Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

way below Pdb and Isola, and those climbs were in super hard mountain stages, not an unipuerto

Reasons:
Headwind
Vingegaard and Pogacar didn't fully committed

 

[Peyroteo94]

Adam is completely useless on this Tour. For what he's doing, I would have preferred Majka, 35 years old and doubling. I don't think he'd contribute any less.

Sivakov and Soler horrible.
Today they were destroyed by Benoot and Campenaerts being Soler and Sivakov climbers.

My suspicions from before the Tour have been confirmed. UAE should have swapped Sivakov or Yates for another climber on the team. They've been doing poorly all year.

What I didn't expect was Soler's performance being so poor.

Very weak team in the high mountains without Almeida.
Next year, they will have to change 3 or 4 riders.
Yates, Soler and Sivakov can't ride the Tour if they maintain this level. Almeida will not ride the Tour so they must buy some good climbers.

 

[rafa92]

Reasons:
Headwind
Vingegaard and Pogacar didn't fully committed

headwind is considered in w/kg computation, I agree that both of them did not commit 100%

 

[Lorzenz08]

Reasons:
Headwind
Vingegaard and Pogacar didn't fully committed

" Vingegaard attacked a lot, but I knew I could follow him and stay in his wheel," commented the general classification leader. "I didn't need to 'overcommit' myself; I didn't want to overdo it and risk a counterattack from Jonas behind. I tried it once, but I didn't want to hurt my legs. I climbed at my own pace . "

Pogacar a eu le Ventoux gestionnaire : "Je ne voulais pas en faire trop "

Pas de victoire mais pas de souci pour Tadej Pogacar. Le maillot jaune a conforté son statut de leader mardi lors de la 16e étape.

www.eurosport.fr

 

[Red Rick]

way below Pdb and Isola, and those climbs were in super hard mountain stages, not an unipuerto

The false flat before Ventoux and the tailwind on top affect the numbers quite a bit. Maybe even more so than the overall difficulty of the PdB and especially Isola stages. Isola was a pretty short stage, the 40 minutes before they hit Isola were 100W max and they had a gigantic tailwind there.

Alas, when everyone is doing career high numbers on the same day, it doesn't tell you that much. The red flag for me is only being 1'10 or so faster than Roglic who has been underperforming longer climbs pretty hard so far and who dropped 44 seconds to him on the 18 minute Peyragudes.

 

[Cycling111]

Very weak team in the high mountains without Almeida.
Next year, they will have to change 3 or 4 riders.
Yates, Soler and Sivakov can't ride the Tour if they maintain this level. Almeida will not ride the Tour so they must buy some good climbers.

I think Almeida will participate in the Giro-Tour. The second as a domestique. And I assume Del Toro will debut as a domestique.

Soler and Sivakov are in poor form, but I didn't expect them to be destroyed by Benoot and Campenaerts.

In any case, during the Giro I already said that the UAE was too ambitious for the Giro and was neglecting the Tour team, given the performance of Sivakov and Yates. So many aspirations with so many leaders. The same thing happened in Paris-Roubaix. Pogacar was completely alone while several riders grew tired leading smaller races.

They have a record of winning, but they should prioritize winning less and taking the best team to the most important races.

 

[snipeheem]

" Vingegaard attacked a lot, but I knew I could follow him and stay in his wheel," commented the general classification leader. "I didn't need to 'overcommit' myself; I didn't want to overdo it and risk a counterattack from Jonas behind. I tried it once, but I didn't want to hurt my legs. I climbed at my own pace . "

Pogacar a eu le Ventoux gestionnaire : "Je ne voulais pas en faire trop "

Pas de victoire mais pas de souci pour Tadej Pogacar. Le maillot jaune a conforté son statut de leader mardi lors de la 16e étape.

www.eurosport.fr

Yeah, he was chilling

 

[Peyroteo94]

The team is good. They are underperforming. Only change was Ayuso for Narvaez.

I think Almeida will participate in the Giro-Tour. The second as a domestique. And I assume Del Toro will debut as a domestique.

Soler and Sivakov are in poor form, but I didn't expect them to be destroyed by Benoot and Campenaerts.

