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Keep this on-topic do not let this devolve in a thread about whether Lemond doped. Or any other off-topic discussion
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Wasn't there some sort of debacle just before the Nagano winter olympics? The NHL players' assoc refused to adhere to IOC testing regimen? Something like that...
No wonder Bauer's forced to spout the same old "cycling is SO clean" rhetoric when the press ignores the other sports, and sees only cycling as the black sheep of the sporting world.
No wonder Bauer's forced to spout the same old "cycling is SO clean" rhetoric when the press ignores the other sports, and sees only cycling as the black sheep of the sporting world.
It could be that Bauer has a financial interest in whatever he's promoting, and it is in his interest to put a positive spin on things. He learned the liability of not spinning from Alexi Grewal 
I can assure you Canadians are not immune to doping.
FWIW, at his peak, Steve Bauer was vocal about clean and fair sport on behalf of Sport Canada. If I remember correctly, his quote in the ad went something like, 'I know Greg Lemond and Andy Hampsten, and I can say that you can win without cheating', or something to that effect. I'm sure I have the CCA Racing handbook from 1988, or sometime around there. if i find it, i'll scan the ad.
I'm sure this won't mean much to most people here but I can say that drugs and Steve Bauer were not mentioned together that I can remember.
FWIW, at his peak, Steve Bauer was vocal about clean and fair sport on behalf of Sport Canada. If I remember correctly, his quote in the ad went something like, 'I know Greg Lemond and Andy Hampsten, and I can say that you can win without cheating', or something to that effect. I'm sure I have the CCA Racing handbook from 1988, or sometime around there. if i find it, i'll scan the ad.
I'm sure this won't mean much to most people here but I can say that drugs and Steve Bauer were not mentioned together that I can remember.
"Whats interesting and the reason it's clinic-worthy is that he states cycling has the best anti-doping process in the world."
I'm sure that Armstrong paid him to say that.
I'm sure that Armstrong paid him to say that.
BotanyBay said:It could be that Bauer has a financial interest in whatever he's promoting, and it is in his interest to put a positive spin on things. He learned the liability of not spinning from Alexi Grewal
He's trying to draw young talent into cycling from other sports, and in particular, hockey. I think he's acknowledging the fact that a number of parents will hear CYCLING and think DRUGS. I suspect he's trying to move past that immediate barrier by saying: Yes, there have been lots of big doping cases in cycling, but that could and should be seen as evidence that the sport trying to fix the problem. The NHL isn't doing that.
As for financial interests.... well, I can't imagine all the bad press cycling has achieved is good for his touring business.
hiccuphell said:
HH, thx for the thread. I think it is important to remember who the target audience was, and the underlying message for that 'Canadian' audience. I think at this stage we should allow Mr. Bauer a great deal of latitude with respect to being a DS, or a coach and his comments on Doping.
I have never heard of reports of Steve doping, actually the opposite. I DO know of a few riders, undoubtedly more, that have beaten Steve who were doped. That is irrefutable. Steve IS one of those North American cyclists that put racing onto your TV's in the 80's and 90's long before any of the latest dopers made millions off of lying. Also, when LA asked Steve to be a DS he said "NO". Ask yourself why. Was it timing of the request or a deeper reason?
Presumably he was trying to attract investors, young cyclists and gain momentum in raising Canadian's interest in cycling. Steve is vehemently against dopers and still is. As stated early in this thread he may have been trying to articulate that cycling is doing a better job of at least trying to catch dopers. They may not be catching all the dopers (LA prime example) but its a H@ll of a lot better than the NFL, NBA, and the NHL. Lets see how his team unfolds, and the antidoping initiatives in the next 2-3 yrs as he attempts to bring a team towards the top of the pro circuit.
Mr. Bauer has a lot more credibility than Riis, Bruyneel, Sais, Lefevere...lets open a few threads on them looking for ways to kick them the f(*k out of the main-stream pro ranks!
NW
Neworld said:
You are suggesting that the 'Canadian' audience regards cycling as dirty?
If the comparison (as made above) is with respect to NA entertainment sport, likely most Canadians are not as exposed to the dog-fighting, gun-toting, coke-sniffing, and 'roid raging associated with NBA, NFL and MLBA given the reduced exposure. Heck the CFL didn't even need a drug policy. Sure Chris Benoit was a bit of a tragedy, but the Hart family are good old Canadian kids. After all, Canadian kids are so tough they don't need drugs, helmets or face guards. Right Grapes?
The only place Canadians have problems with doping is in Olympic sports like track and field. Oh, and cycling I suppose.
