Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Charlyghoul]

But why use silly historical references? Is finding a local blacksmith to forge a broken part for your bike a current skill? Changing your own tires after carrying them on your body!! Or dismount to switch gears!!? Is cycling divided into shifting eras? Single speed, get off to change chain, downtube shifters, mechanical, electronic shifting?

I never brought that stuff up, you did.
I said the best way to compare is the quality of the riders who are finishing on the podium and in the top ten.
In Merckx era the competition was much stronger. It’s now a two horse race.
The speed of the rest of the peloton means nothing.

 

[Unchained]

If they were stronger and faster than ever then there would be more consistency in the top places. They might be faster, but they aren’t stronger, or better.
Average race speed is a terrible metric to compare eras, the worst metric

Speed and wattage are the metrics, for better or worse how fast people can ride a bike in a stage, in an hour on a velodrome, in TTs is the industry standard, hardly a subjective measurement of bike racing performance.. Since invention of the bicycle, how to go faster has been major goal for rider and machine

 

[snipeheem]

I think if you picked them all the greats in their prime, in an average tour with decent amount of mountains and decent amount of time trials, with the same equipment, Coppi, Bartali and Merckx would be the podium.
Hinault, Pogacar, Indurain, Lemond would be in the top ten, that is just my opinion

Pogacar would smoke all of them. Easy work.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Speed and wattage are the metrics, for better or worse how fast people can ride a bike in a stage, in an hour on a velodrome, in TTs is the industry standard, hardly a subjective measurement of bike racing performance.. Since invention of the bicycle, how to go faster has been major goal for rider and machine

But if you use that you can only compare within one era where the equipment is the same. It’s pointless talking about wattages, Coppi went slower because of his equipment, we don’t know what wattage he was putting out. We don’t know if Pog can do what Fausto did or vice versa.
Speed isn’t a good way to compare between eras, especially in a sport like cycling where so much is dependent on equipment.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Pogacar would smoke all of them. Easy work.

One thing to beat Oscar Onley, Merckx or Coppi will beat up Pogacar so bad in the real mountains they will send him back to doing children’s kermesses in the Julian alps.

 

[snipeheem]

One thing to beat Oscar Onley, Merckx or Coppi will beat up Pogacar so bad in the real mountains they will send him back to doing children’s kermesses in the Julian alps.

Hahaha he would have smoke Eddy so bad. I would love to see 74kg Eddy on Plateau de Beille with Pog

 

[Cycling111]

It's more difficult to be a versatile cyclist these days because it's something that barely exists. Pogacar's merit is having brought back the figure of the versatile cyclist, after years of specialization. That will be his legacy.

Pogacar won the Tour de France against someone who spent all spring training while Pogacar was in Roubaix competing against someone who hasn't had any pressure since then because VDP´s season ends there every year, except for a few world championships that suit him, because they don't participate in every one of them like in 70´s

What I don't understand is that people who live in this era are determined not to see that and to diminish the value of what they are experiencing. The older generation defends their era, and those of today discredit their era because of pure hate.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Bartali won the tour, missed nearly ten years of his prime, risked his life to save Jews in the war, and came back and won the tour at 34.

Pogacar is ‘tired and fatigued’ racing against one man and wants to retire at 26.

I suppose there are champions , and then there are champions.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Hahaha he would have smoke Eddy so bad. I would love to see 74kg Eddy on Plateau de Beille with Pog

Merckx does not crack against lots of tour winners , Pog cracked twice against his only threat. I think he would do just fine

 

[Unchained]

But if you use that you can only compare within one era where the equipment is the same. It’s pointless talking about wattages, Coppi went slower because of his equipment, we don’t know what wattage he was putting out. We don’t know if Pog can do what Fausto did or vice versa.
Speed isn’t a good way to compare between eras, especially in a sport like cycling where so much is dependent on equipment.

Exactly!! So neither of us can really make an apples to apples comparison. You can't bring Coppi, Bartali, Merckx and compare anything but wins..it's not lost on me that not so many years ago, Lance Armstrong's original director wrote 2 books in English about what to do for successful bike racing results.. In those books eating meat of all kinds was best practice, thought that you were consuming excellent cross sections of amino acids, the training and diet laid out are completely the opposite of current techniques, technology and nutrition on and off the bike. And off season is another thing that is no longer observed. Intentional weight gain for health and recovery is still a thing, but nothing like years previous. Jan Ullrich baby fat famous burn off is no longer a thing.. Nobody comes into a race multiple kilos over and races it off..but at the time depending on era everything was best practices.. Consuming alcohol and amphetamines was also part of best practices for decades..
But current riders generate more watts per kilo than at any time in history!! So regardless of the bicycle, the rider is more capable.. With AI and wearable devices that is likely to improve

 

[SHAD0W93]

We have seen that Pog can have a bad day, Vingo is the more consistent rider of the two. Certainly I think it would be good and more fun if Vingo can win another

Vingegaard has had his bad days as well and unlike Pogacar, gave up on the overall win two years in a row.

