Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

First of all, excuse my English, it isn´t my native language.

I've been reading you for a while, and this time I need to react to the undervaluation of what this rider is doing in specialized cycling. Van der Poel doesn't return to Strade Bianche or Liege this year, where he would have finished second and third, and Vingegaard doesn't compete in Liège or Lombardia every year.

Since Fignon any TDF winner competed in Roubaix. When Wiggins did it, he didn't have the Tour as his goal.

He did it by finishing second. Simply finishing in the top 10 would´ve been incredible.

Paris Roubaix is the one-day race where experience is most noticeable; without it, has come second. With experience, he'll do better. I think he will win Paris-Roubaix before San Remo



When I read this thread, it always struck me that the most critical ones are a Froome and Vingegaard fanatic. What would they have done in Roubaix?

And I don't understand why a Remco fan would criticize him. Remco acknowledged the difficulty of the cobblestones for him, and that should give value to what Pogacar did today. If you like Remco, you can't hate Pogacar. He's doing what was expected of Remco in these types of races, which, unfortunately, Remco hasn't dared to enter yet. Not even Milano San Remo. I don't understand why someone who goes and makes the podium is criticized by fans of riders who didn't dare. It's incredible to finish second without experience as a TDF rider.

Nothing is written about fanatism, but liking Froome, who was terrible on cobbles underestimating Pogacar for not winning the PR the first time around is certainly strange.

Amen to you! Another person realizing what is going on.
Edit: Remco can't do what Pogacar does at all. He would get murdered in RVV and specially PR.

 

[scribers]

First of all, excuse my English, it isn´t my native language.

I've been reading you for a while, and this time I need to react to the undervaluation of what this rider is doing in specialized cycling. Van der Poel doesn't return to Strade Bianche or Liege this year, where he would have finished second and third, and Vingegaard doesn't compete in Liège or Lombardia every year.

Since Fignon any TDF winner competed in Roubaix. When Wiggins did it, he didn't have the Tour as his goal.

He did it by finishing second. Simply finishing in the top 10 would´ve been incredible.

Paris Roubaix is the one-day race where experience is most noticeable; without it, has come second. With experience, he'll do better. I think he will win Paris-Roubaix before San Remo



When I read this thread, it always struck me that the most critical ones are a Froome and Vingegaard fanatic. What would they have done in Roubaix?

And I don't understand why a Remco fan would criticize him. Remco acknowledged the difficulty of the cobblestones for him, and that should give value to what Pogacar did today. If you like Remco, you can't hate Pogacar. He's doing what was expected of Remco in these types of races, which, unfortunately, Remco hasn't dared to enter yet. Not even Milano San Remo. I don't understand why someone who goes and makes the podium is criticized by fans of riders who didn't dare. It's incredible to finish second without experience as a TDF rider.

Nothing is written about fanatism, but liking Froome, who was terrible on cobbles underestimating Pogacar for not winning the PR the first time around is certainly strange.

Thank you. Really appreciate your thoughts and candor

 

[Peyroteo94]

Really exceeded my expectations. I think he would finish 2nd even without that crash but we will never know.

I was more dissapointed with his team as other than that Politt half atack they were nowhere to be seen.

He punctured in Aremberg

 

[scribers]

I don’t know why you guys repeatedly take the bait and continue to answer these posters. There are two in particular that contribute nothing of value and show up only to poke and taunt other forum members.

MVDP showed his prowess today without any question - and I can’t see any scenario where the podium would have been different. That being said, this need to continually minimize or debase what we are witnessing with Pogačar is incredibly dull.

He races year round, demonstrates a versatility on the road that is unmatched and is a contender in any type of race he enters. His peers understand that they are racing against possibly the greatest rider of all time. It’s only a small subsect of posters here that find some strange pleasure in being contrarian and obfuscating the truth.

Thank you. You’ve been on the forums a long time and seen a lot of things. Your insight is greatly appreciated

 

[JoãoRamos]

VDP clearly broke the rules with illegal feeding in the final 14km — and both he and his team director were hit with heavy fines. This wasn’t a grey area or a misunderstanding. It was a conscious decision to cheat, hoping the consequences wouldn’t be severe.

The truth is, without that illegal feeding, VDP might not have finished the race the way he did. It gave him an unfair advantage, plain and simple. They gambled by breaking the rules — now they should face the full penalty: disqualification.

I know Pogacar is a true sportsman and doesn’t want to win like this. But this is about more than one rider or one race. It’s about the credibility of cycling. If rules aren’t enforced properly, it sets a dangerous precedent.

UAE should appeal. Not for the win, but for the integrity of the sport.