Dave.
D-Queued said:
DQ's,
I think you and I agree. I DO think Canadians feel cyclists dope. I think most Canadians think that the last 11 yrs of pro cycling were full of dopers.
Most Canadians probably also think that the average Neanderthal NFLer is doped to the gills(Test, GH at least). Personally, I think the NHL has a comical platform for antidoping enforcement, and, I know that there is a significant steroid problem in the junior hockey leagues.
I hope that Mr. Bauer takes the righteous path with respect to his new team, its future and doping.
NW
Steve's always been clean that I've heard, but he also maintains relations with others in the business, like Lance. I imagine he'd have to be 'diplomatic' on his feelings about doping to do that. He's commented before on Pound's comments, and it sounded kind of weak, like Pound should go after Nor am pro sports before cycling.
I think a sign of the tipping point will be when he feels he can criticize the UCI's gaffs on anti-doping or Lance without losing his business. But that will mean he hasn't been part of getting to the tipping point. Still, running a clean team is a powerful statement by itself.
I think a sign of the tipping point will be when he feels he can criticize the UCI's gaffs on anti-doping or Lance without losing his business. But that will mean he hasn't been part of getting to the tipping point. Still, running a clean team is a powerful statement by itself.
mtb Dad said:
As much as I would applaud it, it would be foolish to suggest that Steve, alone, try and take on the UCI. Steve, however, is a very big name in the cycling world even if he is Canadian. He is a very credible voice.
But, Cdns can do a lot more pro-actively about doping in cycling than we have. In fact, rather than Steve worrying about this, what about the CCA? What are they doing to try and affect change within the UCI? Canada, after all, is the home of WADA HQ.
Some of those associated with the CCA, as well as some of the Cdn cycling establishment, I regard as personal friends.
With my few statements already posted on this thread, I have raised the attention and concern of at least one person -- who has already contacted me for clarification.
However, there appears to be little if no action being taken. Fellow Canadians like Lister Farrar have been persuasively vocal with little resonance or traction at the CCA.
When Cdn mtb'er Chris 'Shep' Sheppard tested positive for EPO in 2005 I contacted the CCA brass & Cdn team coach and encouraged him/CCA to take a public, pro-active stance on doping with zero tolerance holding team accountable for actions of its riders. The writing, I observed, was on the wall. Doping in cycling was about to give the sport a severe road rash.
To Sheppard's credit, he did publicly admit that he had doped (even if it was 'only the first time, and just tried it the day before the testers showed up'). Then again he announced the end of his career, but is back at it. Hopefully he is clean (Sorry Chris, but welcome to cycling).
The CCA et al passed on that opportunity to see the writing on the wall and get out ahead of the doping mushroom cloud that was all but set to go off. Meanwhile, other Cdn cycling notables made public statements about 'Shep' somehow being a lightning rod for doping vitriole.
Hardly. Oh, and by the way, nice guy or not, podium finisher or not, he doped.
About the same time as Shep's positive, GJ had her EPO positive. 2005 was a banner year for doping in Cda.
Later in 2005 (Aug 23) and then in 2006, we had the triple atomic explosions of the L'Equipe article (Aug 2005), then the OP scandal (May 2006) followed by Landis' positive (July 2006). A banner year for doping in Canada was followed by a banner year for the sport at the highest international levels.
Thus, on the one hand, I applaud Steve's commitment to anti-doping.
It is long overdue.
On the other hand, it is necessary to be realistic about the sport. There are dopers in our midst. Moreover, is it too much to ask for a positive message rather than the parroting of a McQuaidism?
Is it too much to ask for a bit more? Can we take the extra step?
I hope we can.
Dave.
As far as I'm concerned, he can dope his riders until their eyes pop out, with every chemical ever invented,, as long as he doesn't make them ride this bike:
I mean, doping's bad and all, but as a fan of the sport, you've gotta draw the line somewhere.
I mean, doping's bad and all, but as a fan of the sport, you've gotta draw the line somewhere.
Great post Dave.
But, lets go slowly in this present day. Much is happening right now, lets see if the 'head' of the snake can be cut off in the next year, and then build some antidoping momentum thereafter. Doping didn't start in a month, it will take a long time to control. I think you, Bauer and others are apart of the solution, even if it takes longer than both you and I would like.
Hang in there buddy.
NW
But, lets go slowly in this present day. Much is happening right now, lets see if the 'head' of the snake can be cut off in the next year, and then build some antidoping momentum thereafter. Doping didn't start in a month, it will take a long time to control. I think you, Bauer and others are apart of the solution, even if it takes longer than both you and I would like.
