edit: didn't realise the purpose of this thread. will post Geraint's response in the other thread.
Thank you Gustav
Thank you Gustav
I used to take the gradual loss of Dutch competitiveness in procycling (in the mid-90s and 2000s) as a sign that we might not be preparing ourselves as properly as, say, the spaniards.Cloxxki said:I asked Bart Brentjens (you know, the former Olympic champ and bronze medallist) on twitter and the response was less than 0. Disappointing. He's a hero of mine who's been trained by a doper (Theunisse), works with Trek, and now runs a succesful MTB team. He needs to speak out.
FoxxyBrown1111 said:List of those who spoke out after the USADA vs Armstrong decision (mostly taken from this thread: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=17476)
Here is the "Armstrong Responder List":
(in alphabetical order)
-- Allen, Hunter (Trainer)
-- Anderson, Phil
++ Andreu, Frankie
- Bartoli, Michele
-- Bates, Phil (UCI Disciplinary Board !!)
- Bauer, Steve
++ Bishop, Andy
0 Bernaudeau, Jean Rene
-- Bruyneel, Johan
-- Carmichael, Chris
- Contador, Alberto
++ De Canio, Matt
- De Jongh, Steven
++ De Mondenard, Dr. J.P.
- Delgado, Pedro
- Dumoulin, Samuel
++ Engoulvent, Jimmy
-- Escartin, Fernando
-- Flax, Peter (Bicycling Mag)
-- Hammond, Roger
0 Harmon (Eurosport)
- Hinault, Bernard
-- Holm, Brian
- Indurain, Miguel
+ Jacques-Maynes, Ben
- Jalabert, Laurent
++ Kaggestad, Mads (Ex-Pro)
- Kelly, Sean
++ Kimmage, Paul
-- Kiserlovski, Robert
++ Larsson, Gustav
-- Lastras, Pablo
+ Leclercq, Jean Claude
++ LeMond, Kathy
-- McGrory, Scott
-- Merckx, Axel
-- Merckx, Eddy
-- Michaelson, Lars (DS)
- Miholjević, Vladimir
-- Ochowicz, Jim
- Pereiro Sio, Oscar
- Phinney, Taylor
0 Pineau, Jerome
++ Ressiot, Damien (Writer)
-- Rodriguez, Joaquim
- Roulston, Hayden
0 Savoldelli, Paolo
++ Simeoni, Filippo
-- Sutherland, Scott (DS)
0 Thevenet, Bernard
0 Ullrich, Jan
-- Unzue, Eusebio (DS)
-- Valverde, Alejandro
-- Van Leijen, Joost
0 Voeckler, Thomas
0 Voigt, Jens
++ Walsh, David (Writer)
++ Whittle, Jeremy (Writer)
-- Anheuser Busch
Anheuser-Busch, Inc (Manufacturers Railway), St. Louis Refrigerated Car Co., InBev, AmBev
Grupo Modelo – 50%, Craft Brewers Alliance (Redhook, Widmer Bros., Kona Brewing) – 32.2%, Tsingtao Brewery – 7%
Global and multi-country brands
Alexander Keith's, Beck's, Brahma, Budweiser (except the Czech Republic), Stella Artois, Hoegaarden, Leffe
Antarctica, Aqua Fratelli Vita, Astika
Baisha, BagBier, Bass, Belle-Vue, Boddingtons, Bohemia, Boomerang, Borostyán, Breda Royal Beer, Busch Beer,
Diebels, Diekirch, Dimix, Dommelsch, Double Deer, Dutch Gold,
Gilde Ratskeller, Guaraná Antarctica,
Haake-Beck, Harbin Brewery, Hasseröder, Hertog Jan,
Jinlin, Jinlongquan, Julius, Jupiler,
KK, King Cobra, Klinskoye, Kokanee,
La Bécasse, Labatt, Lakeport, Liber, Löwenbräu,
Marathon, Michelob, Mousel,
Paceña, Permskoye Gubernskoye,
Red Shiliang, Rifey, Rolling Rock, Rogan,
Safir, Santai, Sedrin, Sibirskaya Korona, Skol, Spaten, St. Pauli Girl, Sukita, Taller, Tolstiak,
Verboden Vrucht, Vieux Temps,
-- Nike (including Cole Haan, Converse, Hurley, Jordan Brand, Umbro)
Bold/Italic: Active riders/DSes who welcomed the USADA decision (Yes that´s the only ones. What a sad story!).
