Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Unchained]

He is too good. Even when he has hard crashes, he smashes the competition. This doesn't mean those crashes didn't hamper him, this means he is so much better.

A broken collar bone, wrist or hand, shoulder, arm all are very very common outcomes from crashes similar to Tadej' s track record!!
The only difference between Pog crashes and other riders is luck. He doesn't have some special crashing skills just superior luck than his rivals! If he were a cat his 9 lives would have been up a long time ago!! In my opinion he is on borrowed time, can't keep relying on luck.. Guy probably eating calcium smoothies with every meal!!

 

[Peyroteo94]

A broken collar bone, wrist or hand, shoulder, arm all are very very common outcomes from crashes similar to Tadej' s track record!!
The only difference between Pog crashes and other riders is luck. He doesn't have some special crashing skills just superior luck than his rivals! If he were a cat his 9 lives would have been up a long time ago!! In my opinion he is on borrowed time, can't keep relying on luck.. Guy probably eating calcium smoothies with every meal!!

He still had wounds after those crashes. His rivals Roglic and Remco would probably climb backwards after those crashes.

 

[yaf2]

In my opinion he is on borrowed time

Apart from luck there is also a feel element as different riders have different feel of how to react to certain crashes for ex. In his most recent crash at the tour he decided to land on his side(body) rather than trying to stretch his hands which you might think many would do cause of panic & could cause damage to the shoulder. Even though luck is a main factor to skip catastrophic damages from crashes, riders reaction to certain(less damaging) crash shouldn't be understated.

 

[Unchained]

He still had wounds after those crashes. His rivals Roglic and Remco would probably climb backwards after those crashes.

It's just part of cycling, road rash, abrasions and contusions, all injuries that can be ridden through, Pogacar is living proof he unlike all his other rivals has not been breaking bones when crashing.. Roglic and Remco had same crashes, different results something was broken and they couldn't continue.

Apart from luck there is also a feel element as different riders have different feel of how to react to certain crashes for ex. In his most recent crash at the tour he decided to land on his side(body) rather than trying to stretch his hands which you might think many would do cause of panic & could cause damage to the shoulder. Even though luck is a main factor to skip catastrophic damages from crashes, riders reaction to certain(less damaging) crash shouldn't be understated.

In my experience ( hundreds of crashes, road,track, mountain bike, skiing, tripped by my dog, road ,race, CX and motocross motorcycles, snowshoe, cross-country skiing,stairs) I can remember in single digits when, where I was choosing to fall, how to land, on what or who!
Most road bike crashes I have personally experienced have been equivalent of being struck by lightning, one minute you are scooting along, a fraction of a second later you are laying in a pile on the pavement..
On video everything looks like you had or have all kinds of time to do or think things. In my experience you crash without any grace or performance art about how or where you will land.
Maybe gymnastics they have beautiful dismounts but in bike racing usually ugly with body parts being rubbed by the equivalent of 5 grit sandpaper!! If Pogacar is healthy because he has cat like reflexes and does some kind of levitation that no other rider does or has ever done before.. Sign me up!!
Roglic, Remco, Vingegaard, Jay Vine, Jasper Philipsen, Girmay, Wout, Ayuso, Almeida, Mikel Landa and dozens of others all need this " how to fall correctly lesson " I would like mine soon, maybe before work on Tuesday!!
Pogacar is a real punk for not teaching Jay Vine how to fall before he broke his back!!
Come on Pogi spread the knowledge..
At least to your team.. Ayuso and Almeida all busted up because Tadej won't give them the crash injury avoidance seminar!!!

I have a figure 8 typical clavicle break brace in both my first aid kits!!

 

[Brullnux]

He still had wounds after those crashes. His rivals Roglic and Remco would probably climb backwards after those crashes.

Roglic crashes so much that he surely has built up some level of tolerance

 

[Lorzenz08]

A broken collar bone, wrist or hand, shoulder, arm all are very very common outcomes from crashes similar to Tadej' s track record!!
The only difference between Pog crashes and other riders is luck. He doesn't have some special crashing skills just superior luck than his rivals! If he were a cat his 9 lives would have been up a long time ago!! In my opinion he is on borrowed time, can't keep relying on luck.. Guy probably eating calcium smoothies with every meal!!

I mean in 2023 he literally lost a TdF because of the wrist fracture a few weeks earlier.

There are many other riders in the peloton who have similar crash outcome history, you just don't hear about it because they are not Pogacar

 

[Shortcut]

It's just part of cycling, road rash, abrasions and contusions, all injuries that can be ridden through, Pogacar is living proof he unlike all his other rivals has not been breaking bones when crashing.. Roglic and Remco had same crashes, different results something was broken and they couldn't continue.

