Summary Reactions Armstrong Ban

[luckyboy]

edit: didn't realise the purpose of this thread. will post Geraint's response in the other thread.


Thank you Gustav

 

[sniper]

I asked Bart Brentjens (you know, the former Olympic champ and bronze medallist) on twitter and the response was less than 0. Disappointing. He's a hero of mine who's been trained by a doper (Theunisse), works with Trek, and now runs a succesful MTB team. He needs to speak out.

I used to take the gradual loss of Dutch competitiveness in procycling (in the mid-90s and 2000s) as a sign that we might not be preparing ourselves as properly as, say, the spaniards.

but owing to some more recent revelations i've come to drop that idea and am now worried that we are either lacking talent or the country is too flat.

Brentjes did indeed shed some rare bright light on dutch cycling back when he won gold. Sad to hear he's a juicer.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

CEM is surprisingly quiet. I patiently await Big Boat (RealGains on CEM*) to entertain us with some of his amusing "I told you so" snarky comments.

*99% sure same poster, though never verified.

 

[joe_papp]

Merge, mods?

Should mods/ed. try to merge the two threads to allow more efficient referencing and less duplication of effort?

I wouldn't oppose it b/c I'm loathe to see the effort of documenting reactions diluted.

List of those who spoke out after the USADA vs Armstrong decision (mostly taken from this thread: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=17476)

Here is the "Armstrong Responder List":
(in alphabetical order)

-- Allen, Hunter (Trainer)
-- Anderson, Phil
++ Andreu, Frankie
- Bartoli, Michele
-- Bates, Phil (UCI Disciplinary Board !!)
- Bauer, Steve
++ Bishop, Andy
0 Bernaudeau, Jean Rene
-- Bruyneel, Johan
-- Carmichael, Chris
- Contador, Alberto
++ De Canio, Matt
- De Jongh, Steven
++ De Mondenard, Dr. J.P.
- Delgado, Pedro
- Dumoulin, Samuel
++ Engoulvent, Jimmy
-- Escartin, Fernando
-- Flax, Peter (Bicycling Mag)
-- Hammond, Roger
0 Harmon (Eurosport)
- Hinault, Bernard
-- Holm, Brian
- Indurain, Miguel
+ Jacques-Maynes, Ben
- Jalabert, Laurent
++ Kaggestad, Mads (Ex-Pro)
- Kelly, Sean
++ Kimmage, Paul
-- Kiserlovski, Robert
++ Larsson, Gustav
-- Lastras, Pablo
+ Leclercq, Jean Claude
++ LeMond, Kathy
-- McGrory, Scott
-- Merckx, Axel
-- Merckx, Eddy
-- Michaelson, Lars (DS)
- Miholjević, Vladimir
-- Ochowicz, Jim
- Pereiro Sio, Oscar
- Phinney, Taylor
0 Pineau, Jerome
++ Ressiot, Damien (Writer)
-- Rodriguez, Joaquim
- Roulston, Hayden
0 Savoldelli, Paolo
++ Simeoni, Filippo
-- Sutherland, Scott (DS)
0 Thevenet, Bernard
0 Ullrich, Jan
-- Unzue, Eusebio (DS)
-- Valverde, Alejandro
-- Van Leijen, Joost
0 Voeckler, Thomas
0 Voigt, Jens
++ Walsh, David (Writer)
++ Whittle, Jeremy (Writer)

Companies:
-- Anheuser Busch

Subsidiaries
Anheuser-Busch, Inc (Manufacturers Railway), St. Louis Refrigerated Car Co., InBev, AmBev

Equity investments
Grupo Modelo – 50%, Craft Brewers Alliance (Redhook, Widmer Bros., Kona Brewing) – 32.2%, Tsingtao Brewery – 7%

Global and multi-country brands
Alexander Keith's, Beck's, Brahma, Budweiser (except the Czech Republic), Stella Artois, Hoegaarden, Leffe

