Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Saint Paul de Vence]

This one is PageRank for Top 100 one day races since 01/01/2024:

POGAČAR Tadej	1016​
VAN DER POEL Mathieu	912​
EVENEPOEL Remco	830​
PEDERSEN Mads	675​
KOOIJ Olav	669​
GANNA Filippo	651​
PHILIPSEN Jasper	642​
VAN AERT Wout	621​
MILAN Jonathan	587​
MERLIER Tim	564​
LAPORTE Christophe	564​
PIDCOCK Thomas	508​
WÆRENSKJOLD Søren	489​
MATTHEWS Michael	472​
SKJELMOSE Mattias	466​
VANGILS Maxim	466​
STUYVEN Jasper	465​
POLITT Nils	452​
NYS Thibau	450​
AYUSO Juan	441​

You have again three riders far ahead of the rest. But this time no legendary dominance for Tadej. Only the epic dominance for him in one day races.

 

[Shortcut]

This one is PageRank for Top 100 one day races since 01/01/2024:

POGAČAR Tadej	1016​
VAN DER POEL Mathieu	912​
EVENEPOEL Remco	830​
PEDERSEN Mads	675​
KOOIJ Olav	669​
GANNA Filippo	651​
PHILIPSEN Jasper	642​
VAN AERT Wout	621​
MILAN Jonathan	587​
MERLIER Tim	564​
LAPORTE Christophe	564​
PIDCOCK Thomas	508​
WÆRENSKJOLD Søren	489​
MATTHEWS Michael	472​
SKJELMOSE Mattias	466​
VANGILS Maxim	466​
STUYVEN Jasper	465​
POLITT Nils	452​
NYS Thibau	450​
AYUSO Juan	441​

You have again three riders far ahead of the rest. But this time no legendary dominance for Tadej. Only the epic dominance for him in one day races.

Did I miss something because how can Remco be so close on 3rd place, since 1.1. 2024 he won only OG RR and Brabantse Pijl, or did i miss somenthing? Pogi won in that time, 2x Strade, 2 x LBL, 1 RVV, 1 GdL, 1 WC, 1 FW, 1 Montreal, 1 Emilia.

 

[AmRacer]

Did I miss something because how can Remco be so close on 3rd place, since 1.1. 2024 he won only OG RR and Brabantse Pijl, or did i miss somenthing? Pogi won in that time, 2x Strade, 2 x LBL, 1 RVV, 1 GdL, 1 WC, 1 FW, 1 Montreal, 1 Emilia.

Not only wins counts.

 

[Shortcut]

Not only wins counts.

Again doesn't make sense, Remco: 3rd Amstel, 9 FW, 6th at WC, 2 GdL and that is it vs. Pogi 2 X3rd MsR, 2nd P-R and Amstel, 7th Quebec.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Maybe that's the reason, you know?
Sprint stages are boring per se, so people are looking towards the GC stages to provide some excitement and battle between a few riders and/or teams. Sometimes even double battle - once in the break, once in the main group.

And when the same rider from the same team "steals" that excitement, making it predictable and boring (a lot of), people are unhappy and rightfully complain about boredom.

Don't you think a battle between breakaway riders would be better than a bunch sprint between sprinters? And this scenario happens 6-7 times in the Tour.

 

[Peyroteo94]

View: https://youtu.be/gby-f9vYeqU?si=MKGV8H4sfq0wJsDf

 

[Netserk]

Don't you think a battle between breakaway riders would be better than a bunch sprint between sprinters? And this scenario happens 6-7 times in the Tour.

I also think 400 km stages would be better, but I don't complain (much) about their absence. Value is on the margin, and breakaways winning flat stages in the first week is no longer near the margin of the current equilibrium of race dynamics. The time to complain about that was when it was so. And people did complain then.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

The frustration of Tadej’s rivals is turning into anger, and the conversations are starting to resemble Facebook comment sections—even though we’re talking about former professionals.

Again, casting accusations against people who are not simply proclaiming Pogacar. Please provide three pieces of evidence of Pogacar's rivals displaying anger in the media.

Or will this challenge to sustain an accusation also be met with silence, as others were yesterday?

 

[Salvarani]

The frustration of Tadej’s rivals is turning into anger, and the conversations are starting to resemble Facebook comment sections—even though we’re talking about former professionals. Every race Tadej has ridden this year has been extremely exciting and watchable, with the exception of the UAE Tour (and even there, he tried to spice up the sprint stages in the middle of the desert) and Liège-Bastogne-Liège, where apparently someone thought Chicone (?) might beat him or something. FW is the same every year, Strade was interesting, and RVV, MSR, Paris-Roubaix, and Amstel were all incredibly entertaining. All thanks to Pogacar, who always announces his race calendar first and dares to race on “foreign terrain.” But then LBL happens (which, objectively, was dull due to Remco’s weakness rather than Tadej’s dominance), and suddenly everyone forgets the five fantastic races before that. No one mentions E3 or Gent-Wevelgem, where MvdP and Mads attacked even earlier than Pogacar did at LBL—because Pogacar wasn’t involved.

You are so right about that, they should just have more class and respect in general.

Every race has been very exciting and great performances to watch. Real cyclicissimo is what the people want! Thats why Pog brings in all the spectators going bananas, which is awesome to see along the roads, and viewership is only going up. Everyone wants to see the GOAT!

 

[YavorD]

Don't you think a battle between breakaway riders would be better than a bunch sprint between sprinters? And this scenario happens 6-7 times in the Tour.

I can possibly count on my fingers all the people who claim that sprinters stages are interesting (with a few notable exceptions). This is not about sprint stages, they are sometimes necessary evil sometimes.

