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Suggestions and Ideas for the Tour de France

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Jul 31, 2009
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I vote for removing the stages from the stage race, 3500km straight through. Sleep on the side of the road when you want. Nap on your bike with a team mate on either side to hold you up. Stop at an AFLD station every 300 KM for pee testing of ALL riders (specifically for amphetamines, because in this race, staying awake equals winning!). Blood drawn before the race, a small vial at the halfway point, and one at the end. Gendarmes patrol the bushes on the side of the road looking for sneaky tranfusers. Every rider gets a GPS tracker locked onto their wrist so nobody can sneak off and catch a ride on the train. Each rider gets a small helmet mounted camera and microphone. Follow the race on the internet 24 hours a day. See what your favorite rider is doing at any particular time of the day via live internet feed from their helmet cam. Ride day, night, whenever you choose. Eat on the road or at camps set up by the team. Team strength, tactics, and pure determination (or some good doping) will decide the winner.
 
Steephill has some early likely Tour stages:

17 July: Stage 14, Rodez - Revel
18 July: Stage 15, Revel - Ax-3 Domaines
19 July: Stage 16, Pamiers - Luchon/Super Bagnéres (Portet d'Aspet, Col de Menté,
Port de Balès)
20 July: Rest Day
21 July: Stage 17 Luchon - Pau (Peyresourde, Aspin, Tourmalet, Soulor & Aubisque)
22 July: Stage 18 Pau - Col du Tourmalet (Marie Blanque, Aubisque, Soulor, Bordéres,
Tourmalet)
This will also be the Etape de Tour.
23 July: Stage 19 Salies de Béarn - Bordeaux
24 July: Stage 20 Bordeaux - Pauillac ITT
25 July: Stage 21 Rambouillet - Paris Champs Elysées
 
Mar 18, 2009
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For reference for the final time trial, the shortest road route from the outskirts (not inner city) of Bordeaux to the outskirts of Pauillac is 51.8kms

Hopefully the time trial is a lot longer than that (although I doubt it). Contador has a stamina problem and he loses time exponentially more as distance increases. So hopefully it'll be the longest one seen in 15 years or more. For the good of the race.
 
issoisso said:
For reference for the final time trial, the shortest road route from the outskirts (not inner city) of Bordeaux to the outskirts of Pauillac is 51.8kms

Hopefully the time trial is a lot longer than that (although I doubt it). Contador has a stamina problem and he loses time exponentially more as distance increases. So hopefully it'll be the longest one seen in 15 years or more. For the good of the race.

I assume the AC will be looking to take as much time as possible before the last TT, if what you say is correct.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Publicus said:
I assume the AC will be looking to take as much time as possible before the last TT, if what you say is correct.

Considering his climbing compared to the others and his time trialling compared to the younger Schleck, I'd say he only has to worry about bad luck (illness, crashes, etc). If he steers clear of that, he wins the Tour.

As for the stamina problem, months ago someone posted a copy of one of my posts from another forum where I showed by time splits (olympics, vuelta, tour, etc) how by about the 45th km of a TT he starts losing time even to guys like Sastre and Sörensen (that's on a flat TT).

It shouldn't be a concern, as he tends to win a lot of time in mountain stages, as he only seems to suffer on the wheels of others when the race has been ridden at a hard pace for a couple hundred kms, making stamina more important (2009 Tour stage 17, 2008 Giro stage 15, 2007 Tour stage 16, 2009 Paris-Nice stage 7, etc.). In that respect he's the anti-Sastre.
 
I like it Luckyboy!

