Storm Coming, or Clouds Parting?

May 20, 2010
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So, it seems like news coming out of the ongoing investigation has gone from a trickle to a drip, to nothing.

Is this the calm before the storm, or are the clouds parting?

The LA twitter goes on and on about cancer...... Levi is beating up on mountain bikers and beating LA record times.....The UCI is evidently staring at blood profiles for months and months, unable to decide if the dopers should be busted...... Former Disco riders are writing articles about NOT doping.

What gives?
 
_Zipp0_ said:
So, it seems like news coming out of the ongoing investigation has gone from a trickle to a drip, to nothing.

Is this the calm before the storm, or are the clouds parting?

The LA twitter goes on and on about cancer...... Levi is beating up on mountain bikers and beating LA record times.....The UCI is evidently staring at blood profiles for months and months, unable to decide if the dopers should be busted...... Former Disco riders are writing articles about NOT doping.

What gives?
I think it is very safe to say, both sides are preparing for a major legal battle and that preparation takes time. The BALCO scandal was very slow in coming to a conclusion after the first few scandalous revelations.

If I came off of 3 weeks of racing against the world's best and a decent rest cycle without having to go back to a real job, I think I could blow away a mostly weekend warrior field without doping.

The UCI is corrupt. The good news is the scale of the corruption has just started to reach the main stream media. There's bound to be much more to follow.
 
Apr 26, 2010
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_Zipp0_ said:
So, it seems like news coming out of the ongoing investigation has gone from a trickle to a drip, to nothing.

Is this the calm before the storm, or are the clouds parting?

The LA twitter goes on and on about cancer...... Levi is beating up on mountain bikers and beating LA record times.....The UCI is evidently staring at blood profiles for months and months, unable to decide if the dopers should be busted...... Former Disco riders are writing articles about NOT doping.

What gives?
It is the calm before the storm, watch all Hell break loose before the end of this season.
 
Apr 28, 2010
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Vonn Brinkman said:
It is the calm before the storm, watch all Hell break loose before the end of this season.
At the latest early next year.

(this hunch mainly comes from either a NYT or WSJ article in which they said some of the statutes of limitations would be up at that point)
 
Sep 25, 2009
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i understand the curiosity but why even to question the storm given how much we already know about the expanding investigation ?

the discovery phase is not over, we know that the gj proceedings are sealed and secret. why a surprise ?

clearly some leaking was done by the feds. they got the message across.

now it's time to wait for the show to start unless someone wants to give an impression for the pr spin - 'trickle to drip to nothing'
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Vonn Brinkman said:
It is the calm before the storm, watch all Hell break loose before the end of this season.
I'm not sure if it will be that soon, but I like to think of it like the time when they're filming episodes of 24. You don't hear anything for months, then all hell breaks loose and you hold on for the ride.

I think going for weeks without leaks is fine too, considering the powerful investigative tools they have. If the info isn't leaking, there's nothing for the other side to respond to in the press. Better to have a whole pile of allegations and evidence to back them up and there's no way they can respond to them all.

With WADA, Interpol and other national doping agencies working together, I hope this reaches into the nasty parts of the sport and pulls them out by the roots - doctors, trainers, suppliers, enablers, people working with substance still in the approval process, etc. Oh yeah - some cyclists too.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Barrus said:
At the latest early next year.

(this hunch mainly comes from either a NYT or WSJ article in which they said some of the statutes of limitations would be up at that point)
correct.

not being capable of legal analysis myself, i read just about any analysis that come my way. they all point to the fact that a wide ranging indictment will require a very careful preparation. lots and lots of corroborative evidence is needed since having only floyd's or lemond's testimony will be easy to shoot down. quickstepper even stated his doubts about successful prosecution solely based on the lack of experience by miller.

obviously, if they have time, the last thing they'll do is rushing.
 
