Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Hugh Januss]

I remember when they said Van Aert was the best and most complete cyclist in the world for winning the Ventoux stage from a breakaway. Even though he wasn't capable of doing the overall like Pogacar.

To be fair that was before Pogi exhibited the full extent of his abilities in Classics type races. Also, "they" were wrong.

 

[Cycling111]

To be fair that was before Pogi exhibited the full extent of his abilities in Classics type races. Also, "they" were wrong.

He had already won Lombardia and Liège. Van Aert won a stage from the breakaway, but not being a GC cyclist already put him behind Pogacar.

The feeling is that Pogacar has been undervalued for many years and has always had to prove more each year to overcome comparisons. As soon as he won at Ventoux, Van Aert was already the best and most complete rider in the world.

 

[pihi42]

Who is the greatest composer of all time? What about the greatest painter? Mathematician? Rock band? We think we know who the tallest person ever was, except we aren't sure since not all people have been measured in meters and recorded. And a certain great writer put it this way "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about". Pogi is a legend of cycling at 27 years old, he will be mentioned in any GOAT conversation for the next 50 years at least. There will be lists with him on top and lists with him in top 10. But he will be included in all of them. Cycling will be forever divided into "before", "during" and "after" Pogačar era. But it is his opponents, their own greatness, that will define his own. There is no Pogi without Vingegaard, MVDP and Evenepoel. All "ranking lists" I'm aware of lack this weighting factor, something like an ELO rating of chess players. Fischer vs Carlsen vs Kasparov is an easier comparison although they are from "different eras". It should be possible to calculate ELO of cyclists past and present.

 

[James M]

Van der Poel is argualby the best cobbles racer ever but good for cycling that Pogacar is taking up the challenge!

Not to dismiss Jonas vs. Pog in the Tour its also incredible and up there but currently not at the same level atm, discrepancy is to big.

From a historic perspective this is as good as it gets. For sure, MvdP is arguably among the best cobble rider ever, total freak, going up against the best rider ever in Pogacar, toe-to-toe with MvdP in PR and the RVV, on MvdP’s turf, It's amazing and hard to drew up a better matchup if we could cherry pick even, cause they both clash in their prime which makes it even more rare, only question which remains how long will that last for both.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Merckx won races by a landslide. How they think he won? Anyway, a Belgian will always belittle the rest.

They've only agreed to compare Remco to Merckx; they consider doing so to a foreigner an insult, even though he wins more than Remco or other Belgians who have tried to compare Merckx.

Something similar happens in France with Hinault. They can't stand dominant cyclists, but they're eager for another French Hinault to emerge.

But it's already a good sign that they're even belittling Merckx. Theystarted saying Pogacar wasn´t better than Roglic, VDP, Vingegaard, or Remco. Then he wasn't even in the top five all-time, and now all they have to do is say he's no better than Merckx. Things are getting better .

I remember when they said Van Aert was the best and most complete cyclist in the world for winning the Ventoux stage from a breakaway. Even though he wasn't capable of doing the overall like Pogacar.

Pogacar is the best and most complete rider since 2021.

 

[Peyroteo94]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1972320644583792881

View: https://x.com/prestigelisten/status/1972320644583792881?t=E1JtQA_S1e3Cj0qFrbhNWg&s=19

This season will sit in the top3

 

[Peyroteo94]

Not to dismiss Jonas vs. Pog in the Tour its also incredible and up there but currently not at the same level atm, discrepancy is to big.

From a historic perspective this is as good as it gets. For sure, MvdP is arguably among the best cobble rider ever, total freak, going up against the best rider ever in Pogacar, toe-to-toe with MvdP in PR and the RVV, on MvdP’s turf, It's amazing and hard to drew up a better matchup if we could cherry pick even, cause they both clash in their prime which makes it even more rare, only question which remains how long will that last for both.

I don't think MVP will race after 2028.

 

[Lorzenz08]

I think Pogi will end up winning 1 MSR and 2 PR by the end of his career

 

[YavorD]

He had already won Lombardia and Liège. Van Aert won a stage from the breakaway, but not being a GC cyclist already put him behind Pogacar.

The feeling is that Pogacar has been undervalued for many years and has always had to prove more each year to overcome comparisons. As soon as he won at Ventoux, Van Aert was already the best and most complete rider in the world.

Yes, because he was doing sprints, he was doing TT's, he was doing spring classics while also doing some CX. Oh, and he was climbing really good. Given some of his performances in 2020-2022, you could objectively say he could win all tthe 5 monuments. This is whta makes you a complete cyclist. Not winning LBL and Lombardia while you're the best climber.
So yeah, as much as I don't like Van Aert, you could realistically say he was the most compete cyclist between 2020 and 2022.

 

[Cycling111]

Yes, because he was doing sprints, he was doing TT's, he was doing spring classics while also doing some CX. Oh, and he was climbing really good. Given some of his performances in 2020-2022, you could objectively say he could win all tthe 5 monuments. This is whta makes you a complete cyclist. Not winning LBL and Lombardia while you're the best climber.
So yeah, as much as I don't like Van Aert, you could realistically say he was the most compete cyclist between 2020 and 2022.

If we're going to count other modalities like cyclocross, then Pidcock is the most complete.
Obviously, we're talking about road racing.
And I still don't agree. Pogacar had already shown his abilities in stages like the Tirreno Adriatico, where he almost caught VDP, and other races.Van Aert couldn´t compete in a GC

Let's not kid ourselves, nationality counts for a lot. If Pogacar were from a powerful country, he would have been recognized sooner. Especially in a sport as chauvinistic and rooted in history as cycling, which for decades was the preserve of just a few countries.