 

[Charlyghoul]

It's more difficult to be a versatile cyclist these days because it's something that barely exists. Pogacar's merit is having brought back the figure of the versatile cyclist, after years of specialization. That will be his legacy.

Pogacar won the Tour de France against someone who spent all spring training while Pogacar was in Roubaix competing against someone who hasn't had any pressure since then because VDP´s season ends there every year, except for a few world championships that suit him, because they don't participate in every one of them like in 70´s

What I don't understand is that people who live in this era are determined not to see that and to diminish the value of what they are experiencing. The older generation defends their era, and those of today discredit their era because of pure hate.

I’ve said many times I like Pogi, it’s great how he has brought back the old school riding.

 

[snipeheem]

Merckx does not crack against lots of tour winners , Pog cracked twice against his only threat. I think he would do just fine

Cracked with cracked hand without prep. After one hard stage with MTF your Eddy would be 5 min behind.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Exactly!! So neither of us can really make an apples to apples comparison. You can't bring Coppi, Bartali, Merckx and compare anything but wins..it's not lost on me that not so many years ago, Lance Armstrong's original director wrote 2 books in English about what to do for successful bike racing results.. In those books eating meat of all kinds was best practice, thought that you were consuming excellent cross sections of amino acids, the training and diet laid out are completely the opposite of current techniques, technology and nutrition on and off the bike. And off season is another thing that is no longer observed. Intentional weight gain for health and recovery is still a thing, but nothing like years previous. Jan Ullrich baby fat famous burn off is no longer a thing.. Nobody comes into a race multiple kilos over and races it off..but at the time depending on era everything was best practices.. Consuming alcohol and amphetamines was also part of best practices for decades..
But current riders generate more watts per kilo than at any time in history!! So regardless of the bicycle, the rider is more capable.. With AI and wearable devices that is likely to improve

Bloody watts per kilo…
I think Pog would beat all those past riders out of pure boredom.
But how many watts did Coppi put out ? Might have been more than Tadej?

 

[Cycling111]

In any case, we're making progress.

First, Pogacar wasn't better than Roglic, then Remco was going to be much better than him, then it was said that Van Aert was the most versatile cyclist in the world, then he wasn't better than VDP or Vingegaard.

Now they have to turn to Merckx and compare him to another era to underestimate him

It's a progress . At least it means the debate about him being the undisputed best of this era is over, and having to turn to Merckx means they consider him the second best.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Cracked with cracked hand without prep. After one hard stage with MTF your Eddy would be 5 min behind.

Cracked hand ? Merckx never cracked with a screwed up Pelvis.
Also as a pure climber Bahamontes and Charly will destroy Tadej

 

[BubbaChuck]

fantasy,if pogacar is doing this somewhat clean,he would destroy everbody else as apinjata.thats the only question.but consideering his level at 26 he would simply run circles.

 

[Charlyghoul]

fantasy,if pogacar is doing this somewhat clean,he would destroy everbody else as apinjata.thats the only question.but consideering his level at 26 he would simply run circles.

A somewhat big if..

If Roglic started at 20 like Tadej, he will Roglstomp him

 

[snipeheem]

Cracked hand ? Merckx never cracked with a screwed up Pelvis.
Also as a pure climber Bahamontes and Charly will destroy Tadej

I was talking about Pog with cracked hand. Bahamontes and charly after 1 mtf are also behind 5-6 min. Nobody in history of cycling stand any chance against this Pog

 

[Charlyghoul]

I was talking about Pog with cracked hand. Bahamontes and charly after 1 mtf are also behind 5-6 min. Nobody in history of cycling stand any chance against this Pog

Pog is tied with Primoz, Pog doesn’t even have the most grand tours of Slovenia. How can he be the goat ?
Charly Gaul would dance away from him. Bahamontes will have time for a lick of his ice cream before letting Pog catch up

 

[Charlyghoul]

Pog is the best of his era
As was Indurain
Indurain is not in the top 5 cyclists of all time
Pog isn’t there yet either

 

[snipeheem]

Pog is tied with Primoz, Pog doesn’t even have the most grand tours of Slovenia. How can he be the goat ?
Charly Gaul would dance away from him. Bahamontes will have time for a lick of his ice cream before letting Pog catch up

15 years old pogi would have stomp both of them lets stop with prime pog

 

[Charlyghoul]

15 years old pogi would have stomp both of them lets stop with prime pog

Pog would not live with riders if the past.

Nobody could live with Charly Gaul at his best, he was the best climber and even beat Anquetil in the time trials when he won the tour.
Then you have Anquetil himself.

Pog is not even the best tter of his generation, all of Coppi, Eddy, Anq, Indurain were the best.
Pog is a poor descender, his race craft is poor at times, his sprint is average.

No no, he’s a great climber but that isn’t enough to be the goat.

 

[BubbaChuck]

how much could eddie shed.coppi worse build than remco.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Merckx winning 7 MSR shows how cycling was a "joke" 50 years ago. In what world would a rider who isn't a sprinter (despite being fast) win 7 MSR in today's era specially when (IIRC) Cipressa wasn't in the race?