MizunoMX20 said:
That would be almost my ideal route of the Tour de France as well!! I admire the work you put in to this and would like to compliment you on it, well done!
Haha, thanks :)

the Colle Fauniera. That looks like one wicked climb
Yeah, there's a Pantani monument on there too

I would personally like to see the Col de la Madeleine (from la Chambre) in your route as well. You could do it after the Glandon/Croix de Fer combo, although it would be tough to get to the Joux Plane from there.
I was thinking of putting that in somewhere, but I wanted the last Alpine stage to be the longest. I think it might be a bit too long at 232km though. They have three rest days anyway :p

In your stage to Alpe d'Huez is a slight mistake I think. Because if you do the Izoard from Guillestre you will get in Briancon after the descent. You would then either have to:

a) take a huge detour (I think through a tunnel of over 30km in length, so that wouldn't be good for the viewers) through Italy of 71km in total to get to the foot of the Telegraph, and then you would also have to do the Galibier straight after the Telegraph, and the stage would be about 204km

I did it all on Google Earth, so I didn't see any tunnels, but if I redid it, I'd probably take out the Telegraphe and maybe make the stage a bit shorter.

So maybe you could explain to me what your idea was?
In general? If you go back a page, you can see my idea that I was thinking of as I typed. Then on Saturday -I think - I was quite bored and decided to start it. Basically, I wanted the route to go to all 4 corners of France - some cobbles in the north, mountains in the south and east, and some sprinters ones in the middle. I was going to have the Saint-Brieuc & Le Mans stages both fully in Britanny by the coast, so that the wind might be a factor, but the travelling from there to EPOne (found that by chance :D) would've been too much.
I tried to make the mountain stage as hard as I could - out of the 8 and 1 TT, there are 2 flat finishes. These all took quite a while to do as it was hard to connect the mountains all together. The Aubisque stage was originally going to start in Jaca, Spain and be about 200km, but most of it would've been through the valley floor, so I copied the Giro's idea of the short Blockhaus stage. The Tourmalet is also there from both sides on consecutive days, so that would be interesting. Adding the Pelvo d'Elva was a bit of a wildcard - it would be the highest ever point on the Tour I think. I'm not even sure if it's paved, though I remember the Giro had a MTT a while back that was largely dirt tracks (EDIT: Plan de Corones last year)
The three rest days thing was mainly because of the huge transfers from Verdun to Gap, and Saint Beat to Saint Brieuc. Maybe moving the second rest day to Thiviers after the first TT would be better.

And here's some info on the climbs you didn't have stats on...
Thanks :)
 
luckyboy said:
Adding the Pelvo d'Elva was a bit of a wildcard - it would be the highest ever point on the Tour I think. I'm not even sure if it's paved, though I remember the Giro had a MTT a while back that was largely dirt tracks (EDIT: Plan de Corones last year)
Thanks :)

I did some research and apparently there's not even a dirt track to the summit of the pelvo d'elva (at least not one you could ride with your bike).

So... let's make them suffer for their money :p

bike on the shoulder and run!! :D

By the way, how did you make that map? When I was younger I made a lot of "fantasy tours", including correct profiles for individual stages, drawn by hand. It was fun, back then. Now that I see your work, I want to do it again. Does anyone know where the 2011 tour will start? Maybe we can give the ASO some hints how to lay out their race.
 
rghysens said:
I did some research and apparently there's not even a dirt track to the summit of the pelvo d'elva (at least not one you could ride with your bike).

So... let's make them suffer for their money :p

bike on the shoulder and run!! :D

Haha, the ASO could always put some tarmac down :D


rghysens said:
By the way, how did you make that map? When I was younger I made a lot of "fantasy tours", including correct profiles for individual stages, drawn by hand. It was fun, back then. Now that I see your work, I want to do it again. Does anyone know where the 2011 tour will start? Maybe we can give the ASO some hints how to lay out their race.

