Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[James M]

But why was wiewership best ever last year at Giro and why was pretty mediocre one year before (even though was extremly close til last stage)?

You shouldn’t say that. There are people out here telling themselves Pogacar is ruining cycling in order to cope, while in reality, he is saving it and significantly boosting ratings whenever he races now. Don’t ruin their bubble like that.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

You shouldn’t say that. There are people out here telling themselves Pogacar is ruining cycling in order to cope, while in reality, he is saving it and significantly boosting ratings whenever he races now. Don’t ruin their bubble like that.

Who are these people?

 

[Tim Cahill]

But why was wiewership best ever last year at Giro and why was pretty mediocre one year before (even though was extremly close til last stage)?

Does anyone actually have a detailed breakdown of the Giro viewership? Not disputing the claim but I looked a while ago and was unable to find a reliable one, just some chatgpt nonsense. I've seen Bruyneel claiming it was down but it just felt like he was going off vibes.

I know the Tour is down quite a bit in the past few years but that has to do with paywalls and lack of access.

 

[Cookster15]

I could be wrong but I got the sense a lot of people were hoping Pogi could be the first to win the Giro-Tour double since Pantani? Maybe opinions changed when he could also win many one day races and start to be compared to Merckx?

But other sports don’t die when one player or team is dominant. Tennis stands out. And dominance is never permanent.

 

[James M]

Who are these people?

Good question indeed, but without paying too much attention to it, you can see several in each race thread he participates in for instance. Not that there is anything wrong with it per se—my guess is that it's some sort of defense mechanism, and at this point, what else can they say? So I get it. Just funny when, in reality, it's the opposite.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

But why was wiewership best ever last year at Giro and why was pretty mediocre one year before (even though was extremly close til last stage)?

As I said: "By all means question whether it is misguided concern": maybe van Hooydonck was ill-informed, or just guessing, in his comments about viewing figures. I've not seen the original context of these comments: does anyone know it? I'm guessing it was not a considered article written as the fruits of research, and more likely an off the cuff comment when asked something along the lines of "Will the Giro be worse off without Pogacar this year?"

As somebody who works with a broadcaster, he is going to talk up the next-thing-to-be-promoted, so that is, I will suggest, an appropriate, PR response.


And I'm still waiting for someone to state what disrespect there was to Pogacar in anything he said.

 

[Salvarani]

I could be wrong but I got the sense a lot of people were hoping Pogi could be the first to win the Giro-Tour double since Pantani? Maybe opinions changed when he could also win many one day races and start to be compared to Merckx?

But other sports don’t die when one player or team is dominant. Tennis stands out. And dominance is never permanent.

You are not wrong.

And the support he has on the roads and people tuning in to watch him race is enough to see the great impact he has had. The GOAT.

 

[Peyroteo94]

But why was wiewership best ever last year at Giro and why was pretty mediocre one year before (even though was extremly close til last stage)?

Giro 2023 was worse than Giro 2024.

 

[foxbat]

OK, I did qualify it with "as far as I know", but if people wish to disregard the first part of my reply, that's fine.

But the other points remain: he said nothing derogatory about Pogacar, and he is right that many people will be more likely to watch races in which the result is finely balanced for longer. Nobody has provided a counter-argument, but several are acting as though the comments were reprehensible by virtue of the accusations having been made.

he's not correct at all. viewership in ANY race pogacar is not in attendance will automatically be lower. on a personal basis, i certainly hardly watch any races pogacar is not competing in, as do almost everyone in my cycling group. pogacar is the person responsible for any increases in viewership, despite what NVH thinks. perhaps he's lowkey upset that the viewership is lower for races that his soulmate buddy JV is competing in. this year's giro with no pogacar will likely have a significantly lower watch rate than 2024. hardly any of my family in italy even knew it was starting this week, or were interested as they were last year.

 

[Shortcut]

he's not correct at all. viewership in ANY race pogacar is not in attendance will automatically be lower. on a personal basis, i certainly hardly watch any races pogacar is not competing in, as do almost everyone in my cycling group. pogacar is the person responsible for any increases in viewership, despite what NVH thinks. perhaps he's lowkey upset that the viewership is lower for races that his soulmate buddy JV is competing in. this year's giro with no pogacar will likely have a significantly lower watch rate than 2024. hardly any of my family in italy even knew it was starting this week, or were interested as they were last year.

The frustration of Tadej’s rivals is turning into anger, and the conversations are starting to resemble Facebook comment sections—even though we’re talking about former professionals. Every race Tadej has ridden this year has been extremely exciting and watchable, with the exception of the UAE Tour (and even there, he tried to spice up the sprint stages in the middle of the desert) and Liège-Bastogne-Liège, where apparently someone thought Chicone (?) might beat him or something. FW is the same every year, Strade was interesting, and RVV, MSR, Paris-Roubaix, and Amstel were all incredibly entertaining. All thanks to Pogacar, who always announces his race calendar first and dares to race on “foreign terrain.” But then LBL happens (which, objectively, was dull due to Remco’s weakness rather than Tadej’s dominance), and suddenly everyone forgets the five fantastic races before that. No one mentions E3 or Gent-Wevelgem, where MvdP and Mads attacked even earlier than Pogacar did at LBL—because Pogacar wasn’t involved.

 

[James M]

I could be wrong but I got the sense a lot of people were hoping Pogi could be the first to win the Giro-Tour double since Pantani? Maybe opinions changed when he could also win many one day races and start to be compared to Merckx?