In my experience ( hundreds of crashes, road,track, mountain bike, skiing, tripped by my dog, road ,race, CX and motocross motorcycles, snowshoe, cross-country skiing,stairs) I can remember in single digits when, where I was choosing to fall, how to land, on what or who!
Most road bike crashes I have personally experienced have been equivalent of being struck by lightning, one minute you are scooting along, a fraction of a second later you are laying in a pile on the pavement..
On video everything looks like you had or have all kinds of time to do or think things. In my experience you crash without any grace or performance art about how or where you will land.
Maybe gymnastics they have beautiful dismounts but in bike racing usually ugly with body parts being rubbed by the equivalent of 5 grit sandpaper!! If Pogacar is healthy because he has cat like reflexes and does some kind of levitation that no other rider does or has ever done before.. Sign me up!!
Roglic, Remco, Vingegaard, Jay Vine, Jasper Philipsen, Girmay, Wout, Ayuso, Almeida, Mikel Landa and dozens of others all need this " how to fall correctly lesson " I would like mine soon, maybe before work on Tuesday!!
Pogacar is a real punk for not teaching Jay Vine how to fall before he broke his back!!
Come on Pogi spread the knowledge..
At least to your team.. Ayuso and Almeida all busted up because Tadej won't give them the crash injury avoidance seminar!!!

I have a figure 8 typical clavicle break brace in both my first aid kits!!

Makes zero sense!! Pogacar has crashed multiple times this year and none have resulted in injuries that require body repair, when Pogacar crossed wheels and smashed into the street, TDF could have been over right there.
When he crashed at Strade Bianchi got up and chased instead of getting into an ambulance, again his whole season is a flip of a coin ,completely based on good luck..Much of the current marvel at Tadej should be just how f-cki#$ lucky he is to pop up and ride away instead of being ushered to the hospital.. His luck might hold up, but bike wreck accidents have a different history.. I have no explanation why he continues to crash injury free and everyone else gets something broken!!
TDF could have been completely different when Pogacar smashed to the ground

You are 100% right. The amount of luck Pogacar has had with all the crashes and accidents is truly incredible. Even when he broke a bone in his wrist at LBL 2023. I don’t think he would have won that Tour de France even if he had been healthy, because in my opinion, Jonas was at his absolute peak at the time. The crash itself was quite serious (at 70 km/h), and a broken wrist bone is a minor injury considering the situation.
Fans generally forget all the circumstances very quickly and only look at the results. For example, if Tadej had suffered the same injuries that Jonas, Remco, or Roglic had over the past two years, he would probably have two fewer Tours and maybe a couple fewer Monuments as well.
He’s also been very lucky with the “G2 syndrome,” which almost always works in his favor – the best example being the World Championships in Zurich. Similarly, he’s lucky that when he decides to attack just enough to form a lead group, the others cooperate.
In short, everything has fallen into place for him over the past two years, and an abnormal amount of luck plays a huge role. Fans completely forget about this, but I think Tadej is very aware of it and is quite careful with the way he talks about these things.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Lucky to attack from 100 km out? 80 in Strade Bianche? From Redoute the past couple of years in LBL? From Kwaremont when he has won Flanders? Nah, thats not luck, thats just an extraordinary athlete..

 

[BubbaChuck]

if you look at strade crash,combo of insane luck to avoid road sign and crazy skill to control the fall.i would argue,even when he is lucky there is element of skill.but off course pog has luck with injuries through the years,yes.

 

[yaf2]

It's just part of cycling, road rash, abrasions and contusions, all injuries that can be ridden through, Pogacar is living proof he unlike all his other rivals has not been breaking bones when crashing.. Roglic and Remco had same crashes, different results something was broken and they couldn't continue.

In my experience ( hundreds of crashes, road,track, mountain bike, skiing, tripped by my dog, road ,race, CX and motocross motorcycles, snowshoe, cross-country skiing,stairs) I can remember in single digits when, where I was choosing to fall, how to land, on what or who!
Most road bike crashes I have personally experienced have been equivalent of being struck by lightning, one minute you are scooting along, a fraction of a second later you are laying in a pile on the pavement..
On video everything looks like you had or have all kinds of time to do or think things. In my experience you crash without any grace or performance art about how or where you will land.
Maybe gymnastics they have beautiful dismounts but in bike racing usually ugly with body parts being rubbed by the equivalent of 5 grit sandpaper!! If Pogacar is healthy because he has cat like reflexes and does some kind of levitation that no other rider does or has ever done before.. Sign me up!!
Roglic, Remco, Vingegaard, Jay Vine, Jasper Philipsen, Girmay, Wout, Ayuso, Almeida, Mikel Landa and dozens of others all need this " how to fall correctly lesson " I would like mine soon, maybe before work on Tuesday!!
Pogacar is a real punk for not teaching Jay Vine how to fall before he broke his back!!
Come on Pogi spread the knowledge..
At least to your team.. Ayuso and Almeida all busted up because Tadej won't give them the crash injury avoidance seminar!!!