I used this map (with region capitals included)..
http://i36.tinypic.com/qqzno0.png

and then coloured it in..
http://i37.tinypic.com/2u7vjb5.jpg

You made the profiles?! I wouldn't even know how to do that on computer! Just looking at all these places and mountains on Google Maps, I realised how tough it must be to pick what roads to take and which places to go etc..
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Just on the point of Mountain top finishes:
To make the tour intersting you don't nessercarily to have 4mtp finishes: Look at past years races.
2009: 3 -Arcalis, Verbier, Mont Ventoux
2008: 4 - Super Besse, Hautacam, Prato Nevoso, Alpe D Huez
2007: 3 - Tignes, Plateau De Beille, Aubisque,
2006: 3 - Pla De Beret, Alpe D Huez, La Touissuire
2005: 3 - Courchevel, AX 3 Domaines, Pla-D'ADET
2004: 4 - La Mongie, plateau de beille, Villard de lans, Alpe D Huez
2003: 3 - Alpe D Huez, Ax 3 Domaines, Luz Ardiden

But exciting, close tours do have a lot more time trialing
2009:55km
2008: 82.5km
2007: 117.4km

2006: 105km
2005: 74km
2004: 76.6km
2003:102.5km
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
auscyclefan94 said:
But exciting, close tours do have a lot more time trialing
2009:55km
2008: 82.5km
2007: 117.4km

2006: 105km
2005: 74km
2004: 76.6km
2003:102.5km

Good analysis auscyclefan!!!

Further reiterates the point I've been making the long TT's can lead to exciting tours because the climbers have to attack in the mountains to make time back!!!

Why can Prudhomme not see this? Why does he continue to cut down the TT kms?
 
May 5, 2009
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luckyboy said:
You made the profiles?! I wouldn't even know how to do that on computer! Just looking at all these places and mountains on Google Maps, I realised how tough it must be to pick what roads to take and which places to go etc..

Man. you've made this a really interesting thread! Thanks! Boy, if you figure out how to do the profiles on the computer, let me know! : )
 

Click for larger image


STAGE 1 - Roubaix - Lille TTT 31 km

STAGE 2 - Lille - St. Quentin 169 km

STAGE 3 - Fourmies - Carignan 177 km

STAGE 4 - Carignan - Verdun 209 km

Rest Day

STAGE 5 - Gap - Pelvo d'Elva 160 km
Colle Dell'Agnello > Pelvo d'Elva

STAGE 6 - Cuneo - St Étienne de Tineé 182 km
Colle Fauniera > Cime de la Bonette

STAGE 7 - Bourg d'Osains - Col du Granon 203 km
Alpe d'Huez > Col du Lautaret > Col de l'Izoard > Col du Granon

STAGE 8 - Orelle - Col de Joux Plane 249 km
Col de la Croix de Fer/Glandon > Col de la Colombiere > Col de Joux Plane

STAGE 9 - Lyon - Ambert 178 km

STAGE 10- Issoire - Tulle 199 km

STAGE 11- Tulle - Limoges 169 km

STAGE 12- Aixe-Sur-Vienne - Thiviers TT 51 km

STAGE 13- Perigueux - Tonneins 193 km

STAGE 14- Agen - Pau 184 km

Rest Day

STAGE 15- Larrau - Hautacam 154 km
Col de Labays > Hautacam

STAGE 16- Bedous - Aubisque 70 km
Col de l'Aubisque

STAGE 17- Luz-Saint-Saveur - Tourmalet TT 18 km
Col du Tourmalet

STAGE 18- Llavorsi - Tourmalet 188 km
Col du Portillon > Col de Peyresourde > Col de Peyrefite/d'Azet > Col de l'Aspin
> Col du Tourmalet

STAGE 19- Rouze - Saint Beat 190 km
Port de Pailheres > Col d'Agnes > Col de la Core > Col du Portet d'Aspet > Col de Mente