Hang in there buddy.
NW
Neworld said:
Thanks.
I have been in touch (or someone has been in touch with me) from the Team.
For this, I would like to say thanks for the high degree of interest!
If anyone wants to have a direct line to team management to discuss this topic, or anything else I suppose, please feel free to inbox me and I will pass along coordinates.
Dave.
I have a few thoughts to add.
First, I don't know if he's 'leading' with that comment about dope testing in cycling. He didn't write the article, and I'm sure his interview was longer than that one sound bite, so the contents of the article, as some have pointed out, probably reflect the journalistic perception of what sports fans want to know in Canada more than anything else. I would reserve judgement on Bauer himself for that comment, as it was probably from a larger conversation.
Second, with regards to the comment itself, it doesn't seem to me to reek of upholding omerta. Of course, this is viewed through the lens that I know Bauer is one of the few people talked about on these forums that nobody really seems to have any dirt on, so he's one of the few people I think was clean. But anyway, if he's to be taken at face value then he falls in the category of 'those who want to change cycling but also want jobs within it'. In that sense, there's nothing inaccurate about his statements - cycling DOES have a pretty elaborate dope-testing regime, and they ARE catching a lot of people. What's left unsaid - that it's still a huge problem and the UCI are corrupt losers - makes sense when you consider he's talking to the press. And he follows up with the comment about how you would be stupid to dope, which is cynical and hypocritical if he is knowingly running a doping team, but if he's not it's just his attitude he's expressing. So it seems like 'cycling is doing alot, and people who dope are stupid' is sort of a 'soft' alternative between outright omerta and truthful criticism. It seems like maybe Bauer is pragmatic and realizes that it would be difficult to up and say 'the whole system is terrible' and still work within it, to me.
Of course, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.
First, I don't know if he's 'leading' with that comment about dope testing in cycling. He didn't write the article, and I'm sure his interview was longer than that one sound bite, so the contents of the article, as some have pointed out, probably reflect the journalistic perception of what sports fans want to know in Canada more than anything else. I would reserve judgement on Bauer himself for that comment, as it was probably from a larger conversation.
Second, with regards to the comment itself, it doesn't seem to me to reek of upholding omerta. Of course, this is viewed through the lens that I know Bauer is one of the few people talked about on these forums that nobody really seems to have any dirt on, so he's one of the few people I think was clean. But anyway, if he's to be taken at face value then he falls in the category of 'those who want to change cycling but also want jobs within it'. In that sense, there's nothing inaccurate about his statements - cycling DOES have a pretty elaborate dope-testing regime, and they ARE catching a lot of people. What's left unsaid - that it's still a huge problem and the UCI are corrupt losers - makes sense when you consider he's talking to the press. And he follows up with the comment about how you would be stupid to dope, which is cynical and hypocritical if he is knowingly running a doping team, but if he's not it's just his attitude he's expressing. So it seems like 'cycling is doing alot, and people who dope are stupid' is sort of a 'soft' alternative between outright omerta and truthful criticism. It seems like maybe Bauer is pragmatic and realizes that it would be difficult to up and say 'the whole system is terrible' and still work within it, to me.
Of course, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Dear Mr. Bauer,
I've sobered up from my weekend debauchery and reread the OP. Good news: my spelling was acceptable, I used big words and I wasn't moded. Bad news: I came across as sarcastic and accusatory. My apologies. I never for a second thought you threw in with tugboat, piti or the jaunpelotas of the peloton. And I sincerely want to wish you all the best of luck with your ST team gig and hope you eventually get those big race invites as I think that would rock. Oh and please, for the love of fruit loops, please dont chose an argile kit!
But, I do want to know if you, at any time, debated which storyline to project. Because the one you did chose was, like DQ said, the same parroting story that chubby pat and all the other DSs spew. I want to believe you struggled with it and picture it like that movie scene where you could have chosen the red pill and said something like: "we know how ineffective the testing is, we know the tricks and methods used to thwart the testers, we only hire mechanics who wear heel-less shoes and we know how hard it is to compete clean in a very tainted field. But were going to try and do it clean."
But then perhaps, in your defense, old fatty pat, or the ASO wouldn't give u that ticket.
HH
I've sobered up from my weekend debauchery and reread the OP. Good news: my spelling was acceptable, I used big words and I wasn't moded. Bad news: I came across as sarcastic and accusatory. My apologies. I never for a second thought you threw in with tugboat, piti or the jaunpelotas of the peloton. And I sincerely want to wish you all the best of luck with your ST team gig and hope you eventually get those big race invites as I think that would rock. Oh and please, for the love of fruit loops, please dont chose an argile kit!
