there could be omissions, I do not know anyone that believes there are, and several riders on the men's road team were not even aware of the doping, as Grewal noted in his confessions, which has not been disputed by anyone of any validity. I used to be somewhat acquainted with someone whose name is in that article. Very honest, and contrite words, and retrospective concern, came from that person, very similar to the tone of the article, but zero indication that the men's road team blood doped.
 
Thanks Alpe & Chris.

(I was also thinking of extracts of cortisone, and other doping related activity from the nat'l team in the same time frame...)

Orvieto said:
...By and large Canadians don't know much about cycling. They hear about it for 3 weeks every July and whenever a drug scandal breaks, so their perception of it is that it is dirty. As the promoter of a Canadian cycling team trying to find Canadian sponsors that's got to be frustrating.

...
Canadians don't dope, and there is no doping in Canadian cycling.

k?

I mean, if there was doping in Canadian sport and especially in Canadian cycling, I am sure Steve would know about it, right?

JMBeaushrimp said:
Exactly. By the way, Lacrosse is the national sport of Canada (officially speaking)...
FYI - Hockey has also been added as an official national sport, joining lacrosse.

Dave.
 
May 18, 2009
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WTH is going on? I said nothing about blood doping, or anything about the 84 US Olympic team. :confused:

I was responding to "the delgados" about why Bauer didn't complain about doping when he was racing in the 80's. Sarcastically, I might add, but that sarcasm seems to be lost as well.....I must try harder but it is a tightrope avoiding the ban hammer. :cool:
 
Jul 6, 2010
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D-Queued said:
FYI - Hockey has also been added as an official national sport, joining lacrosse.

Dave.
Hadn't heard that. My wife's a Canuck and from a long line of hockey players and fans. I thought they would've beat that one into me - unfortunately, literally...
 

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