In any case, during the Giro I already said that the UAE was too ambitious for the Giro and was neglecting the Tour team, given the performance of Sivakov and Yates. So many aspirations with so many leaders. The same thing happened in Paris-Roubaix. Pogacar was completely alone while several riders grew tired leading smaller races.

They have a record of winning, but they should prioritize winning less and taking the best team to the most important races.

 

[AmRacer]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1947672731786625355

View: https://x.com/Domestique___/status/1947672731786625355

Jonas crushed his own record

 

[Red Rick]

The false flat before Ventoux and the tailwind on top affect the numbers quite a bit. Maybe even more so than the overall difficulty of the PdB and especially Isola stages. Isola was a pretty short stage, the 40 minutes before they hit Isola were 100W max and they had a gigantic tailwind there.

Alas, when everyone is doing career high numbers on the same day, it doesn't tell you that much. The red flag for me is only being 1'10 or so faster than Roglic who has been underperforming longer climbs pretty hard so far and who dropped 44 seconds to him on the 18 minute Peyragudes.

Btw you can literally seeon Onley's strava file that the 11 minutes before they even hit the steep part he's doing 6.15 W/kg for 11 minutes

 

[Cycling111]

The team is good. They are underperforming. Only change was Ayuso for Narvaez.

What I mean is that Adam and Sivakov have been climbing poorly all year, and with that in mind, Adam shouldn't have been allowed to do the Giro and Sivavkov should have been replaced by another climber.

 

[Peyroteo94]

What I mean is that Adam and Sivakov have been climbing poorly all year, and with that in mind, Adam shouldn't have been allowed to do the Giro and Sivavkov should have been replaced by another climber.

Maybe Majka for Yates would be the only reasonable choice

 

[Valv.Piti]

The false flat before Ventoux and the tailwind on top affect the numbers quite a bit. Maybe even more so than the overall difficulty of the PdB and especially Isola stages. Isola was a pretty short stage, the 40 minutes before they hit Isola were 100W max and they had a gigantic tailwind there.

Alas, when everyone is doing career high numbers on the same day, it doesn't tell you that much. The red flag for me is only being 1'10 or so faster than Roglic who has been underperforming longer climbs pretty hard so far and who dropped 44 seconds to him on the 18 minute Peyragudes.

Dno, the climb was ridden tactically after Reynard and so its hard to really tell how much more time they could have gained. They were on 1 minute or so at Chalet Reynard after going full gas for 3 km. That should tell you that its another ballgame entirely, after all they aint riding against Lipo, Roglic and Onley, but each other.

Jonas was extremely strong and Pog couldn't even gap him after pulling (albeit not close to 100%) in the headwind and attacking multiple times all out. If Jonas did this in Dauphine, Pog woulda laughed and gapped him with a few minutes today. Jonas is obviously stronger, but i think Pog is on a downward trajectory. The crash has affected him, the sickness as well, so half a rest day tomorrow should do him well, BUT I think Jonas' chances are a lot higher today after what I have seen. I fear an attack on Madeleine and Pré. I think that without the crash, this race is over after the Pyrenees considering how bad Jonas was on Hautacam

 

[Peyroteo94]

" Vingegaard attacked a lot, but I knew I could follow him and stay in his wheel," commented the general classification leader. "I didn't need to 'overcommit' myself; I didn't want to overdo it and risk a counterattack from Jonas behind. I tried it once, but I didn't want to hurt my legs. I climbed at my own pace . "

Pogacar a eu le Ventoux gestionnaire : "Je ne voulais pas en faire trop "

Pas de victoire mais pas de souci pour Tadej Pogacar. Le maillot jaune a conforté son statut de leader mardi lors de la 16e étape.

www.eurosport.fr

Let’s see if this isn't bluff.

 

[Cycling111]

Dno, the climb was ridden tactically after Reynard and so its hard to really tell how much more time they could have gained. They were on 1 minute or so at Chalet Reynard after going full gas for 3 km. That should tell you that its another ballgame entirely, after all they aint riding against Lipo, Roglic and Onley, but each other.

Jonas was extremely strong and Pog couldn't even gap him after pulling (albeit not close to 100%) in the headwind and attacking multiple times all out. If Jonas did this in Dauphine, Pog woulda laughed and gapped him with a few minutes today. Jonas is obviously stronger, but i think Pog is on a downward trajectory. The crash has affected him, the sickness as well, so half a rest day tomorrow should do him well, BUT I think Jonas' chances are a lot higher today after what I have seen. I fear an attack on Madeleine and Pré. I think that without the crash, this race is over after the Pyrenees considering how bad Jonas was on Hautacam

All of Visma was stronger today.
Benoot and Campenaerts were much stronger than Soler.


