Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[yaf2]

just rewatched cipressa, narvaez and pog started the climb outside the first 25 riders and while wellens was going full gas with vdp and ganna in p2 and p3, they had to make up a lot of ground, at one point they were 100 meters behind van der poel. How is it possible that UAE is always so bad at positioning there, I mean it's clearly difficult to enter with a full train at the front, but you should at least be able to have wellens, narvaez and pog in the first 10 positions. Congrats to narvaez, he was very strong to do that last pull after having to get past so many riders

I dont think all 3 going in top 10 positions would make a difference to the result because vdp was always in control on cipressa and wasn't on his limits. On such gradients i just can't see how pog could drop him especially since it was the first all out effort of the day.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He competes in Roubaix as well.

Nah, his bike handling is not good enough.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Nah, his bike handling is not good enough.

dry roubaix he could manage but i think he'll lose a sprint to whatever classics rider is still there. He can't beat VDP in a sprint there. Nor Ganna, nor Van Aert (not in that sprint anyway)... nor Pedersen.

In a wet roubaix he'd crash trying to follow VDP round a cobbled corner

 

[scribers]

I dont think all 3 going in top 10 positions would make a difference to the result because vdp was always in control on cipressa and wasn't on his limits. On such gradients i just can't see how pog could drop him especially since it was the first all out effort of the day.

He has to roll up and keep trying until the correct dynamic occurs. If MVP and Pogi swap position placement at the base of the Cipressa, Pogi is gone and MVP isn't catching him

 

[Red Rick]

If Pog is solo from the Cipressa I don't think it's all that sure they stay away

 

[scribers]

Alternatively, stop racing it and let the team figure out different ways to contest it. The guys who want leadership roles can have at it.

 

[Peyroteo94]

If Pog is solo from the Cipressa I don't think it's all that sure they stay away

Pogacar alone (MVP did a half pull once) was creating a 45 seconds gap to the peloton. The peloton was full of empty legs, he could arrive to the Poggio easily with a 20 seconds gap and that would be more than enough.

 

[rafa92]

i feel ridiculous even trying to mention a critique to pog after the spectacle he has given us today, but why did he give a 10 meters head start to vdp in the sprint??? i mean he would probably have lost anyway but still I don't understand his choice because it was clearly his choice. If you look at the actual sprint pog did not lose a single meter to vdp, maybe he got even closer than when he started the sprint

 

[Peyroteo94]

i feel ridiculous even trying to mention a critique to pog after the spectacle he has given us today, but why did he give a 10 meters head start to vdp in the sprint??? i mean he would probably have lost anyway but still I don't understand his choice because it was clearly his choice. If you look at the actual sprint pog did not lose a single meter to vdp, maybe he got even closer than when he started the sprint

When you are too tired, sometimes your brain doesn't think well

 

[Poursuivant]

i feel ridiculous even trying to mention a critique to pog after the spectacle he has given us today, but why did he give a 10 meters head start to vdp in the sprint??? i mean he would probably have lost anyway but still I don't understand his choice because it was clearly his choice. If you look at the actual sprint pog did not lose a single meter to vdp, maybe he got even closer than when he started the sprint

Lot of talk about the sprint but Pog was never beating MVDP in a sprint. Has he ever?

He had to go solo and threw the kitchen sink at it, it just wasn’t enough.

He will win MSR one day though.

 

[kn0s]

i feel ridiculous even trying to mention a critique to pog after the spectacle he has given us today, but why did he give a 10 meters head start to vdp in the sprint??? i mean he would probably have lost anyway but still I don't understand his choice because it was clearly his choice. If you look at the actual sprint pog did not lose a single meter to vdp, maybe he got even closer than when he started the sprint

He was waiting for Van Baarle to catch up.

 

[scribers]

I felt he made a string of tactical mistakes.

1. He didn't have to drag those two to the poggio. The peloton comes back, MVP risks what happened to him last year.
2. He should have let Ganna back on after the pogi after he couldn't shake MVP. Ganna is an element that would test MVP, and that element was not only neutralized, it came back to take 2nd from Pogi (not that he or any of us cared for it)
3. That sprint was just capitulation. Lining up behind a cooked ganna was never going to be a useful sprint tactic.

The cipressa was not his fault, in fact his role in it was brilliant. The failure to shake the actual podium there, was as much the team's decision to play luck merchant with bad personnel and preparation.

 

[Salvarani]

i feel ridiculous even trying to mention a critique to pog after the spectacle he has given us today, but why did he give a 10 meters head start to vdp in the sprint??? i mean he would probably have lost anyway but still I don't understand his choice because it was clearly his choice. If you look at the actual sprint pog did not lose a single meter to vdp, maybe he got even closer than when he started the sprint

He dont have the same acceleration as MVDP.