But, I do want to know if you, at any time, debated which storyline to project. Because the one you did chose was, like DQ said, the same parroting story that chubby pat and all the other DSs spew. I want to believe you struggled with it and picture it like that movie scene where you could have chosen the red pill and said something like: "we know how ineffective the testing is, we know the tricks and methods used to thwart the testers, we only hire mechanics who wear heel-less shoes and we know how hard it is to compete clean in a very tainted field. But were going to try and do it clean."
But then perhaps, in your defense, old fatty pat, or the ASO wouldn't give u that ticket.
HH
Hear, Hear!
Had a friend that rode for/with Steve Bauer on Sidi-Rossin in the early 80's at the Red Zinger/Coors Classic - he had nothing but good things to say about him.
Also on the team was Alexi, who has always danced to his own drummer - but despite and because of his eccentricity, I still find him a compelling cycling star.
Remember that it was in Canada that David Millar was caught:
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/jul04/jul20news3
Yes subjective, but I applaud Steve for some positive spin and optimism.
The sport needs it right now.
Had a friend that rode for/with Steve Bauer on Sidi-Rossin in the early 80's at the Red Zinger/Coors Classic - he had nothing but good things to say about him.
Also on the team was Alexi, who has always danced to his own drummer - but despite and because of his eccentricity, I still find him a compelling cycling star.
Remember that it was in Canada that David Millar was caught:
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/jul04/jul20news3
Yes subjective, but I applaud Steve for some positive spin and optimism.
The sport needs it right now.
I'd think that many Canadians would consider cycling to be a doping sport, along with track and field. They'd also deny that hockey has a doping problem, which is a laughable assertion. Sure, no one tests positive, but they don't test during the off season or the playoffs, and the regular season testing is laughable at best.
Does this pass the sniff test for anyone here?
http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/james_duthie/?id=335457
Does this pass the sniff test for anyone here?
http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/james_duthie/?id=335457
Silver said:
Most Canadians don't give any consideration to the sport of cycling. Dope or not, it barely registers on the radar.
Which is why I don't think Bauer is going to be too successful recruiting hockey players and turning them into Tour contenders in 3-5 years.
With few races and even fewer big-name riders to look up to, I don't see how a life-long hockey player is suddenly going to develop Tour aspirations by taking a fitness test.
the delgados said:
To be fair to Bauer, what he's doing is not a new idea. The theory is that in most countries there is a dominant sport, but few actually make it. Those that got close generally have 'something', so it's trying to see if they have what it takes in some other sport. It's a better prospect for the sportsmen than flipping burgers. (For example Greg van Avermaet is a failed footballer).
the delgados said:
Your point is well taken. But, look at the recent success of the Canadian Winter Olympic team. There was a program called "Own the Podium" and although some never medalled, many did. I was lucky to be close to the National Speed Skating program located in Calgary back in 2005-2007 and you might be surprised at the background(s) of some of the OTP speed skaters (Inline skaters-obviously, Road racers, soccer, track and field springers and hockey players). You may not be aware that many of the athletes who were behind the scenes competing for an Olympic spot were raising the competitive nature of most Winter sports contenders prior to the Olympics.
This was great for Canada, look at our medal list last year. Bauer is doing exactly what was done recently and he will make a difference. Any cycling exposure to new cycling athletes can only be viewed as positive. Good luck Steve.
NW
the delgados said:
I'm from Canada, so I'm aware of that.
The talent pool might be bigger than you think though-how many guys play Junior? If you're looking at being a 4th liner in the WHL with zero chance at an NHL or AHL shot, maybe you take a flyer on cycling if you have the motor? Bauer ought to be able to find a sprinter or two at least.
I think it's great he's looking at athletes in hockey. That's where he comes from. He found cycling when his mum was trying to find him an off season sport. He'll have credibility with hockey players because of that.
I also think the Own the Podium anaolgy is correct. Many talented people will look for the best opportunity, and he's offering one. There's only a few of us nuts enough to work our way into this sport on our own, and stick with it.
And regarding doping, since this is a doping forum, better to recruit racehorses and train them, than dope donkeys who wander in from the wilderness.
I also think the Own the Podium anaolgy is correct. Many talented people will look for the best opportunity, and he's offering one. There's only a few of us nuts enough to work our way into this sport on our own, and stick with it.
And regarding doping, since this is a doping forum, better to recruit racehorses and train them, than dope donkeys who wander in from the wilderness.
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