But Vingegaard's performance today isn't enough. He needs to have a bigger lead than Pogacar had over him at Hautacam. It's a huge amount.

 

[Monsi]

Dno, the climb was ridden tactically after Reynard and so its hard to really tell how much more time they could have gained. They were on 1 minute or so at Chalet Reynard after going full gas for 3 km. That should tell you that its another ballgame entirely, after all they aint riding against Lipo, Roglic and Onley, but each other.

Jonas was extremely strong and Pog couldn't even gap him after pulling (albeit not close to 100%) in the headwind and attacking multiple times all out. If Jonas did this in Dauphine, Pog woulda laughed and gapped him with a few minutes today. Jonas is obviously stronger, but i think Pog is on a downward trajectory. The crash has affected him, the sickness as well, so half a rest day tomorrow should do him well, BUT I think Jonas' chances are a lot higher today after what I have seen. I fear an attack on Madeleine and Pré. I think that without the crash, this race is over after the Pyrenees considering how bad Jonas was on Hautacam

I wouldn't say that Jonas' chances are a lot higher when he wasn't able to drop or even put Pogacar at his limit. Yes, it gives Jonas confidence but at the end of the day, he's further from yellow than he was at the start of the day. Jonas' chances of getting yellow are pretty much the same than it was before the stage.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I wouldn't say that Jonas' chances are a lot higher when he wasn't able to drop or even put Pogacar at his limit. Yes, it gives Jonas confidence but at the end of the day, he's further from yellow than he was at the start of the day. Jonas' chances of getting yellow are pretty much the same than it was before the stage.

Well I disagree with that. Madeleine attack is imminent

 

[Peyroteo94]

Well I disagree with that. Madeleine attack is imminent

Yup. Wout and Yates in the break with a strong pace behind with Kuss and Matteo. Vingegaard will attack for sure on Madeleine.

 

[Cycling111]

Well I disagree with that. Madeleine attack is imminent

He didn't droppe Pogacar today. Pogacar is more likely to stay on his wheel at Madeleine.

 

[Monsi]

Well I disagree with that. Madeleine attack is imminent

Yeah and all Pogi has to do is follow that wheel whenever Jonas goes. Whether that's km 0 or what. At the end of the day, Jonas will have to drop Pogi in order to get yellow and until now, I don't see if he can do that. And not to mention, Pogi is still 4 minutes ahead.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Guys, I know, I know. Thats just my analysis. Look at Pogacar at Jonas' first attack today, I was sure he was gonna drop. He looked decent from that point on apart from his attack which I didn't think was that sharp either

 

[YavorD]

People on here acting like just because Vingegaard wasn't able to drop Pogacar today, means he won't be able to on Thursday..

Yes he didn't. But being able to stay WITH Pogacar today, and actually made him suffer, will give him a big positive boost and extra motivation to attack on Thursday. And if Pogacar isn't able to respond, for whatever reason, could get nasty.

Clearly think Vingegaard is on a much better place today mentally then he was before this stage.

 

[scribers]

Vingo firmly stamped his position on 2nd place today

 

[SHAD0W93]

Pogacar always struggles on the first day after the rest day. He'll be better on the following days.

Visma was much stronger today than UAE. Benoot and Campenaerts were much stronger than Sivakov and Soler, who are climbers.

His attack wasn't strong at all. I really think he is more tired than Vingegaard

Vingegaard is usually better right after the second rest day and then dips down. It was good he kept pace and didn’t lose anything.

 

[bill1109]

Tour is over. Jonas is in same boat as was Pog a few yrs ago. Love seeing Pog ride his wheel relaxed and negate anything he does. Yes blah lots of mountains to come but it's over. Easy to see.. jones stronger this and that. Verbage to try to make definitive defeat interesting. It's over. Jonas trying to so called attack etc still thinks he can win ... is only to keep his high dollar contract going as if there is hope he can win. He will never win another tour of anything unless Pog backs out. It's quite obvious.