It's about mountain stagea being boring and predictable when/if the same rider from the same team dominates and wins every last one, on top of the already boring sprint stages.

 

[Peyroteo94]

What source was NVH giving to lack of viewership in the Giro 2024?

 

[Peyroteo94]

I can possibly count on my fingers all the people who claim that sprinters stages are interesting (with a few notable exceptions). This is not about sprint stages, they are sometimes necessary evil sometimes.

It's about mountain stagea being boring and predictable when/if the same rider from the same team dominates and wins every last one, on top of the already boring sprint stages.

The point is: a breakaway winning a flat stage is more exciting and an unexpected winner is more common that a bunch sprint between sprinters but no one was complaining about HTC being so dominant in sprint stages and didn't let anyone wins oustide of them (when Cav dominated the field).

 

[AmRacer]

I can possibly count on my fingers all the people who claim that sprinters stages are interesting (with a few notable exceptions). This is not about sprint stages, they are sometimes necessary evil sometimes.

It's about mountain stagea being boring and predictable when/if the same rider from the same team dominates and wins every last one, on top of the already boring sprint stages.

So cycling is boring

 

[Netserk]

no one was complaining about HTC being so dominant in sprint stages

Obviously false.

 

[Salvarani]

What source was NVH giving to lack of viewership in the Giro 2024?

Trust me bro

 

[Salvarani]

So cycling is boring

I could answer this, but I wont.

 

[Salvarani]

The point is: a breakaway winning a flat stage is more exciting and an unexpected winner is more common that a bunch sprint between sprinters but no one was complaining about HTC being so dominant in sprint stages and didn't let anyone wins oustide of them (when Cav dominated the field).

Correct observation. And multiple teams or riders have always dominated in one way or another. It goes in cycles. We belong to the GOAT-era for now.

 

[YavorD]

So cycling is boring

Yes.
As is every sport when the same rider/driver/player/team destroys everyone.

 

[snipeheem]

Yes.
As is every sport when the same rider/driver/player/team destroys everyone.

Cycling is boring without Pogacar.

 

[YavorD]

Cycling is boring without Pogacar.

No it's not. Many races are funnier without Pogacar. Tour of the Alps was extremely entertaining race. I don't think many people would disagree on that.

And just to clarify, because people in this thread don't seem to get it.
Nobody is hating on Pogacar or something. People are just looking at the battle for the win as most important value. And when there's no battle but the same rider wins that's predictable. Predictability is generally considered boring.

And again its not because of Pogacar. The Giro would be as boring if Vingegaard came and won 6 stages and the GC with 10 minutes. LBL would be as boring if Remco just attacked on Redoute and won by 90 seconds (yes, LBL 2023 was boring).
Itzulia 2023 was boring because of the above mentioned reason.
Oh, and Paris-Roubaix 2024 wasn't fun either.

 

[Salvarani]

Cycling is boring without Pogacar.

Absolutely.

 

[scribers]

I enjoy the cycling with or without pogi. But pogi completely reshapes races. Even a 100km solo turns into a mind boggling nail biter with a full opera of emotions and humanity unfolding

 

[Shortcut]

Again, casting accusations against people who are not simply proclaiming Pogacar. Please provide three pieces of evidence of Pogacar's rivals displaying anger in the media.

Or will this challenge to sustain an accusation also be met with silence, as others were yesterday?

A literal example from NvH is his claim that the viewership has dropped in the last week of the Giro due to Pogacar’s large lead. This is his subjective opinion, not an objective one (as actual data shows otherwise). The 2023 Giro was very tightly contested, yet it was incredibly boring, and the metrics actually show 0.8% lower viewership than the 2024 Giro.-source.https://www.globaldata.com/media/sport/giro-ditalia-2024-generates-48-million-sponsorship-revenue-reveals-globaldata/?utm_source).That may seem like a small number, but for such a niche sport like cycling, it’s significant. Last year, before Pogacar’s participation, there was huge hype in Italy, and even this year, despite the fact that he isn’t Italian, many Italians are disappointed he’s not racing. If we only looked at the time gaps going into the final week, the 2023 Tour would have been much more boring than the 2024 TdF, since Jonas had a 7-minute lead before the final five stages in 2023. Last year, people still thought Jonas could do something in the last three stages because Pogacar’s lead wasn’t yet insurmountable by that point-and i hear nobody saying Jonas victory TdF 2023 was boring.

 

[scribers]

I would think a paid cycling analyst just making stuff up might draw some ire, naturally.

 

[Shortcut]

No it's not. Many races are funnier without Pogacar. Tour of the Alps was extremely entertaining race. I don't think many people would disagree on that.

And just to clarify, because people in this thread don't seem to get it.
Nobody is hating on Pogacar or something. People are just looking at the battle for the win as most important value. And when there's no battle but the same rider wins that's predictable. Predictability is generally considered boring.

And again its not because of Pogacar. The Giro would be as boring if Vingegaard came and won 6 stages and the GC with 10 minutes. LBL would be as boring if Remco just attacked on Redoute and won by 90 seconds (yes, LBL 2023 was boring).
Itzulia 2023 was boring because of the above mentioned reason.
Oh, and Paris-Roubaix 2024 wasn't fun either.

I get what you are saying but lets me ask, without Pogacar how entertaining would MSR, RVV, P-R and Amstel be this year without Pogacar? Maybe they would be great, but we have seen one big race (E3) this year where MvDP raced without Pogacar and it ended with MvDP 50km solo attack. Without Pogacar going to those races it would be pretty boring and he saved whole spring season with his participations.