Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Rou]

Today was the second most irritating and annoying day for me so far this season. Number 1 is San Remo.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Today was the second most irritating and annoying day for me so far this season. Number 1 is San Remo.

I think this will give Pogacar extra motivation.

 

[Cycling111]

Visma has won GT in three years with four different riders.

UAE only with Pogacar.
But they'll keep taking away Pogacar's merits, and when he wins, they talk about clinic.
Simon won the Giro, Adam didn't even have a chance of a podium finish.

UAE is a team far inferior to Visma in GT. Pogacar deserves a lot of credit for winning with these useless directors and team.
His Tour are worth twice as much as Merckx's for that reason

 

[Brullnux]

Pogacar can be stronger and more dominant in Redbull or Visma. Change my mind.

Redbull?!

 

[CatchyH]

What happened to the team today was pretty embarassing, no doubt. What's important however is acknowledging their mistakes and making sure they avoid making them in the Tour. Visma didn't win this race, UAE gifted them the win. The team seems to perform better under Pogačar's leadership and i'm expecting the Tour to be more of a w/kg race rather than a tactical one anyway.

 

[rafa92]

Yates was simply stronger today, team strategy has helped him but even in a one vs one on the final climb yates would have either mantained his lead (which on top on finestre was enough to win the giro) or even increased it. Stop with this nonsense exaggerating the role of the team

 

[Peyroteo94]

What happened to the team today was pretty embarassing, no doubt. What's important however is acknowledging their mistakes and making sure they avoid making them in the Tour. Visma didn't win this race, UAE gifted them the win. The team seems to perform better under Pogačar's leadership and i'm expecting the Tour to be more of a w/kg race rather than a tactical one anyway.

The team doesn't perform better with Pogacar. There is a difference to race with Pogacar and without Pogacar. When they race with Pogacar, they don't need to think. They just need to look to their computers and ride full gas. But when Pogacar isn't racing, they need to have tactical awareness, but they are clueless.

 

[rafa92]

The team doesn't perform better with Pogacar. There is a difference to race with Pogacar and without Pogacar. When they race with Pogacar, they don't need to think. They just need to look to their computers and ride full gas. But when Pogacar isn't racing, they need to have tactical awareness, but they are clueless.

exactly, today doesn't mean anything for how teams will perform in the tour. Everything will depend on pogacar, if he's stronger he'll win

 

[Cycling111]

Majka looked really angry with McNulty who has made the top 10 in an embarrassing way without helping his team.

For Pogacar, it will be important to lead a team that wants to die for him in the Tour.

 

[CatchyH]

The team doesn't perform better with Pogacar. There is a difference to race with Pogacar and without Pogacar. When they race with Pogacar, they don't need to think. They just need to look to their computers and ride full gas. But when Pogacar isn't racing, they need to have tactical awareness, but they are clueless.

I don't disagree with you, you misunderstood me. Might be my fault though, English is not my 1st language.

 

[Rou]

The thing is that Simon today did a performance miles ahead of anything that Almeida and Yates have done this year.
Visma have better tactics, stronger climbers and an ace card called van Aert. He can get in any breakaway and ruin UAE.

 

[Cycling111]

For me, Visma is a far superior team for a GT.
I don't remember a UAE domestique doing a decisive job in a GT like Van Aert today or Roglic did on the Granon day, or Van Aert on the cobbles day at the Tour.

I think they want to establish the narrative that Pogacar wins because of the team.

Vuelta 2019 alone.
Tour 2020 alone. Jumbo was a far superior team to the UAE.
In 2021, Pogacar had good team, but without being a monstrosity. He won that tour with a long-distance solo attack, he didn't need them.

In 2022 and 2023, Visma were far superior team. Remember 4 Jumvo vs Pogacar in Galibier in 2022 or in Tourmalet in 2023

In 2024, UAE was the better team in the Tour, but Pogacar still won without having to be saved by Wout on the cobbles or perform a Granon with a second leader. He was so superior that once again the team wasn´t a factor

Visma as a team has been much more important in winning the TDF than the UAE has been for Pogacar.

And other riders. Kuss won la Vuelta, Roglic won Giro 2023 becaus Kuss saved him two stages, Van Aert saved Vingegaard in Tour 2022 in cobbles stage, today with Simon.... GT with 4 riders differentes like Sky. UAE one rider.

We could say the same in the classics.

Pogacar was completely alone in Roubaix against two Alpecins, and due to crashes, he practically won alone in De Ronde.