Apr 28, 2010
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python said:
correct.

not being capable of legal analysis myself, i read just about any analysis that come my way. they all point to the fact that a wide ranging indictment will require a very careful preparation. lots and lots of corroborative evidence is needed since having only floyd's or lemond's testimony will be easy to shoot down. quickstepper even stated his doubts about successful prosecution solely based on the lack of experience by miller.

obviously, if they have time, the last thing they'll do is rushing.
To be quite honest, and please keep in mind that I have little to no knowledge of the American legal system, this what I am saying is solely based on knowledge from European systems, and is thus pure speculation, I think this is still a very short period. The investigation started late last year, to bring a case before the court only one and a half or at the most two years since the start of the investigation is very, very quickly. Therefore I do hope they have the time to cover all their bases, but I am kinda sceptical, two years at most seems very short, especially in a complicated investigation of fraud, doping and what-have-you and many different actors, different teams and in very different parts of the USA, or even the world.

In short: in my opinion they are rushing, because they need to be
 
Mar 18, 2009
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In the NYTimes (I'm sure there'll be a separate thread for this) it says that Roger Clemens is going to be indicted for perjury--so he'll be facing jail time for lying. Couldn't happen to a bigger ash-hole. I'm sure that's going to send a few shivers up the spines of the cyclists facing the grand jury in Lance's case.
 
The clouds have parted and the investigations have concluded.

What was uncovered was that no doping took place on US Postal, Armstrong won 7 Tours clean, he encouraged clean cycling from all his team-mates, they only used drugs and tested positive after USPostal, Landis made everything up, he has a vendetta against Lance, Betsy is crazy, LeMond is jealous, TREK bikes were sold to raise money for Livestrong and the on-going fight against cancer, donations to the UCI were above board to fight the war on doping, along with the UCI being above reproach and keeping accurate records of all donations.

The Feds not wanting to waste anymore of tax payers money on an un-American witch hunt will issue an apology to Armstrong on Friday. They will also make a sizable donation to Livestrong.
 
Apr 11, 2009
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_Zipp0_ said:
So, it seems like news coming out of the ongoing investigation has gone from a trickle to a drip, to nothing.

Is this the calm before the storm, or are the clouds parting?

The LA twitter goes on and on about cancer...... Levi is beating up on mountain bikers and beating LA record times.....The UCI is evidently staring at blood profiles for months and months, unable to decide if the dopers should be busted...... Former Disco riders are writing articles about NOT doping.

What gives?
Well, Roger Clemens was just indicted for lying to Congress. That was a long time ago. Bonds goes on trial in March, 2011. This isn't an episode of Law and Order whre it is all neatly wrapped up in 47 minutes of acting.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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shawnrohrbach said:
Well, Roger Clemens was just indicted for lying to Congress. That was a long time ago. Bonds goes on trial in March, 2011. This isn't an episode of Law and Order whre it is all neatly wrapped up in 47 minutes of acting.
Hey Shawn, I was waiting for your sprint for 2:41 min :D

Just put the hammer down in such a video ;)
 
Mar 11, 2009
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It sure seems to me that the Feds are going out of their way to ensure they do NOT catch Lance in a lie.

Leaking who they are taking testimony from....
Not getting Lance on record until the last minute if at all...
Not talking to WADA/INTERPOL/UCI....

And even if the FEDS were to catch Lance in a lie and they got him indicted, they must know a jury trial would SURELY end up in a Hung Jury. Mis-Trial SSDD.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Polish said:
It sure seems to me that the Feds are going out of their way to ensure they do NOT catch Lance in a lie.
I agree. I think they're trying to assemble the biggest body of credible evidence that they possibly can before they involve LA directly (if they actually choose to involve him directly). They don't want him for perjury.
 