 

[scribers]

Really exceeded my expectations. I think he would finish 2nd even without that crash but we will never know.

I was more dissapointed with his team as other than that Politt half atack they were nowhere to be seen.

Florian did well. With pogi attacking early and often it left him following wheels. I did expect Florian to benefit from this in the velodrome. But he was up against the best of the rest.

 

[Cycling111]

He lost, and he would have lost anyway. He actually has his limitations. Not Merckx, not Hinault.

This isn't true. Pogacar is no worse than Hinault in one-day races.

Hinault never won Milano San Remo; his best result was seventh.

Hinault won his only world championship on a circuit with over 6,000 meters of elevation. Pogacar was third in Glasgow.

Hinault was a superclass rider, but he didn't win a PR on his first attempt either; he won on his fourth attempt, and when Moser's performance had declined.
Against the best Moser, Hinault was out of the top 10 for two years. Pogacar today competed against the best VDP and finished second.

Comparisons with Merckx are impossible due to the specialization of cycling, while Pogacar is competing here, Remco will arrive ready for Liège, and Vingegaard will be rested for the Tour. Merckx's rivals compite all year. But I understand why he's considered far superior.

But Hinault was no more versatile than Pogacar in one-day races. Pogacar is more complete than him, comparing his performances in San Remo or Ardenes. It remains to be seen whether Pogacar can win Roubaix, but he has De Ronde and in Liège, and Lombardy is superior to Bernard, which is incredible because Bernard was a monster in hard classsics, as he demonstrated in the WC of Sallanches

 

[Peyroteo94]

VDP clearly broke the rules with illegal feeding in the final 14km — and both he and his team director were hit with heavy fines. This wasn’t a grey area or a misunderstanding. It was a conscious decision to cheat, hoping the consequences wouldn’t be severe.

The truth is, without that illegal feeding, VDP might not have finished the race the way he did. It gave him an unfair advantage, plain and simple. They gambled by breaking the rules — now they should face the full penalty: disqualification.

I know Pogacar is a true sportsman and doesn’t want to win like this. But this is about more than one rider or one race. It’s about the credibility of cycling. If rules aren’t enforced properly, it sets a dangerous precedent.

UAE should appeal. Not for the win, but for the integrity of the sport.

Don't be silly and praise a fantastic and deserved winner. Pogacar only has to blame himself

 

[JoãoRamos]

Don't be silly and praise a fantastic and deserved winner. Pogacar only has to blame himself

Yes, and VDP has to blame himself for cheating.

 

[Peyroteo94]

This isn't true. Pogacar is no worse than Hinault in one-day races.

Hinault never won Milano San Remo; his best result was seventh.

Hinault won his only world championship on a circuit with over 6,000 meters of elevation. Pogacar was third in Glasgow.

Hinault was a superclass rider, but he didn't win a PR on his first attempt either; he won on his fourth attempt, and when Moser's performance had declined.
Against the best Moser, Hinault was out of the top 10 for two years. Pogacar today competed against the best VDP and finished second.

Comparisons with Merckx are impossible due to the specialization of cycling, while Pogacar is competing here, Remco will arrive ready for Liège, and Vingegaard will be rested for the Tour. Merckx's rivals compite all year. But I understand why he's considered far superior.

But Hinault was no more versatile than Pogacar in one-day races. Pogacar is more complete than him, comparing his performances in San Remo or Ardenes. It remains to be seen whether Pogacar can win Roubaix, but he has De Ronde and in Liège, and Lombardy is superior to Bernard, which is incredible because Bernard was a monster in hard classsics, as he demonstrated in the WC of Sallanches

Pogacar at 90% beats every Remco you put there in LBL.

 

[Gigs_98]

Yeah I remember arguing after that 2022 cobbles stage in the Tour that he would be one of the favorites at PR and there were a lot of people feeling very smart explaining to me why a TdF stage means nothing for PR at all. That was after he had already been one of the strongest at RVV that year. Unbelievable how many people thought he would not be among the best in this race even this week.

That being said, as long as MvdP is around it will be really really tough for him to win this race. Dropping someone like him on the cobbles will be almost impossible and the way PR is being raced recently it will be very hard to sneak away like people like Sagan did. Still the guy just finished 5 consecutive monuments on the podium and won the WCRR in the process. This would have been utterly unthinkable just a few years ago.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yeah I remember arguing after that 2022 cobbles stage in the Tour that he would be one of the favorites at PR and there were a lot of people feeling very smart explaining to me why a TdF stage is not comparable to the real deal at all. That was after he had already been one of the strongest at RVV that year. Unbelievable how many people thought he would not be among the best in this race even this week.

