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Matt Hayman prior to Paris-Roubaix 2016 was (at least to me) unheard of as a potential winner of any respectable race (Paris-Bourges to me is a small race, not really worth mentioning) --- top10 material on a good day yes, but definitely no winner .... Sylvain has been a different story - not the obvious winner (like e.g. Boonen, Cancellara, Sagan or GVA) but definitely not a complete surprise either ...
DirtyWorks said:
Matt Hayman prior to Paris-Roubaix 2016 was (at least to me) unheard of as a potential winner of any respectable race (Paris-Bourges to me is a small race, not really worth mentioning) --- top10 material on a good day yes, but definitely no winner .... Sylvain has been a different story - not the obvious winner (like e.g. Boonen, Cancellara, Sagan or GVA) but definitely not a complete surprise either ...
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I believe I saw him on the very provisional start list for Chrono des Nations, but in any case, Paris Tours would be his last road racetobydawq said:
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Oh, that's possible. I just saw a tweet that said dernière course sur route.
Cance > TheRest said:
Oh, that's possible. I just saw a tweet that said dernière course sur route.
Respect to Chavanel, and comparing to the top-3 French riders of today, who may catch up, do better, he sets a mark:
45 Pro Wins, vs. Pinot 24, Alaf 18, Bardet 7.
10 of them WT, vs. Pinot 10, Alaf 9, Bardet 4.
That's pretty impressive. Got the yellow jersey, lost it and took it back in '10...that's an achievement in my book. What French rider ever achieved it? Only the greatests...and the following year, team player and second at the RVV, when he was clearly the better rider IMO.
What a career! Started of as an all-rounder, TdF hope, average ITT guy but aggressive. Like the Madouas kid. When Sylvain Chavanel bows out, he won't have regrets. He was a top notch rider for almost two decades. Chapeau.
45 Pro Wins, vs. Pinot 24, Alaf 18, Bardet 7.
10 of them WT, vs. Pinot 10, Alaf 9, Bardet 4.
That's pretty impressive. Got the yellow jersey, lost it and took it back in '10...that's an achievement in my book. What French rider ever achieved it? Only the greatests...and the following year, team player and second at the RVV, when he was clearly the better rider IMO.
What a career! Started of as an all-rounder, TdF hope, average ITT guy but aggressive. Like the Madouas kid. When Sylvain Chavanel bows out, he won't have regrets. He was a top notch rider for almost two decades. Chapeau.
Chavanel has always been a favourite of mine. He never became the next French superstar that he was hyped to be, but he has made a great career for himself. A proper strongman. And the whitest smile in the peloton, of course!
Between Chavanel, Voeckler, Fedrigo, and Casar of the end of the French breakaway era, I would say Chavanel had the best career of the 4.
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Chavanel is one of those riders that I have always rooted for. He's solid all around, no drama, great teammate from what I have seen following his career since his early days as a pro.
tobydawq said:
Chavanel is one of those riders that I have always rooted for. He's solid all around, no drama, great teammate from what I have seen following his career since his early days as a pro.
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From a breakaway. He held onto the time he gained. Chavanel could have did the same thing in 10 if he didn't have the mechanicals on the cobbles. Almost every year the Tour has a rider in the top 10 from a breakaway.
Chavanel was a lot better rider than Voeckler.
MuskyOurSaviour said:
From a breakaway. He held onto the time he gained. Chavanel could have did the same thing in 10 if he didn't have the mechanicals on the cobbles. Almost every year the Tour has a rider in the top 10 from a breakaway.
Chavanel was a lot better rider than Voeckler.
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As much as I love Chava (far more than Voeckler), he only took the stage and jersey at Spa because Cancellara made a scene until the peloton stopped to wait for the Schleck brothers who had crashed and were a long way behind.
(And the next day Cancellara attacked with Andy when Contador was caught behind Frank's crash, because that's what Cancellara is like)
SHAD0W93 said:
As much as I love Chava (far more than Voeckler), he only took the stage and jersey at Spa because Cancellara made a scene until the peloton stopped to wait for the Schleck brothers who had crashed and were a long way behind.
(And the next day Cancellara attacked with Andy when Contador was caught behind Frank's crash, because that's what Cancellara is like)
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What??
Voeckler didn't gain more than 4 minutes!
Chavanel could absolutely not have done the same.
SHAD0W93 said:
What??
Voeckler didn't gain more than 4 minutes!
Chavanel could absolutely not have done the same.
Both have 45 pro wins, 10 at WT level, and yes, Tommie has a brighter highlight with his '11 TdF. But is we look at monuments, TV has two top-10 in LBL (4-10) and a 8th at the RVV, vs. Chava has a 4th at MSR, a near miss and two other top-10 at the RVV (2-9-10), 7 and 8 at PR. RVV and PR say something about a rider. From that prospective, it offsets one magic summer IMO.
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Chavanel in my opinion was better at everything than Voeckler excluding maybe recovery.