Nov 17, 2009
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shawnrohrbach said:
Well, Roger Clemens was just indicted for lying to Congress. That was a long time ago. Bonds goes on trial in March, 2011. This isn't an episode of Law and Order whre it is all neatly wrapped up in 47 minutes of acting.
While true... many of the events involving Lance might be running out of time to bring him up on charges. Clemens testified to Congress in 2008. Lance's issues run from 1999-2005.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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Clouds parting. Unless they get Lance to perjure himself (he'll never take the stand) or catch him evading taxes, he will never have charges brought against him. For every person who "knows" he did or witnessed drug use, there are many others who "know" he was clean or at least never witnessed any drug use. That is clearly reasonable doubt in a criminal case and no prosecutor will bring charges. Lance has plenty of money, good adviser's and will not let his ego get the best of him like Roger Clemens.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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sagard said:
,<snip> (he'll never take the stand) or catch him evading taxes, he will never have charges brought against him.
just a question - where does your absolute knowledge of what will happen come from ? please enlighten us. as to the armstorng tax situation you seem to 'know' something that's highly desirable by the armstrong camp but never heard by anyone else.

the trend of the events so far suggests the opposite of your spin - heavy charges are likely particularly of fraud. several legal analysis pointed to that.
For every person who "knows" he did or witnessed drug use, there are many others who "know" he was clean or at least never witnessed any drug use.
please list them or suggest them. so far, there was none mentioned in the media whilst at least two former teammates of texas reportedly confirmed flandis's allegations.
That is clearly reasonable doubt in a criminal case and no prosecutor will bring charges.
it would be if you could back it up with some substance, as it is, it's in your brain's wishfull thinking compartment.
Lance has plenty of money, good adviser's
[/QUOTE]people with more money than texas just got indicted and previously lost. so your argument of having wealth is hollow, foolish in fact.
and will not let his ego get the best of him like Roger Clemens.
again, he proved the opposite in front of the millions of fans when he chased simeoni.

in conclusion, your post comes across as baseless and poorly informed.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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sagard said:
For every person who "knows" he did or witnessed drug use, there are many others who "know" he was clean or at least never witnessed any drug use.
So let me get this straight. If I kill your wife, and you witness me doing it, as long as I can find an army of people to say they didn't see me do it, I'm good to walk?

sagard said:
...and will not let his ego get the best of him like Roger Clemens.
Ok, you owe me a keyboard...and a fresh cup of Starbucks...
 
Aug 3, 2009
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I don't have a horse in the Lance deal. I've read the Walsh books and fully acknowledge the Lance BS. I'm just not as impressed with the investigators results with Balco as many here appear to be. He is going up against formidable opponents again.

Unless the investigation comes up with a lot more than they did when they took on MLB, nothing is going to come of it. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, and etc... are all walking around free, some with jobs in baseball. Most waiting to be honored by the Hall of Fame.

Clemens is in trouble because he took on his accuser. Lance won't make that mistake.

Good luck to all you who hate him and want to see him punished. I think it would send the right message to USA athletes and cycling in general, but I'm far less confident that anything will come of it.
 
Jul 18, 2010
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sagard said:
Unless the investigation comes up with a lot more than they did when they took on MLB, nothing is going to come of it. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, and etc... are all walking around free, some with jobs in baseball.
I think cycling is a much, much easier target. Were the managers organizing doping with all the players lining up for their injections in group doping sessions in baseball? In track and baseball these were individuals not organized doping at the team level.

All Novitzky has to do is give immunity to everyone except Lance and Lance is toast. You can't claim the 5th if you have immunity and no one is going to jail for Armstrong. They may or may not get fraud convictions but the doping stuff is all coming out in detail.
 
You can't prove a negative. If 5,999,999,997 people swear they never saw him use drugs, all that only goes to prove that none of them saw him. They probably never saw him tossing off either. But if three people swear they did see him, and especially if their details match, and a jury of 12 finds them credible, that's more than enough to convict.
 
henryg said:
I think cycling is a much, much easier target. Were the managers organizing doping with all the players lining up for their injections in group doping sessions in baseball? In track and baseball these were individuals not organized doping at the team level.

All Novitzky has to do is give immunity to everyone except Lance and Lance is toast. You can't claim the 5th if you have immunity and no one is going to jail for Armstrong. They may or may not get fraud convictions but the doping stuff is all coming out in detail.
You raise a very good point. Defending Lance to the media is a swish. But faced with the threat of prison you're not going to lie for anyone. Even if you wanted to you just won't lie to save anyone. Prison is not very nice. So I'm told.
 

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