What the UAE does is win many minor races or races that Visma doesn't give as much importance to, with other riders. But I still don't remember a important race that Pogacar won thanks to the team.

For me, Visma is the best team for a GT. It's not just about the physicality. In the end, Pogacar won or lost alone.
And this year, I'm not even sure that UAE domestiques are physically better.

Simon is far superior to Adam this year.
Sivakov has struggled in the mountains.

I´d only put Almeida better than other Visma riders.

If Visma gets Kuss back, they'd have a better team. We already saw what Jorgenson was capable of at Paris-Nice.

 

[Red Rick]

Unless you want to say Adam and Simon Yates are a literal twin experiment, there's nothing to read into this in regards of Pogacar vs Vingegaard.

 

[Rou]

Unless you want to say Adam and Simon Yates are a literal twin experiment, there's nothing to read into this in regards of Pogacar vs Vingegaard.

When the margin between the top two is so small all the little details matter.

 

[Jan the Man]

Unless you want to say Adam and Simon Yates are a literal twin experiment, there's nothing to read into this in regards of Pogacar vs Vingegaard.

Agreed. Ultimately everyone knows that Pog and Vignegaard are a considerable step ahead of anybody else. When they go it will be mano a mano.

 

[Rou]

Agreed. Ultimately everyone knows that Pog and Vignegaard are a considerable step ahead of anybody else. When they go it will be mano a mano.

But they can't just go mano a mano. Jonas and Pogacar need a strong team to set up an attack. There is a huge difference with Marc Soler setting you up for an attack and peak Sepp Kuss doing that.

 

[Monsi]

But they can't just go mano a mano. Jonas and Pogacar need a strong team to set up an attack. There is a huge difference with Marc Soler setting you up for an attack and peak Sepp Kuss doing that.

Then when one of them attacks, it is still up to the other one to be able to follow the attack.

 

[Rou]

Then when one of them attacks, it is still up to the other one to be able to follow the attack.

True but is much harder for one or the other to drop his opponent with a slow pace and weak climbing support.

 

[Monsi]

True but is much harder for one or the other to drop his opponent with a slow pace and weak climbing support.

In the end though, if let's say, UAE (if you assume they still have a somewhat weaker climbing squad than Visma) leads out Pogacar for an attack and Jonas gets dropped by his attack, then it won't matter anyway who has the stronger climbing support.

 

[Rou]

In the end though, if let's say, UAE (if you assume they still have a somewhat weaker climbing squad than Visma) leads out Pogacar for an attack and Jonas gets dropped by his attack, then it won't matter anyway who has the stronger climbing support.

In 8 days we will see their relative levels. The problem for Pogacar is not if they isolate him on the last climb but when they drop his whole team 50 kms from the finish. On the Granon stage they did that and destroyed him. Pogacar is human. He can bonk. In fact he is the more likely rider to bonk because we have seen that from him multiple times.
I have not see Jonas bonk a single time so far in his career.

 

[Monsi]

In 8 days we will see their relative levels. The problem for Pogacar is not if they isolate him on the last climb but when they drop his whole team 50 kms from the finish. On the Granon stage they did that and destroyed him. Pogacar is human. He can bonk. In fact he is the more likely rider to bonk because we have seen that from him multiple times.
I have not see Jonas bonk a single time so far in his career.

Would need someone to be at or near the same level as Pogi and Jonas for a Galibier style tactic to work again. And I don't see that atm.

What I'll say though is that Almeida will have to be at the top of his game. Cause if there's someone who should be marking Jorgenson or Yates, it's him.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Majka looked really angry with McNulty who has made the top 10 in an embarrassing way without helping his team.

For Pogacar, it will be important to lead a team that wants to die for him in the Tour.

For some reason McNulty, Vine are not in the Tour team since 2022

 

[Peyroteo94]

This is true but Soler, Sivakov, Yates and Almeida are good enough to create a very hard race before Pogacar's attack.

True but is much harder for one or the other to drop his opponent with a slow pace and weak climbing support.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Agreed. Ultimately everyone knows that Pog and Vignegaard are a considerable step ahead of anybody else. When they go it will be mano a mano.

This and Dauphiné will already give us strong evidence about how better those two are.

 

[Rou]

This is true but Soler, Sivakov, Yates and Almeida are good enough to create a very hard race before Pogacar's attack.

I don't know man. UAE today with better riders than EF looked like complete buffoons on the bottom of Finestre. I hope Yates recovers in one month because he was getting worse and worse with every day in the Giro. If not Almeida needs to be at his best level ever or Pogi will need to wheelsuck Visma's train the whole Tour.