Rest Day

STAGE 20- Saint-Brieuc - Laval 203 km

STAGE 21- Le Mans - Chartres 191 km

STAGE 22- Epone - Paris Champs TT 61 km

3429 km


Colle Dell'Agnello (Guillestre) 42km @ 4.1% 9003ft
Pelvo d'Elva No stats 10051ft
Colle Fauniera (Pradleves) 22.4km @ 7.5% 8236ft
Cime de la Bonette (Jausiers) 24km @ 6.6% 9190ft
Alpe d'Huez (Bourg d'Osains) 13.2km @ 8.1% 5953ft
Col du Lautaret (Le Clapier) 34km @ 3.8% 6752ft
Col de l'Izoard (Cervieres) 20km @ 5.8% 7744ft
Col du Granon (Saint Chaffrey) 11.5km @ 9.2% 7917ft
Col de la Croix de Fer 30km @ 5.1% 6783ft
Col du Glandon (Croix de Fer) 2.9km
Col de la Colombiere (Grand B) 11.7km @ 5.9% 5290ft
Col du Joux Plane (Samoens) 11.6km @ 8.5% 5546ft
Col de Labays (West) No stats 4431ft
Hautacam 17.3km @ 6.8% 5362ft
Col de l'Aubisque 16.6km @ 7.2% 5605ft
Col du Tourmalet 19km @ 7.4% 6937ft
Col du Portillon (Spanish side) No stats 3634ft
Col de Peyresourde (Bagneres) 15.27km @ 6.1% 5146ft
Col de Peyrefite/d'Azet (Genos) 7.47km @ 8.3% 5182ft
Col de l'Aspin (Arreau) 12km @ 6.5% 4883ft
Col du Tourmalet (S-M de Camp) 17.2km @ 7.4% 6937ft
Port de Pailheres (Mijanes) 10.6km @ 8.2% 6565ft
Col d'Agnes (East side) No stats 5149ft
Col de la Core (Seix) 13.8km @ 6.4% 4575ft
Col du Portet d'Aspet (Audress) 18.1km @ 3.1% 3506ft
Col de Mente (Le Couret) 10.9km @ 6.6% 4424ft


The Alpe d'Huez stage has been totally redone, now Alp d'Huez is the first climb, ending on the 9.2% Granon (steepest ever finish for a Tour stage back in the 80s). Also, the final TT is now longer..

For profiles of the TTs, mountain and the Le Mans stage, go to - http://www.bikely.com/listpaths/by/luckyboy
 
While the parcours of the 2010 tour seems way better than this year's, there is still some room for improvement. Since the race in 2011 will start somewhere in the Vendée, I propose the following route:

stage 1: Fontenay-le-Comte - Les Sables d'Olonnes (175 km) - flat
stage 2: Les Sables d'Olonnes - Cognac (198 km) - flat
stage 3: Barbezieux - Mont-de-Marsan (204 km) - flat
stage 4: Mont-de-Marsan - San Sebastian (243 km) - medium mountains
stage 5: Hendaye - Pau (169 km) - hilly
stage 6: Pau - Pau (23 km) - tt
stage 7: Pau - Bagnères-de-Bigorre (190 km) - high mountains
stage 8: Bagnères-de-Bigorre - Foix (197 km) - high mountains
stage 9: Foix - Pla Guillem (156 km) - high mountains, mtf
rest day
stage 10: Perpignan - Sète (153 km) - flat, finish on a hill: 1.7km @10%
stage 11: Sète - Nîmes (151 km) - flat
stage 12: Arles - Avignon (49 km) - tt
stage 13: Avignon - Sisteron (169 km) - high mountains
stage 14: Sisteron - l'Alpe d'Huez (172 km) - medium mountains, mtf
stage 15: le Bourg d'Oisans - Val Thorens (146 km) - high mountains, mtf
rest day
stage 16: Moûtiers - Aix-les-Bains (209 km) - high mountains
stage 17: la-Tour-du-Pin - Chalon-sur-Saône (162 km) - flat
stage 18: Chalon-sur-Saône - Bourges (220 km) - flat
stage 19: Châteauroux - Blois (208 km) - flat
stage 20: Evreux - Evreux (62 km) -tt
stage 21: Paris (+/- 135 km) - flat

mountain stages and tt's: http://www.bikely.com/listpaths/by/rghysens
Voila, a combination between tradition and some novelties. Messiers Prud'homme et Pecheux, feel free.
 