Local brands
Antarctica, Aqua Fratelli Vita, Astika
Baisha, BagBier, Bass, Belle-Vue, Boddingtons, Bohemia, Boomerang, Borostyán, Breda Royal Beer, Busch Beer,
Carcau, Chernigivske,
Diebels, Diekirch, Dimix, Dommelsch, Double Deer, Dutch Gold,
Franziskaner,
Gilde Ratskeller, Guaraná Antarctica,
Haake-Beck, Harbin Brewery, Hasseröder, Hertog Jan,
Jinlin, Jinlongquan, Julius, Jupiler,
KK, King Cobra, Klinskoye, Kokanee,
La Bécasse, Labatt, Lakeport, Liber, Löwenbräu,
Marathon, Michelob, Mousel,
Natural,
Oranjeboom,
Paceña, Permskoye Gubernskoye,
Quilmes,
Red Shiliang, Rifey, Rolling Rock, Rogan,
Safir, Santai, Sedrin, Sibirskaya Korona, Skol, Spaten, St. Pauli Girl, Sukita, Taller, Tolstiak,
Verboden Vrucht, Vieux Temps,
Yali, Yantar,
Zizhulin, Zhujiang

-- Nike (including Cole Haan, Converse, Hurley, Jordan Brand, Umbro)

Bold/Italic: Active riders/DSes who welcomed the USADA decision (Yes that´s the only ones. What a sad story!).
___________________________________

++; Spoke out clear & direct, and said/hinted that the ban was the absolute right decision, and/or called it what it is: Armstrong is/was a doper.
+; Saying/Hinting that the decision is correct, but ended shy of naming Armstrong directly and calling it what he is: a doper and liar.
0; Undecided speech; trying to be sarcastic; no direct saying that it is the right-and-only-decision that has been made by USADA.
-; Rubbish like: "It´s too late", "if" (there is no "if"; USADA didn´t just roll a dice, but got trou the evidence and a revisory board before doing the preferral of charges), "it´s past", "hurts cycling", "what is the gain", etc...
--; Absolute pro Armstrong (even taking over "original" Armstrong phrases): "witch hunt", "was/is good for cycling", "never positive", "no evidence", etc...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Well, Joe. My idea was/is that the quotes of riders are discussed and linked in "your" thread, while i then publish the names on a daily basis front page on "my" thread for an easy-to-find-look.
I didn´t wanna take away from the other thread. Anyway, i was going trou "your" thread, it was very helpful to make the list...

 

[hrotha]

Agreed with Foxxy. Furthermore, since we only need the OP to contain the list, we can use this thread to discuss the responses, since Joe prefers to keep his thread restricted to the responses themselves.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Leadville Organizer

Leadville's organizer won't take Armstrong's win off their record. They aren't USAC sanctioned, so they can do that. The whole thread is far worse. People just making stuff up to protect dopers and doping.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=999582&postcount=18

To view the whole thread, request to join this group: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/LT100Bike/

Now, I have grave doubts about the faster weekend warriors at that event being clean.

 

[the big ring]

Agreed with Foxxy. Furthermore, since we only need the OP to contain the list, we can use this thread to discuss the responses, since Joe prefers to keep his thread restricted to the responses themselves.

+1

Joe is just jelly. Leave this thread alone so we can do what we normally do - discuss stuff. Current content will be on post 1.

 

[barn yard]

ullrich has an opinion in german

http://www.welt.de/sport/article108803765/Jan-Ullrich-lehnt-nachtraegliche-Titel-ab.html

 

[matter]

A short interview by the NOS. Gesink and Mollema http://nos.nl/video/410746-rabobankduo-over-armstrong.html

Gesink: "(..)we have to assume [the allegations] are true (...)". He softens up this claim by also questioning other things that happened in his time and he doesn't know enough about the case to have an educated opinion. (a 0 or a +)

Mollema in short: Bad news for the sport. It's a long time ago and they should leave it alone (I think a -)

edit: woops wrong thread. Copied it to the other one.

 

[thehog]

Iban Mayo: "Stupid **** got me banned!"

 

[Wicklow200]

Hinault looks like a 0

Patrick Jonker a -

One of Armstrong's teammates while he was at US Postal, Australian Patrick Jonker, said he was surprised by Armstrong's decision to give up the fight, but didn't doubt his former teammate's innocence.

"Everyone in the cycling community was definitely shocked to hear that Lance wasn’t going to defend himself against the US Anti-Doping Association, and we all know Lance is … somebody who doesn’t give in without a fight, so yeah, we’re definitely surprised. Maybe there’s more to it," Jonker said.

"Myself and many of his competitors, we were all under the impression that the Tour de France victories were all done on hard work, blood, sweat and tears.

"If there is proof from USADA that performance enhancing drugs were used, then definitely, that would be a massive blow to Lance and to the sport."

In contrast, five-time Tour de France champion Bernard Hinault was unsympathetic to Armstrong's plight.