He dropped to come with more speed and to use the element of surprise, as they were still +250m out from there at that point.

But MVDP picked it up and as he saw Pog had started his sprint from further back, he went for it as well. He was then strong enough hold them off.

I think Ganna messed up not following MVDPs wheel, he might been able to come back or used his slipstream better if so. However, I think MVDP sprint was so strong I dont think it would have really mattered when and where someone would have started the sprint out of the three of them today. He had more left for that kind of effort it looked like and that is what you need after a race ridden like today.

 

[rafa92]

Lot of talk about the sprint but Pog was never beating MVDP in a sprint. Has he ever?

He had to go solo and threw the kitchen sink at it, it just wasn’t enough.

He will win MSR one day though.

I said it myself that he wasn't going to win anyway, I simply don't understand why he let so much space between him and vdp at the start of the spring, if you look at the helicopter shot it's ridiculous how far behind he was

 

[scribers]

Lot of talk about the sprint but Pog was never beating MVDP in a sprint. Has he ever?

He had to go solo and threw the kitchen sink at it, it just wasn’t enough.

He will win MSR one day though.

He did beat MVP last year tactically in that final stretch. He had to try to play that card again.

 

[scribers]

If Pog is solo from the Cipressa I don't think it's all that sure they stay away

I think the tailwind was showing at 15km an hour? This condition may never happen again.

 

[Salvarani]

I said it myself that he wasn't going to win anyway, I simply don't understand why he let so much space between him and vdp at the start of the spring, if you look at the helicopter shot it's ridiculous how far behind he was

Because he wanted to use a few extra meters to build up speed.... but MVDP saw what he was doing and knew he had to start his sprint as well to not get overtaken. He was then strong enough to just never let Ganna and Pog have a chance to get close or past him.

 

[Peyroteo94]

MVP is more human than Pogi. He is way more used to reduced sprints. Pogi only knows one tactic, "push more watts and drop everyone".

 

[Salvarani]

MVP is more human than Pogi. He is way more used to reduced sprints. Pogi only knows one tactic, "push more watts and drop everyone".

Yet, Pog has won three monuments from sprints so it is something he has shown he can do. But it of course depends against who you are sprinting against and in what type of race.

 

[yaf2]

He has to roll up and keep trying until the correct dynamic occurs. If MVP and Pogi swap position placement at the base of the Cipressa, Pogi is gone and MVP isn't catching him

The correct dynamic in my eyes, is that now we have seen vdp how strong he is so the previous(like last years) uae tactics of a cipressa hard pace and an attack on poggio is out of the window(i hope we never gonna even consider it.) 2, todays tactic of going easy on capo berta and trying to put the whole team to the front to cipressa is like a lottery since all teams are trying to put theirs to the front there is always the washing machine effect so somebody is gonna miss the train and even if u get the perfect lineup for cipressa its hard to drop vdp on the 1st full gas effort of the day. 3, The only chance for pog/uae to win this race in my eyes is either doing the above tactics but preserving narvaez & wellens to play as tactical cards or to make sanremo an attrition by going full gas sprint on capo berta by deltoro in the hope it will put some lactate into vdps legs and attack on cipressa like today

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think the tailwind was showing at 15km an hour? This condition may never happen again.

But he doesn't need a tailwind. He just needs no headwind and he is fine.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

i feel ridiculous even trying to mention a critique to pog after the spectacle he has given us today, but why did he give a 10 meters head start to vdp in the sprint??? i mean he would probably have lost anyway but still I don't understand his choice because it was clearly his choice. If you look at the actual sprint pog did not lose a single meter to vdp, maybe he got even closer than when he started the sprint

ofc he got closer, slipstream.

 

[yaf2]

I think the tailwind was showing at 15km an hour? This condition may never happen again.

Yes we also have to consider this. If pog cant drop him on this strong tail wind it means the probabilities are very low he will drop him next year with todays tactics.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yes we also have to consider this. If pog cant drop him on this strong tail wind it means the probabilities are very low he will drop him next year with todays tactics.

A tailwind or no wind is the same if you want to drop somebody.
However it is better to have a tailwind if you want to maintain a gap against a peloton.

 

[Salvarani]

Yes we also have to consider this. If pog cant drop him on this strong tail wind it means the probabilities are very low he will drop him next year with todays tactics.

All that depends on if MVDP is as good as today. If Pog is as good as today. How positions play out in crucial moments. Team performance. Crashes. Weather. All of these are factors that plays into it.

Like a lot can happen in a year and on the day.

Very rarely will the exact same scenario play out.

We will just have to wait and see what happens. What could happen.