May 5, 2009
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Here's some weird variations I thought of for the Tour:

1. Have only the team captains ride the whole race. Just 20 or 25 riders with no domestiques and no help. I wonder how it would end with no one to draft behind! ; )

2. Have a race of attrition, where, if, for example, you start out with a whole peloton, the last two or three riders at the end of the day would be eliminated! : )

3. Make the Tour a month and half long, with no transfers, meaning, you always start the stage at the town where you arrived at the previous day! ; )
 
Don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but why can't they have a Women's TDF running simultaneously? Maybe their start time could be an hour or so before the men go. I know adding an entire second peloton would be a logistical nightmare, but I think it'd be cool to see.

(Was thinking about it, after catching 5 stages of the tour this year) Figured it could spice things up a bit, while you wait on the roads for hours to see the riders go by.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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rghysens said:
While the parcours of the 2010 tour seems way better than this year's, there is still some room for improvement. Since the race in 2011 will start somewhere in the Vendée, I propose the following route:

stage 1: Fontenay-le-Comte - Les Sables d'Olonnes (175 km) - flat
stage 2: Les Sables d'Olonnes - Cognac (198 km) - flat
stage 3: Barbezieux - Mont-de-Marsan (204 km) - flat
stage 4: Mont-de-Marsan - San Sebastian (243 km) - medium mountains
stage 5: Hendaye - Pau (169 km) - hilly
stage 6: Pau - Pau (23 km) - tt
stage 7: Pau - Bagnères-de-Bigorre (190 km) - high mountains
stage 8: Bagnères-de-Bigorre - Foix (197 km) - high mountains
stage 9: Foix - Pla Guillem (156 km) - high mountains, mtf
rest day
stage 10: Perpignan - Sète (153 km) - flat, finish on a hill: 1.7km @10%
stage 11: Sète - Nîmes (151 km) - flat
stage 12: Arles - Avignon (49 km) - tt
stage 13: Avignon - Sisteron (169 km) - high mountains
stage 14: Sisteron - l'Alpe d'Huez (172 km) - medium mountains, mtf
stage 15: le Bourg d'Oisans - Val Thorens (146 km) - high mountains, mtf
rest day
stage 16: Moûtiers - Aix-les-Bains (209 km) - high mountains
stage 17: la-Tour-du-Pin - Chalon-sur-Saône (162 km) - flat
stage 18: Chalon-sur-Saône - Bourges (220 km) - flat
stage 19: Châteauroux - Blois (208 km) - flat
stage 20: Evreux - Evreux (62 km) -tt
stage 21: Paris (+/- 135 km) - flat

mountain stages and tt's: http://www.bikely.com/listpaths/by/rghysens
Voila, a combination between tradition and some novelties. Messiers Prud'homme et Pecheux, feel free.

I really like it. Maybe you should be the race director insted of Prudhomme. he couldn't put out an as gooder route as you.
 
Per chance came accross this thread. I like it and want to see if there are any other ideas.

Thoughtforfood said:
On the final climb, use solid metal 5' barriers on both sides for the last 5K. As the final rider of the day crosses the 5K threshold, close a gate behind them. From the top, release a pack of ravenous wolves. It would do two things, reward riders for strength,(because the strong would finish before the wolves were released) and cull the weak from the herd. Now I realize this would have caused the untimely death of Kenny (my favorite rider), but sometimes you have to sacrifice things for the thrill of competition.

Its a nice idea in principle. Problem is once you think about it, Vino would deliberately finish with the Gruppeto, then take on and kill all the wolves.

Like I said tff. It was a nice idea, but you have to think through things before you post them ;)
 
Basically three themes, two of which will happen with current economics. Limit the flat stages which aren't hella windy or in a hardcore cycling area, and include more medium mountain stages. Limit the advantage of the long TTT. Stop ending high mountain stages in big valley towns.

1. Include a TTT most years but limit it to around 25-30k. Keep it technical.

2. Include the Massif Central climbs of yesteryear, every year.

3. Include Brittany every year. Require a transfer in and out to spare us from the interminable overland sprint stages it requires.

4. Never less than 5 summit finishes, and never more than 1 high mountain finish in a valley town.

5. Include the pave every year.

This would add up to a more selective race at the end, but IMO a more interesting one during the first weeks.