Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[bNator]

OMFG

Good point!

Look no matter what kind of mental excersises you are trying to pull now - it’s a fact that you were comparing two efforts where one was 30% longer and had almost 50% more elevaton gain and some posters prostested that is a bit far reaching comparison, no matter the circumstances. Whether you call that claim, deduction, wondering, gibbering - you did try to compare apples and oranges and you shouldn’t get all insulted now…

 

[Extinction]

Good point!

Look no matter what kind of mental excersises you are trying to pull now - it’s a fact that you were comparing two efforts where one was 30% longer and had almost 50% more elevaton gain and some posters prostested that is a bit far reaching comparison, no matter the circumstances. Whether you call that claim, deduction, wondering, gibbering - you did try to compare apples and oranges and you shouldn’t get all insulted now…

Why "good point" or am I missing something? Because basically I agree with what you wrote after.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It's not me that's trying to pull mental exercises, it's all there for everyone to read. Don't bother responding because i won't be reading it anymore.

 

[Extinction]

It's not me that's trying to pull mental exercises, it's all there for everyone to read. Don't bother responding because i won't be reading it anymore.

That's your problem. You display an ignorance that frankly only one who has not ridden at a certain level and has gone full block under presure otherwise knows. Kisses

 

[bNator]

Why "good point" or am I missing something? Because basically I agree with what you wrote after.

Yeah - that was just my poor attempt at sarcasm

 

[memyselfandI]

Yup, the mainroad climb up to the Rates is well known smallish test climb in the Denia/Calpe area. And this so called Super Rates is non common climb, dead end road that turns from a top of mainroad climb, more sightseeing visit spot.

I think Eli Iserbyt once did good time up there, but typically pros don't rip that road but the mainroad as they go by with some long ride.

Last time I got up there to turn to gravel, for example, Stefan Küng just came up with tt bike setting very hard tempo, small group of team compatriots fifty meters behind chasing. Small break atop of the climb and off they go.

Pogi's time just shows high basic level.

 

[Lequack]

I thought it was easiest just to compare VAM numbers, vertical ascent meters per hour. According to Strava he and Ayuso had VAM of ~1550 for 25 minutes. So we can just compare that to some performances form the Tour, Vuelta etc. for a similar length climb.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1480315972556926987

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1480315972556926987

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I thought it was easiest just to compare VAM numbers, vertical ascent meters per hour. According to Strava he and Ayuso had VAM of ~1550 for 25 minutes. So we can just compare that to some performances form the Tour, Vuelta etc. for a similar length climb.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1480315972556926987

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1480315972556926987

The thing is that VAM is only comparable for ascents of similar avg. gradient. On shallower climbs (i.e. 6-7%) a larger fraction of cyclists' power is used for horizontal component of movement (and less for vertical) and thus less impressive VAM values.

 

[bNator]

The thing is that VAM is only comparable for ascents of similar avg. gradient. On shallower climbs (i.e. 6-7%) a larger fraction of cyclists' power is used for horizontal component of movement (and less for vertical) and thus less impressive VAM values.

It would be interesting to know what is the optimal gradient for achieveing the maximum VAM. At a certain gradient, the instability of a bike due to low speed, ineffective cadence etc. prevail over the wind&rolling resistance. Probably it's not so much an optimal gradient but optimal speed a cyclist can develop on a certain gradient. The optimal gradient for a rider is that where he develops 10km/h speed, for instance... That means that Pogačar (being fat and all) will achieve his personal maximum VAM at lower slopes than Ayuso

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It would be interesting to know what is the optimal gradient for achieveing the maximum VAM. At a certain gradient, the instability of a bike due to low speed, ineffective cadence etc. prevail over the wind&rolling resistance. Probably it's not so much an optimal gradient but optimal speed a cyclist can develop on a certain gradient. The optimal gradient for a rider is that where he develops 10km/h speed, for instance... That means that Pogačar (being fat and all) will achieve his personal maximum VAM at lower slopes than Ayuso

Yeah, generally very steep gradients are the best for VAM maximization unless it becomes too uncomfortable for a rider (i.e. too much muscle force required from a rider - not enough gears, lack of balance at low speeds, etc). I would say 10-15% is the best range. As for VAM equivalent, according to some formulas for every 1% of gradient increase VAM should increase by 3-4% (given a constant w/kg).

BTW when I trek in the mountains I would say a constant grade of 30-50% is the best for me in terms of VAM achieved (if a path is technically easy ofc).

 

[Red Rick]

So much talk about the W/kg of a chill training ride.

 

[hayneplane]

So much talk about the W/kg of a chill training ride.

You can we are still in the off-season bar some random criterium type races in Australia and New Zealand

 

[CyclistAbi]

Next time just swap Ayuso with Evenpoel and the data will be legit.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Next time just swap Ayuso with Evenpoel and the data will be legit.

lol at the amount of butthurt in this thread because not every effort of Pogi is automatically seen as a biblical miracle.

Here was my comment on Evenepoel's Strava record of the same day (i think).

Anyway, it seems Benoot and Arensman 's times weren't that far off of what Evenepoel and Van Wilder did, so maybe those are simply "very good training numbers" but nothing more?

 

[CyclistAbi]

As a Rogla fan the amount of that from Pogi was already biblical on my side.

 

[bNator]

lol at the amount of butthurt in this thread because not every effort of Pogi is automatically seen as a biblical miracle.

Here was my comment on Evenepoel's Strava record of the same day (i think).

Noone is butthurt here - it’s just that you were making silly comparisons and “hinted” conclusions based on these comparisons. I know it is hard to believe but many posters here will defend common sense irrespective of the rider it applies to…

I’m certainly no fan of Pogacar and apparently his ride was nothing special… my comments have nothing to do with Pogacar but with your reasoning when discussing the topic.

 

[Lequack]

Majka and Pogacar doing some... ritual.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

I mean, Majka will be with Pogi a lot this year, so good to get a headstart..

 

[Extinction]

Strava said he set a record, thus folks naturally take notice. Everything else is social media drivel.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogi is clearly out of form: grasping for air while veteran Majka is at ease with the climb.
As for the record he set another day: Ayuso must have been pushing him for most of the climb.

 

[Wvv]

Tadej is probably gonna ride Dwars door Vlaanderen too, as preparation for the Ronde van Vlaanderen and the cobbles in the upcoming Tour de France.
Source: Het Nieuwsblad.

 

[Salvarani]

Tadej is probably gonna ride Dwars door Vlaanderen too, as preparation for the Ronde van Vlaanderen and the cobbles in the upcoming Tour de France.
Source: Het Nieuwsblad.

The crazy part is if he finishes 6th or something in Dwars the hype would be real for Ronde.

Nobody would be surprised, because what cant he do.

 

[RedheadDane]

Nobody would be surprised, because what cant he do.

Keep all his hair inside his helmet!
Unless he wears an aero helmet.

 

[KZD]

I am curious to see how Pogačar will manage his shape throughout the early season. He will need to be in good shape for the UAE tour but not at his best and then it will be interesting if he peaks for Milan San Remo, Ronde or Liège, although he will surely be strong for the latter.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I am curious to see how Pogačar will manage his shape throughout the early season. He will need to be in good shape for the UAE tour but not at his best and then it will be interesting if he peaks for Milan San Remo, Ronde or Liège, although he will surely be strong for the latter.

I wonder if this is the best option if he's also going to ride Vuelta this year. Last season we saw he was subpar at the Euro's and a few races after that. He can't be 100% all year. I hope they're not going to spread him too thin.