I have a figure 8 typical clavicle break brace in both my first aid kits!!

Dude u completely drifted away from my whole comment. I said less severe crashes i dont want u to put itzulia or philipsons crash in this category. The better bike handler u are the better u react to certain crashes. Its more about the feel u get on the bike not that u can teach someone

 

[Peyroteo94]

You are 100% right. The amount of luck Pogacar has had with all the crashes and accidents is truly incredible. Even when he broke a bone in his wrist at LBL 2023. I don’t think he would have won that Tour de France even if he had been healthy, because in my opinion, Jonas was at his absolute peak at the time. The crash itself was quite serious (at 70 km/h), and a broken wrist bone is a minor injury considering the situation.
Fans generally forget all the circumstances very quickly and only look at the results. For example, if Tadej had suffered the same injuries that Jonas, Remco, or Roglic had over the past two years, he would probably have two fewer Tours and maybe a couple fewer Monuments as well.
He’s also been very lucky with the “G2 syndrome,” which almost always works in his favor – the best example being the World Championships in Zurich. Similarly, he’s lucky that when he decides to attack just enough to form a lead group, the others cooperate.
In short, everything has fallen into place for him over the past two years, and an abnormal amount of luck plays a huge role. Fans completely forget about this, but I think Tadej is very aware of it and is quite careful with the way he talks about these things.

Really? His wrist injury was more severe than people think. He broke 3 bones and was spending (almost) all May climbing stairs without doing cycling outdoors.
Vingegaard was better in 2023 but due to Pogacar's ups and downs. A well prepared Pogacar wouldn't lose 1 minute in Marie Blanque, would do a good TT recon (he didn't). I saw a Vingegaard unable to match Pogacar's power a couple of times. In fact Pogacar took a huge leap from 2022 to 2023 too but people weren't able to see it because of his injury.
He dominated Ardennes and RVV before his crash.

 

[Peyroteo94]

When Pogacar fixed that inconsistency (by doing heat training and more endurance training on long climbs), Vingegaard lost any weapon or strategy to fight Pogacar.

 

[Shortcut]

Lucky to attack from 100 km out? 80 in Strade Bianche? From Redoute the past couple of years in LBL? From Kwaremont when he has won Flanders? Nah, thats not luck, thats just an extraordinary athlete..

How can you take things so much out of context?? He himself said he was lucky last year after WC and that his attack was kinda stupid (but you know somehow better?). Doing solo after Kwaremont with only MvDP (after a while there was a grouo)in the chase doesn't count as group 2 sindrome. On Strade, LBL and his long solos... who was really there to beat him.. Pidcock? Of course he is the strongest one out there and he deserved all those wins, but even the strongest one can be beaten (like he was this year on Amstel).

 

[Valv.Piti]

How can you take things so much out of context?? He himself said he was lucky last year after WC and that his attack was kinda stupid (but you know somehow better?). Doing solo after Kwaremont with only MvDP (after a while there was a grouo)in the chase doesn't count as group 2 sindrome. On Strade, LBL and his long solos... who was really there to beat him.. Pidcock? Of course he is the strongest one out there and he deserved all those wins, but even the strongest one can be beaten (like he was this year on Amstel).

Its not luck, its how cycling generally works. Its really, really hard to find groups that can cooperate at those points in these races.

 

[Peyroteo94]

How can you take things so much out of context?? He himself said he was lucky last year after WC and that his attack was kinda stupid (but you know somehow better?). Doing solo after Kwaremont with only MvDP (after a while there was a grouo)in the chase doesn't count as group 2 sindrome. On Strade, LBL and his long solos... who was really there to beat him.. Pidcock? Of course he is the strongest one out there and he deserved all those wins, but even the strongest one can be beaten (like he was this year on Amstel).

Are you implying Vingegaard, Roglic or Remco without crashes would be able to do similar things to what Pogacar did/does? I hope you aren't.

 

[AmRacer]

Are you implying Vingegaard, Roglic or Remco without crashes would be able to do similar things to what Pogacar did/does? I hope you aren't.

The other way around. Had Pogi crashed like the other three, he wouldn't had won so much.

That's skills/ or luck

 

[Peyroteo94]

The other way around. Had Pogi crashed like the other three, he wouldn't had won so much.

That's skills/ or luck

Both.
However, I have zero doubts Remco/Roglic/Vingegaard without major crashes wouldn't have 1/3 of Pogacar's palmares.

 

[snipeheem]

Both.
However, I have zero doubts Remco/Roglic/Vingegaard without major crashes wouldn't have 1/3 of Pogacar's palmares.

Its obvious for anybody with brain

 

[Shortcut]

Are you implying Vingegaard, Roglic or Remco without crashes would be able to do similar things to what Pogacar did/does? I hope you aren't.

