Switching from mtb to road, race speed/tactic question

[Thorn Cycling]

Hi, I'm considering changing from mtb racing (focus on 6hr racing and xc) to road racing next season, and decided to do a local criterium this coming weekend to help me decide. Can anyone tell me the approximate speeds expected in a Cat 5 (lowest category), 25 min crit? Also, depending on speed, do you guys think it would be better to break away early and try to lap the field, break away in the last few laps, or wait for the bunch sprint?

Info on my riding so far:
Age: Junior 18U
Experience: 5-6 years serious training, mostly for mtb racing.
I've been riding 3+ days out of my 6 training days a week on the road bike, and can hang with the local A group (26mph, 41kph) for about 45 min b4 I get dropped and can hang with the A- group (22mph, 33kph) for a whole ride. Despite the time spent on the road bike, I have never done a road race/crit.

Race Course: 1.6 mile loop, mostly flat, with a fairly high number of corners for a crit and a few hills. the run in is flat, with a left hand corner 325m from the finish


Thanks for the help!!!

 

[L'arriviste]

Hi, I'm considering changing from mtb racing (focus on 6hr racing and xc) to road racing next season, and decided to do a local criterium this coming weekend to help me decide. Can anyone tell me the approximate speeds expected in a Cat 5 (lowest category), 25 min crit? Also, depending on speed, do you guys think it would be better to break away early and try to lap the field, break away in the last few laps, or wait for the bunch sprint?

Info on my riding so far:
Age: Junior 18U
Experience: 5-6 years serious training, mostly for mtb racing.
I've been riding 3+ days out of my 6 training days a week on the road bike, and can hang with the local A group (26mph, 41kph) for about 45 min b4 I get dropped and can hang with the A- group (22mph, 33kph) for a whole ride. Despite the time spent on the road bike, I have never done a road race/crit.

Race Course: 1.6 mile loop, mostly flat, with a fairly high number of corners for a crit and a few hills. the run in is flat, with a left hand corner 325m from the finish


Thanks for the help!!!

Perhaps you should consider riding your first crit for experience rather than worrying about being competitive the first time around. You'll be able to answer most of your questions after that. Best of luck and enjoy it!

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

Perhaps you should consider riding your first crit for experience rather than worrying about being competitive the first time around. You'll be able to answer most of your questions after that. Best of luck and enjoy it!

Exactly. My only suggestion is to stay near the front but not on the front. If you're feeling good at the end, and want to contest the sprint, go for it. If you're toward the back, a crash, sharp corner, or sudden surge of speed will have you riding solo to the finish. Then you will get no real crit experience except for the start.

 

[JayKosta]

Yes - try to stay near the front!
Of course everyone is trying the same thing.....

The start is especially dangerous at the first corner because of lack of experience with fast tight riding.

Try to be near the front at the start line, and then sprint out to be at or near the front.

Don't ride TOO close together unless you can really trust those around you.
Learn the best line around the corners, and also watch for sections of bad road surface.

The uphills are the best place to gain time, but don't let your downhill speed be more than you can handle at the corners.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
"rubber down, skin up"

 

[hrotha]

I'm curious - how much faster can you expect to go on a road bike compared to a MTB, all conditions being equal?

 

[Thorn Cycling]

Thanks for the replies every1!!! I'll try to stay nearish to the front of the bunch and sprint at the end if I have any legs left.


@hrotha,
On singletrack, the A-groups of the 2 group rides I attend most average 10-12 mph (16-20kph?) over rolling hills on a xc course for around ~2hrs, but I don't really know how a mtb's speed would compare over a road ride...the closest I've done is logging endurance miles on cinder/gravel roads, but these were more steady, long rides instead of fast paced rides over medium distances.

 

[L'arriviste]

OK, in retrospect perhaps I was a bit premature.

Great advice above, especially concerning the issues associated with lack of experience. It's surprising that, no matter how many junior crits you do, the field never seems to get any less jittery.

In my opinion, you have to be able to swallow your fear (your MTB experience will help here) and dare to stretch your sense of caution a bit because the excessive braking is precisely what stretches things out on a technical course. Get stuck at the back and you're out of contention. In my best crit results, I was always in the first five.