++; Spoke out clear & direct, and said/hinted that the ban was the absolute right decision, and/or called it what it is: Armstrong is/was a doper.
+; Saying/Hinting that the decision is correct, but ended shy of naming Armstrong directly and calling it what he is: a doper and liar.
0; Undecided speech; trying to be sarcastic; no direct saying that it is the right-and-only-decision that has been made by USADA.
-; Rubbish like: "It´s too late", "if" (there is no "if"; USADA didn´t just roll a dice, but got trou the evidence and a revisory board before doing the preferral of charges), "it´s past", "hurts cycling", "what is the gain", etc...
--; Absolute pro Armstrong (even taking over "original" Armstrong phrases): "witch hunt", "was/is good for cycling", "never positive", "no evidence", etc...
+1hrotha said:Agreed with Foxxy. Furthermore, since we only need the OP to contain the list, we can use this thread to discuss the responses, since Joe prefers to keep his thread restricted to the responses themselves.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/other-sports/former-us-postal-team-boss-johan-bruyneel-and-teammate-patrick-jonker-defend-lance-armstrong/story-e6frf56c-1226457757495One of Armstrong's teammates while he was at US Postal, Australian Patrick Jonker, said he was surprised by Armstrong's decision to give up the fight, but didn't doubt his former teammate's innocence.
"Everyone in the cycling community was definitely shocked to hear that Lance wasn’t going to defend himself against the US Anti-Doping Association, and we all know Lance is … somebody who doesn’t give in without a fight, so yeah, we’re definitely surprised. Maybe there’s more to it," Jonker said.
"Myself and many of his competitors, we were all under the impression that the Tour de France victories were all done on hard work, blood, sweat and tears.
"If there is proof from USADA that performance enhancing drugs were used, then definitely, that would be a massive blow to Lance and to the sport."
In contrast, five-time Tour de France champion Bernard Hinault was unsympathetic to Armstrong's plight.
"I couldn't give a damn," the French cycling icon who won the Tour in 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982 and 1985, told ouest-france.fr. "It's his problem, not mine. This is a problem that should have been sorted out 10 or 15 years ago but which never was."
http://www.timescall.com/ci_21397522/pro-challenge-riders-avoid-armstrong-sagaChris Horner, Armstrong's teammate on both the Astana and RadioShack team during the time the USADA alleges Armstrong was doping, including Armstrong's seventh Tour de France title, defended his former teammate.
"For me, I was there when he won his seventh and he's still a winner. I watched from my couch when he won his first six. He's still a winner for me too," Horner said Friday morning outside his Team RadioShack Nissan Trek bus, which sports a prominent Livestrong emblem.
"Whatever choices they decide to do with USADA, Lance is still a legend in my mind and always will be."
Longtime cycling announcer Phil Liggett said in an email to The Denver Post: "I am very saddened by the complete affair, but it was clear that sooner or later this day would come. Armstrong continues to deny all charges but seems to have lost the will to fight the doping agency. But, the fact that he has taken this route will, I believe, make him appear guilty in the eyes of the neutral World, guilty or not.
"This was all a long time ago, and the sport is ready to go forward and has worked very hard to clean up its act."
Way to give a strong unequivocal statement there, Phil. No fence sitting for you. Your resolute moral stance and the firmness of your opinion on Armstrong should resonate down through the ages as an example of how to defend the fairness of sport.Wicklow200 said:Phil Liggett sitting on the fence
http://www.timescall.com/ci_21397522/pro-challenge-riders-avoid-armstrong-sagaLongtime cycling announcer Phil Liggett said in an email to The Denver Post: "I am very saddened by the complete affair, but it was clear that sooner or later this day would come. Armstrong continues to deny all charges but seems to have lost the will to fight the doping agency. But, the fact that he has taken this route will, I believe, make him appear guilty in the eyes of the neutral World, guilty or not.
That's a very good question!The Hitch said:How can anyone seriously expect us to believe the sport is cleaning up from the Lance era, when it is now being spouted by Liggett, the man who more than anyone else spent his life defending that era as clean in the first place
Shouting about how the car in the movies can't possibly flip over, land on it's roof, blow up, then continue on with the hero shooting out the back won't make any friends with Pat and Hein outside the movie theater.The Hitch said:How can anyone seriously expect us to believe the sport is cleaning up from the Lance era, when it is now being spouted by Liggett, the man who more than anyone else spent his life defending that era as clean in the first place