You know what i meant. If Jonas is the one without crash last year and Tadej would be one with pnevmotoraks, Jonas would be the one having at least 3 TdFs and Tadej wouldn't have von LBL 2024, Giro probably not even WC 2024. That would change a lot of things for Pogacar.

 

[rafa92]

Really? His wrist injury was more severe than people think. He broke 3 bones and was spending (almost) all May climbing stairs without doing cycling outdoors.
Vingegaard was better in 2023 but due to Pogacar's ups and downs. A well prepared Pogacar wouldn't lose 1 minute in Marie Blanque, would do a good TT recon (he didn't). I saw a Vingegaard unable to match Pogacar's power a couple of times. In fact Pogacar took a huge leap from 2022 to 2023 too but people weren't able to see it because of his injury.
He dominated Ardennes and RVV before his crash.

absolutely, I have little doubt that with a proper preparation pog would have won the tour in 2023. People overestimate the level of vingegaard in 2023, especially on the TT and the loze stage simply because pogacar had nothing left in week 3. Vingegaard himself has said multiple times in 2024 and 2025 that he's at an higher level now

 

[Peyroteo94]

You know what i meant. If Jonas is the one without crash last year and Tadej would be one with pnevmotoraks, Jonas would be the one having at least 3 TdFs and Tadej wouldn't have von LBL 2024, Giro probably not even WC 2024. That would change a lot of things for Pogacar.

The question you should make is: Would Pogacar have a worse palmares if no one crashed? Vingegaard without those injuries would beat Pogacar in 2024?
Would Remco beat Pogacar in LBL 2024?
My answer to these 3 questions is a "big fat no". Of course this is just my opinion.

 

[James M]

You know what i meant. If Jonas is the one without crash last year and Tadej would be one with pnevmotoraks, Jonas would be the one having at least 3 TdFs and Tadej wouldn't have von LBL 2024, Giro probably not even WC 2024. That would change a lot of things for Pogacar.

Youre looking at it backwards when you generalize it.Jonas and Remco are relying on Pog not being at his best. And the same goes for everyone else: Healy, Ciccone, blabla, everyone across the board. He's gatekeeping the entire field.

Nothing changes for Pogi as long as he's at 100% strength. If any of those guys crash, it doesn't affect the outcome related to him at all in reality. But if Pogacar isn't at full strength, it alters everything.

 

[Shortcut]

The question you should make is: Would Pogacar have a worse palmares if no one crashed? Vingegaard without those injuries would beat Pogacar in 2024?
Would Remco beat Pogacar in LBL 2024?
My answer to these 3 questions is a "big fat no". Of course this is just my opinion.

If that is the question then i agree with you. He would still won LBL 2024, Giro and TdF but it wouldn't be easy as it was. LBL looked really as a training for him and with healthy Remco it would be much closer. The same thing with TdF 2024 and Jonas. Gap would probably be under 2 min. The thing is that was not the question(!!), we were talking about how lucky Pogacar is with his crashes (and other not so). I am big fan of him, but crash at Strade (it was his own fault), P-R (also his fault), on Tour this year (not his fault) could be really much worse and could have turn season totally around. With so much talk about how long will he stay active, i would say it's much more important how long will be stay injury free and healthy.

 

[Peyroteo94]

If that is the question then i agree with you. He would still won LBL 2024, Giro and TdF but it wouldn't be easy as it was. LBL looked really as a training for him and with healthy Remco it would be much closer. The same thing with TdF 2024 and Jonas. Gap would probably be under 2 min. The thing is that was not the question(!!), we were talking about how lucky Pogacar is with his crashes (and other not so). I am big fan of him, but crash at Strade (it was his own fault), P-R (also his fault), on Tour this year (not his fault) could be really much worse and could have turn season totally around. With so much talk about how long will he stay active, i would say it's much more important how long will be stay injury free and healthy.

For me this is the main question. If you are saying he wouldn't win so much if he had a severe crash. This is obviously true.
However other "aliens" would be able to beat Pogacar if they didn't crash? I don't think so.
There is other question important to do. What if Pogacar didn't focus his season on winning everything and targetted just GTs or classics? Would the gap be the same or bigger?

 

[MariaB]

If that is the question then i agree with you. He would still won LBL 2024, Giro and TdF but it wouldn't be easy as it was. LBL looked really as a training for him and with healthy Remco it would be much closer. The same thing with TdF 2024 and Jonas. Gap would probably be under 2 min. The thing is that was not the question(!!), we were talking about how lucky Pogacar is with his crashes (and other not so). I am big fan of him, but crash at Strade (it was his own fault), P-R (also his fault), on Tour this year (not his fault) could be really much worse and could have turn season totally around. With so much talk about how long will he stay active, i would say it's much more important how long will be stay injury free and healthy.

The harder he works, the luckier he gets.