But other sports don’t die when one player or team is dominant. Tennis stands out. And dominance is never permanent.

And with dominance, you also attract the opposite. I would even say that in cycling, with Pog it’s less pronounced, with Pogacar being some sort of boy wonder in general. Considering how much he actually dominates, it would be natural for him to face way more scrutiny by opposing fans and in general etc than he actually gets imo.

The majority accept him without question, by most fans he eats that cake too, in Italy they worship him, of course, there are always those with differing feelings to dominance in general, but in my opinion, it's far less than normal, given how much he actually takes and dominates.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Views in the Tour with Lance were really bad... people want to see the best rider.

 

[Peyroteo94]

For some reason Giro paid a lot to have Pogacar there. Were they really paying a lot to have Roglic this year? I don't think so.

 

[scribers]

For some reason Giro paid a lot to have Pogacar there. Were they really paying a lot to have Roglic this year? I don't think so.

Probably something

 

[Peyroteo94]

One thing I am very curious in this Giro is seeing how UAE will behave without Pogacar. There is a strong fight there to be the best after Pogacar.
Del Toro is doing TT training for the Giro so let's see what will be his role (I'm not so sure he will be just a domestique) in the race.

 

[hayneplane]

Giro 2023 was worse than Giro 2024.

Weather was miserable and almost nothing happened for more than 10 days between Remco withdrawing after winning the TT at the end of week 1 and the TT on the penultimate day.

Yes it stayed close but only because the race remained in suspended animation and barely any meaningful attacks occurred.

 

[hayneplane]

One thing I am very curious in this Giro is seeing how UAE will behave without Pogacar. There is a strong fight there to be the best after Pogacar.
Del Toro is doing TT training for the Giro so let's see what will be his role (I'm not so sure he will be just a domestique) in the race.

I just hope he doesn’t lose any silly time early on that sees him fall into being a super domestique as I think he has the highest ceiling of all the UAE Giro roster.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Probably something

I don't disagree but a lot? Hum...

 

[Peyroteo94]

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[Peyroteo94]

Weather was miserable and almost nothing happened for more than 10 days between Remco withdrawing after winning the TT at the end of week 1 and the TT on the penultimate day.

Yes it stayed close but only because the race remained in suspended animation and barely any meaningful attacks occurred.

Thomas and Roglic are not really agressive riders

 

[scribers]

I don't disagree but a lot? Hum...

The more they need him the more they pay. Not as much as pogi for sure. But they needed him to shape the race and make it more interesting

 

[Extinction]

"Every stage Pogacar wanted to win, his team would take control of the peloton, and he’d go on to win it," continues Van Hooydonck's recollection of the 2024 Giro d'Italia. "And sometimes he’d even win a stage by accident, overtaking another rider in the final kilometre."

Yet when the sprint teams want to win every stage, it's normal. They don't let a strong break form and control the race.

Because sprint stages don't effect GC and so, in the economy of a three week race, the teams with potentially winning sprinters must be "greedy." And such stages are less of an audience draw, so it doesn't take much out of the till when one sprinter dominates, but actually adds to the introites. By contrast, if every GC stage goes to one rider beyond the necessary that team has its hands in the till too much and folks will start to lose interest in the final outcome, which is a foregone conclusion. In a sport where nothing happens of significance for most of the race, killing the suspence is not good business.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Because sprint stages don't effect GC and so, in the economy of a three week race, the teams with potentially winning sprinters must be "greedy." And such stages are less of an audience draw, so it doesn't take much out of the till when one sprinter dominates, but actually adds to the introites. By contrast, if every GC stage goes to one rider beyond the necessary that team has its hands in the till too much and folks will start to lose interest in the final outcome, which is a foregone conclusion. In a sport where nothing happens of significance for most of the race, killing the suspence is not good business.

What? Sprint stages with a break fighting for the stage would be way more exciting and woulf bring more audience for sure. So it's really the opposite. Less people sees flat stages because they are boring until the last 5 km.

 

[YavorD]

What? Sprint stages with a break fighting for the stage would be way more exciting and woulf bring more audience for sure. So it's really the opposite. Less people sees flat stages because they are boring until the last 5 km.

Maybe that's the reason, you know?
Sprint stages are boring per se, so people are looking towards the GC stages to provide some excitement and battle between a few riders and/or teams. Sometimes even double battle - once in the break, once in the main group.

And when the same rider from the same team "steals" that excitement, making it predictable and boring (a lot of), people are unhappy and rightfully complain about boredom.

 

[Saint Paul de Vence]

Just looked at the PageRank/ELO scores for mountain stages since 01/01/2024:

POGAČAR Tadej	1438​
VINGEGAARD Jonas	1010​
ROGLIČ Primož	929​
EVENEPOEL Remco	795​
AYUSO Juan	773​
JORGENSON Matteo	755​
ALMEIDA João	733​
SKJELMOSE Mattias	712​
MARTÍNEZ Daniel Felipe	649​
LANDA Mikel	648​
CICCONE Giulio	643​
MARTINEZ Lenny	626​
MAS Enric	621​
VANEETVELT Lennert	620​
YATES Adam	620​
BUITRAGO Santiago	584​
LIPOWITZ Florian	574​
RODRÍGUEZ Carlos	573​
VLASOV Aleksandr	554​
BERNAL Egan	539​

Pogacar is very far ahead of Roglic and Ving. The rest is much more compact. Remco is not that special. He is in the "best of the rest" tier close to Ayuso.