And again, it may come down to the long, complex nature of the parcours I raced, but only once did I ever win from a breakaway and I never saw any examples of lapping the field.

I would try not to worry about technicalities like speed and maintaining a sustained effort and concentrate on race craft though I appreciate you're trying hard to train for your races. Racing is the best training! Anyway, in my experience, crits were not about the strongest riders, they were about the savviest, the wisest, the best bike handlers and the exploiters of opportunity.

Best of luck once again and I hope you get the worst possible case of the roadie conversion bug!

 

[Thorn Cycling]

L'arriviste, I'll try to follow your instructions, thanks for the advice! very,very much appreciated!!!

 

[hrotha]

@hrotha,
On singletrack, the A-groups of the 2 group rides I attend most average 10-12 mph (16-20kph?) over rolling hills on a xc course for around ~2hrs, but I don't really know how a mtb's speed would compare over a road ride...the closest I've done is logging endurance miles on cinder/gravel roads, but these were more steady, long rides instead of fast paced rides over medium distances.

Thanks for the reply. What if we stick to yourself rather than to group rides? How much faster are you, on the flat, on a tarmac road, at the same level of effort?

 

[Thorn Cycling]

@hrotha, I'm not sure of the exacts, but probably around 3-8 mph (~4-12kph?) difference for just basic riding speed if both were on the same road with similar conditions. In a sprint or climb, the difference would be much higher percentage-wise in favor of the road bike, while on a very twisty descent, the difference would probably be less. Comparing flat road riding to singletrack riding, probably 6 mph would be a reasonable estimate, but my cyclo-computer is really, really bad (the group mph's are given using other ppl's in the same groups speeds) so I've probably got the speeds wrong to a few mph either way.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

Another thing is to stay attentive. This is really why you want to to stay toward the front. Reason I'm saying it is because I switched from years of MTB racing to road racing myself a couple years ago, and dropping from a calm and collected group of experienced mtb racers to cat/crash 5 road racing was a bit nerve-wracking. I noticed with mtb racing we'd get out there, set the pace, and just go hard to the finish, pretty much riding your own race after a few miles. Cat 5 road racing was very erratic, nervous and, like someone said above, jittery. I only make the suggestion because it will increase your chances of success and decrease your chances of getting caught in some crash that could have easily been prevented if someone was paying attention. Good luck and be safe out there.

 

[Thorn Cycling]

@Im.Kadence, Thanks for the tip!!!

 

[42x16ss]

The biggest thing that you will probably have to deal with when making the switch is responding to accelerations. As a MTB'er you are probably good at pacing, especially compared to guys who only race and train for a crit environment but that may have taken away some ability to really kick when you need to.

Stay alert for both the intermediate sprint and the last lap bell - the rise in tempo can be where riders that struggle with big accelerations can be caught out.

Otherwise, just enjoy it. Crit racing is a blast!

 

[hrotha]

Thanks for the answer, Thorn Cycling! I can't have a road bike so I wanted to imagine how fast I would be on one, you see.

 

[Thorn Cycling]

For anyone interested (I know, I know no one cares ) I ended up with a mid pack finish. I started in the 2nd to last row, so spent the first half of the race trying to fight my way to the front (I could move a few spots up per corner by taking the barely used inside line thanks to my mtb experience). With about 3 laps left, someone veered into my line on a corner and slammed on his brakes, so I ended up 20 feet off the back of the bunch with him. Spent the end of the race trying to get back onto the bunch by myself, and ended up about half way down the standing, thanks to lots of ppls dropping off the back in the last few laps. Over the race, I learned a HUGE amount, and now know that one of my main focuses for next season should be criterium-style handling and sudden accelerations, as my lacking of these held me back the most. My basic power, on the other hand, is in pretty good shape from mtb, so I finished the race with my legs fresher than after many of my training rides. Overall, It was a really fun race, and I'll be doing a lot more crits next year for sure.