"I couldn't give a damn," the French cycling icon who won the Tour in 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982 and 1985, told ouest-france.fr. "It's his problem, not mine. This is a problem that should have been sorted out 10 or 15 years ago but which never was."

http://www.foxsports.com.au/other-s...-lance-armstrong/story-e6frf56c-1226457757495

 

[Wicklow200]

Chris Horner is neutral, but think he was very supportive in other interviews

Phil Liggett sitting on the fence

Chris Horner, Armstrong's teammate on both the Astana and RadioShack team during the time the USADA alleges Armstrong was doping, including Armstrong's seventh Tour de France title, defended his former teammate.

"For me, I was there when he won his seventh and he's still a winner. I watched from my couch when he won his first six. He's still a winner for me too," Horner said Friday morning outside his Team RadioShack Nissan Trek bus, which sports a prominent Livestrong emblem.

"Whatever choices they decide to do with USADA, Lance is still a legend in my mind and always will be."

Longtime cycling announcer Phil Liggett said in an email to The Denver Post: "I am very saddened by the complete affair, but it was clear that sooner or later this day would come. Armstrong continues to deny all charges but seems to have lost the will to fight the doping agency. But, the fact that he has taken this route will, I believe, make him appear guilty in the eyes of the neutral World, guilty or not.

"This was all a long time ago, and the sport is ready to go forward and has worked very hard to clean up its act."

http://www.timescall.com/ci_21397522/pro-challenge-riders-avoid-armstrong-saga

 

[TubularBills]

Bicycling 'borrowed' your concept:

In Investigation of Lance Armstrong, Friends, Foes, and the Undeclared

http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/investigation-lance-armstrong-friends-foes-and-undeclared?page=0,0

 

[BroDeal]

Phil Liggett sitting on the fence

Longtime cycling announcer Phil Liggett said in an email to The Denver Post: "I am very saddened by the complete affair, but it was clear that sooner or later this day would come. Armstrong continues to deny all charges but seems to have lost the will to fight the doping agency. But, the fact that he has taken this route will, I believe, make him appear guilty in the eyes of the neutral World, guilty or not.

http://www.timescall.com/ci_21397522/pro-challenge-riders-avoid-armstrong-saga

Way to give a strong unequivocal statement there, Phil. No fence sitting for you. Your resolute moral stance and the firmness of your opinion on Armstrong should resonate down through the ages as an example of how to defend the fairness of sport.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I'm actually shocked he didn't say that Armstrong needs to delve into his Suitcase of Courage to get through this one...

What a media wh*re...

 

[mateostscha]

Unfortunately people and the media, forget everything he did and represente to this sport until today!
I also real a great criticizes here:
http://entrandonojogo.com.br/polemicas-de-heroi-a-vilao/

 

[The Hitch]

How can anyone seriously expect us to believe the sport is cleaning up from the Lance era, when it is now being spouted by Liggett, the man who more than anyone else spent his life defending that era as clean in the first place

 

[Maxiton]

How can anyone seriously expect us to believe the sport is cleaning up from the Lance era, when it is now being spouted by Liggett, the man who more than anyone else spent his life defending that era as clean in the first place

That's a very good question!

 

[DirtyWorks]

How can anyone seriously expect us to believe the sport is cleaning up from the Lance era, when it is now being spouted by Liggett, the man who more than anyone else spent his life defending that era as clean in the first place

Shouting about how the car in the movies can't possibly flip over, land on it's roof, blow up, then continue on with the hero shooting out the back won't make any friends with Pat and Hein outside the movie theater.

Post of the day: Suitcase of courage reference.

 

[sittingbison]

disgraceful declaration by Sydney's Phill Bates, a member of the international cycling union's arbitration tribunal:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...-lance-armstrong/story-fn8sc2wz-1226458458001

 

[fasthill]

From Tinkov:

Oleg Tinkov ‏@olegtinkov
Lance Armstrong will be stripped 7 TdF titles? Bad for cycling, but FAIR. If I'd WADA/UCI I would not give these titles to anyone,dark times

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Graham Watson

‏Graham Watson @grahamwatson10
Not sure which planet Tygart lives on, but someone should tell him Lance Armstrong won seven Tours de France - there's no changing that fact

 

[hrotha]

Ezequiel Mosquera
Summarized: "snitches get stitches"

Can we give him a ---?

 

[_frost]

Gustav Larsson

“It is quite obvious that Armstrong has doped,”

Continued...

Wow, applauds for Larsson!