In 2011 there was 12 stages left for Voeckler who had a 2'26" lead over Evans with both Schleck's less than 20 seconds behind. He had 3'30" on Basso and Cunego, 4'07" on Contador and 5'01" on Sanchez. He finished 3'20" behind Evans. Many contenders got injured and either continued hurt or abandoned.
Of those 12 stages; 4 flat, 1ITT, 6 high mountain designated, and 1 medium mountain. 3 downhill finishes.
3 of the mountain stages the break won and the ones that the breakaway didn't win the peleton wasn't doing much. Schleck's decided not to attack till late on all the stages excluding the 1 Andy won and Evans didn't need to attack because of the ITT. It got to the point Sanchez and Vanderent were let go for their stage wins. That slow pace helped Voeckler immensely and the only people he had to worry about was Evans and the Schlecks.
tobydawq said:
Chavanel in my opinion was better at everything than Voeckler excluding maybe recovery.
In 2011 there was 12 stages left for Voeckler who had a 2'26" lead over Evans with both Schleck's less than 20 seconds behind. He had 3'30" on Basso and Cunego, 4'07" on Contador and 5'01" on Sanchez. He finished 3'20" behind Evans. Many contenders got injured and either continued hurt or abandoned.
Of those 12 stages; 4 flat, 1ITT, 6 high mountain designated, and 1 medium mountain. 3 downhill finishes.
3 of the mountain stages the break won and the ones that the breakaway didn't win the peleton wasn't doing much. Schleck's decided not to attack till late on all the stages excluding the 1 Andy won and Evans didn't need to attack because of the ITT. It got to the point Sanchez and Vanderent were let go for their stage wins. That slow pace helped Voeckler immensely and the only people he had to worry about was Evans and the Schlecks.
Voeckler was the best stage race rider, that much is clear. The mountains were usually too much for Chavanel. Both were quite similar tactics wise. They would kill themselves for no gain or try something daring and it sometimes paid off. Who dares wins and all that. More like De Gendt type riders than someone who was smart tactically but they rode to their strengths like De Gendt does.and De Gendt made a Giro podium based on one of his signature type breakaway rides so it sometimes pays off in a big way.
I wouldn't underestimate Voeckler's Tour exploits but once again it was his lack of tactical awareness that could have cost him a podium in the 2011 Tour when he burnt himself for a long time between the bunch and Andy Schleck's break when he should have waited for the bunch especially after Evans dropped out of the group. By the time they hit the final climb on the Alpe he was dead and lost big time. He was already spent when Evan's chase group caught him and dropped him and he had to chase for a long time to get back to the front. He was even going off at his own team that were accidentally riding away from him.
I wouldn't underestimate Voeckler's Tour exploits but once again it was his lack of tactical awareness that could have cost him a podium in the 2011 Tour when he burnt himself for a long time between the bunch and Andy Schleck's break when he should have waited for the bunch especially after Evans dropped out of the group. By the time they hit the final climb on the Alpe he was dead and lost big time. He was already spent when Evan's chase group caught him and dropped him and he had to chase for a long time to get back to the front. He was even going off at his own team that were accidentally riding away from him.
I'm not trying to play down his abilities or underestimate him, I just think of the 2 Chavanel was better excluding ambition and like a said recovery.
Voeckler received a once in a life time opportunity and he did everything in his power to get as much as he could from it. I agree he could have played the last couple stages better and got a podium. All I am saying is he had a lot go his way that helped him gain that 4th and foght for the podium.
Between the 2 I would say Voeckler was the more ambitious one as I don't t think Chavanel would have even tried to maintain his GC position just like Lulu. I think Chavanel could if he truly wanted to but never cared to try
My memory could be wrong but I don't remember Lulu being in a crash that year, so he could have tried for a GC position as well, especially considering his finishes the year before.
It seems like the end of the French breakaway era with their high profile riders being climbers and sprinters.
Voeckler received a once in a life time opportunity and he did everything in his power to get as much as he could from it. I agree he could have played the last couple stages better and got a podium. All I am saying is he had a lot go his way that helped him gain that 4th and foght for the podium.
Between the 2 I would say Voeckler was the more ambitious one as I don't t think Chavanel would have even tried to maintain his GC position just like Lulu. I think Chavanel could if he truly wanted to but never cared to try
My memory could be wrong but I don't remember Lulu being in a crash that year, so he could have tried for a GC position as well, especially considering his finishes the year before.
It seems like the end of the French breakaway era with their high profile riders being climbers and sprinters.
Chavanel was far more consistent through the years.
That said, peak Voeckler (2010-2013) was an incredible racer and stage hunter.
That said, peak Voeckler (2010-2013) was an incredible racer and stage hunter.
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Happy retirement Chava, Thank you!
Hopefully not. That's why the Cosnefroy or Madouas youngsters are so exciting to me.SHAD0W93 said:
Happy retirement Chava, Thank you!
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