 

[MD FACG FACP]

Good advice here. I like you made the move to road racing after many years on MTB racing. Our races were 40 minutes, avg speed in the 25's, fastest was 25.8. Circuit was about a mile with two 90 degree turns. My goal was to not get dropped I never did. Wasn't close to winning either. Remember to get ready to hammer coming out of the corners, and as others have said takes concentration to not make mistakes that can cause crashes. I loved it, very fun. Have fun and good luck !

 

[L'arriviste]

For anyone interested (I know, I know no one cares ) I ended up with a mid pack finish. I started in the 2nd to last row, so spent the first half of the race trying to fight my way to the front (I could move a few spots up per corner by taking the barely used inside line thanks to my mtb experience). With about 3 laps left, someone veered into my line on a corner and slammed on his brakes, so I ended up 20 feet off the back of the bunch with him. Spent the end of the race trying to get back onto the bunch by myself, and ended up about half way down the standing, thanks to lots of ppls dropping off the back in the last few laps. Over the race, I learned a HUGE amount, and now know that one of my main focuses for next season should be criterium-style handling and sudden accelerations, as my lacking of these held me back the most. My basic power, on the other hand, is in pretty good shape from mtb, so I finished the race with my legs fresher than after many of my training rides. Overall, It was a really fun race, and I'll be doing a lot more crits next year for sure.

Well done! So it sounds like there were all the right ingredients: brakes, bravery and brains. Glad to read you enjoyed it!

 

[Thorn Cycling]

Well done! So it sounds like there were all the right ingredients: brakes, bravery and brains. Glad to read you enjoyed it!

Thanks!!! But I'm not sure about the brains part. I should have been a lot more strategic, but I guess that'll come with more experience.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

For anyone interested (I know, I know no one cares ) I ended up with a mid pack finish. I started in the 2nd to last row, so spent the first half of the race trying to fight my way to the front (I could move a few spots up per corner by taking the barely used inside line thanks to my mtb experience). With about 3 laps left, someone veered into my line on a corner and slammed on his brakes, so I ended up 20 feet off the back of the bunch with him. Spent the end of the race trying to get back onto the bunch by myself, and ended up about half way down the standing, thanks to lots of ppls dropping off the back in the last few laps. Over the race, I learned a HUGE amount, and now know that one of my main focuses for next season should be criterium-style handling and sudden accelerations, as my lacking of these held me back the most. My basic power, on the other hand, is in pretty good shape from mtb, so I finished the race with my legs fresher than after many of my training rides. Overall, It was a really fun race, and I'll be doing a lot more crits next year for sure.

Good job Thorn; you did much better than me in my first crit. The more you race crits, the more you can anticipate the sudden accelerations. That was the most difficult part for me (that and guys drifting into my line ). Sounds like you have the legs, so you'll only get better with each one.

 

[ElChingon]

For practice go find the local big group ride everyone hates or warns people about because its unsafe, that's exactly what you'll see in the first Cat 5 race of the year as well. Expect the unexpected, like some rider heading straight for the first hay bale and not even turning away from it, or some rider caught up on that orange plastic fence for no reason, then riders turning when there is no turn, or riders moving in on you as if you are not there.

Stock up on tagaderm and other body repair kit needs, I'm not saying you're not a good rider only that $#it happens.

It is fun though!

 

[Thorn Cycling]

For practice go find the local big group ride everyone hates or warns people about because its unsafe, that's exactly what you'll see in the first Cat 5 race of the year as well. Expect the unexpected, like some rider heading straight for the first hay bale and not even turning away from it, or some rider caught up on that orange plastic fence for no reason, then riders turning when there is no turn, or riders moving in on you as if you are not there.

Stock up on tagaderm and other body repair kit needs, I'm not saying you're not a good rider only that $#it happens.

It is fun though!

Thanks for the advise!!! I've actually lately started training with a group of triathletes for that reason (and because they're crazy fast , whoever said that triathletes can't ride is plain wrong )

 

[ElChingon]

Thanks for the advise!!! I've actually lately started training with a group of triathletes for that reason (and because they're crazy fast , whoever said that triathletes can't ride is plain wrong )

Well ride is subjective and not associated with fast. Its usually when the two are mixed and sometimes it doesn't quite blend , then there's exceptions to every rule or generalization.