That being said, as long as MvdP is around it will be really really tough for him to win this race. Dropping someone like him on the cobbles will be almost impossible and the way PR is being raced recently it will be very hard to sneak away like people like Sagan did. Still the guy just finished 5 consecutive monuments on the podium and won the WCRR in the process. This would have been utterly unthinkable just a few years ago.

Someday he will have bad luck in PR. Almost all competition got hampered by mechanicals or crashes.

 

[JoãoRamos]

Yeah I remember arguing after that 2022 cobbles stage in the Tour that he would be one of the favorites at PR and there were a lot of people feeling very smart explaining to me why a TdF stage means nothing for PR at all. That was after he had already been one of the strongest at RVV that year. Unbelievable how many people thought he would not be among the best in this race even this week.

That being said, as long as MvdP is around it will be really really tough for him to win this race. Dropping someone like him on the cobbles will be almost impossible and the way PR is being raced recently it will be very hard to sneak away like people like Sagan did. Still the guy just finished 5 consecutive monuments on the podium and won the WCRR in the process. This would have been utterly unthinkable just a few years ago.

I think if he is so invincible, why did he need to get illegal feeding to avoid bonking?

 

[James M]

In fact time doesnt exist and we are all in a useless bubble.

Haha that is another conversation for another time my man —preferably over a beer, which would make it even better.

 

[Lui98]

VDP clearly broke the rules with illegal feeding in the final 14km — and both he and his team director were hit with heavy fines. This wasn’t a grey area or a misunderstanding. It was a conscious decision to cheat, hoping the consequences wouldn’t be severe.

The truth is, without that illegal feeding, VDP might not have finished the race the way he did. It gave him an unfair advantage, plain and simple. They gambled by breaking the rules — now they should face the full penalty: disqualification.

I know Pogacar is a true sportsman and doesn’t want to win like this. But this is about more than one rider or one race. It’s about the credibility of cycling. If rules aren’t enforced properly, it sets a dangerous precedent.

UAE should appeal. Not for the win, but for the integrity of the sport.

C' mon, man 😂.

 

[scribers]

MVP having a car and bike change that close to him played into the fortunes of this race and the little things that make a difference enough to win

 

[Gigs_98]

Someday he will have bad luck in PR. Almost all competition got hampered by mechanicals or crashes.

He had a mechanical today but still won comfortably. We usually just forget when it happens to the evenutal winner. Don't get me wrong, in another year Pogacar might be with him in that moment and manage to get the win, but you can't rely on that. I think the somewhat easy path to victory for Pogi is rather MvdP not racing as long as he does, though of course those things are also often harder to predict than just looking at age.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think if he is so invincible, why did he need to get illegal feeding to avoid bonking?

I don't even remember that but please. Pogi was bonking harder than him

 

[Blobs]

I think if he is so invincible, why did he need to get illegal feeding to avoid bonking?

Pogacar also got that earlier in the race. Mads is the rightful winner

 

[Peyroteo94]

He had a mechanical today but still won comfortably. We usually just forget when it happens to the evenutal winner. Don't get me wrong, in another year Pogacar might be with him in that moment and manage to get the win, but you can't rely on that. I think the somewhat easy path to victory for Pogi is rather MvdP not racing as long as he does, though of course those things are also often harder to predict than just looking at age.

Very different. Put that mechanical in Aremberg and his race is over. His mechanical made him lose 10 seconds, it looked like a F1 pitstop. Pogacar lost 25 seconds in his bike change. You can't compare IMHO.

 

[jono]

The craziest part of the race for me was Pogacar risking crashing every 2 seconds by weaving on and off the pavement strip on the late sector with the black and yellow barriers, just to avoid riding those relatively mild cobbles. Did anyone comment on that yet? Was he really that wrecked at that point?

 

[Bavarianrider]

Greatest Cyclist ofall Time, this isnt even a debate anymore.

 

[JoãoRamos]

I don't even remember that but please. Pogi was bonking harder than him

But he didn't cheat in the last part of the race.

This is illegal.

 

[JoãoRamos]

Pogacar also got that earlier in the race. Mads is the rightful winner

No, you are wrong.

Illegal feeding because isn't allowed in the last part of the race.

That's why they got a heavy fine.

They got caught.

 

[scribers]

The craziest part of the race for me was Pogacar risking crashing every 2 seconds by weaving on and off the pavement strip on the late sector with the black and yellow barriers, just to avoid riding those relatively mild cobbles. Did anyone comment on that yet? Was he really that wrecked at that point?

They also showed blood on his wrist. I wondered in the race thread if he had a more serious injury. As up until then he was not attempting to avoid cobbles so much