 

[Peyroteo94]

These articles... completely ignored Remco going behind cars in his fastest lap.
Other thing very important: Pogacar had his nose in the wind since Mount Kigali (104 km left). IIRC Remco just put his nose with 66 km to the finish.
After that, Pogacar was riding alone while Remco had 4 riders with him (then 3 and when Pidock dropped he had 2) until the last 20 km. He was losing time to Pogacar. Case closed about who was clearly the strongest. GdL will be another massacre just like last year. I will be shocked to see someone under 1' of Pogacar.
The EC depends a lot on Slovenia but in normal conditions, Pogacar will destroy his rivals too.

Pogacar vs. Evenepoel: Round 2 at the European Championships? Strava data suggest the Slovenian could be in for a fight in France

Tadej Pogacar managed to outclass Remco Evenepoel in the road race at the World Cycling Championships in Rwanda. Two bike changes by the Belgian meant he was completely out of contention, but he shoul...

www.idlprocycling.com

 

[YavorD]

If we're going to count other modalities like cyclocross, then Pidcock is the most complete.
Obviously, we're talking about road racing.
And I still don't agree. Pogacar had already shown his abilities in stages like the Tirreno Adriatico, where he almost caught VDP, and other races.Van Aert couldn´t compete in a GC

Let's not kid ourselves, nationality counts for a lot. If Pogacar were from a powerful country, he would have been recognized sooner. Especially in a sport as chauvinistic and rooted in history as cycling, which for decades was the preserve of just a few countries.

Yeah, no. That's the victim mentality here.
It's fair to say that Van Aert was the most complete rider in 2020-2022. He could literally do everything. Nothing in common with nations and all that.
Of course, that's not undeniable statement, but a very well reasoned one.
Undeniable statement is that Pogacar of now is the most complete cyclist in the last 40 years.

 

[Cycling111]

Yeah, no. That's the victim mentality here.
It's fair to say that Van Aert was the most complete rider in 2020-2022. He could literally do everything. Nothing in common with nations and all that.
Of course, that's not undeniable statement, but a very well reasoned one.
Undeniable statement is that Pogacar of now is the most complete cyclist in the last 40 years.

It's not about being a victim, it's about living in a society and knowing its reality.

Honestly, if Pogacar were Belgian, do you think he wouldn't have been treated differently? And would he have been considered sooner?
Not to mention other issues that can't be discussed here,but in another specific thread in the forum

In cycling there's always more condescension toward Belgians, Dutch, Italians, or British.
I don't mean this as a criticism; it's an observation, not a denial of reality. When there's a majority and historical roots, things are treated differently, and sport is no different. And as I say, cycling is a particularly chauvinistic sport rooted in history.

We live in a society where minorities constantly have to fight for their rights. It's not victimhood; it's a reality.

 

[YavorD]

Honestly, if Pogacar were Belgian, do you think he wouldn't have been treated differently? And would he have been considered sooner?

No he wouldn't. Objectively Van Aert was a more complete cyclist in 2021. He was winning flat sprints, TT's, contending Northern and hilly classics while he beat Pogacar in an extremely climbers friendly course in Tokyo. Pogacar was only doing stage races and climbers friendly classics.
And of course you are playing the victim card here. "If he was from this and this country instead of this and this...". That's a proper victim mentality.

But if it makes you feel better, go on.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yeah, no. That's the victim mentality here.
It's fair to say that Van Aert was the most complete rider in 2020-2022. He could literally do everything. Nothing in common with nations and all that.
Of course, that's not undeniable statement, but a very well reasoned one.
Undeniable statement is that Pogacar of now is the most complete cyclist in the last 40 years.

The funny thing is he could win everything but almost didn't win anything.
1 MSR and 1 SB to show
0 PR
0 RVV
0 stage races
0 WC
0 WC - cyclocross

Pogacar has a way better palmares between 2020-2022. And variety in that palmares, not just mountain stages. Gravel races, punchy climbs, high mountains, TTs, he almost beat MVP in the 2022 RVV. IMHO, he made a rookie mistake, he should have attacked MVP on Kwaremont and not on Paterberd but it was his first time there. I don't have any doubt he was slightly stronger than MVP. He showed a great ability on flat cobbles in the Tour so the only thing Pogacar could not win were sprint stages. WVA also couldn't beat climbers in a mountain stage, but not from the break but from the peloton against the best climbers. It's like saying Pogacar could win sprint stages because he won a flat stage from the break, and not against sprinters like Philipsen, Merlier, etc.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It's not about being a victim, it's about living in a society and knowing its reality.

Honestly, if Pogacar were Belgian, do you think he wouldn't have been treated differently? And would he have been considered sooner?
Not to mention other issues that can't be discussed here,but in another specific thread in the forum

In cycling there's always more condescension toward Belgians, Dutch, Italians, or British.
I don't mean this as a criticism; it's an observation, not a denial of reality. When there's a majority and historical roots, things are treated differently, and sport is no different. And as I say, cycling is a particularly chauvinistic sport rooted in history.

We live in a society where minorities constantly have to fight for their rights. It's not victimhood; it's a reality.

Of course. Belgium is the biggest nation in cycling. If Pogacar was belgian, he would be talked sooner for sure but it is what it is.
I think it has disadvantages and advantages. When you win, you are a god in your own country and you get talked since a very early age. But this can be bad too because you get a lot of hype and probably contracts but you need to perform since you are very young, this is why I think there are a lot of young belgian riders overhyped and overrated.

 

[YavorD]

The funny thing is he could win everything but almost didn't win anything.
1 MSR and 1 SB to show
0 PR
0 RVV
0 stage races
0 WC
0 WC - cyclocross

Pogacar has a way better palmares between 2020-2022. And variety in that palmares, not just mountain stages. Gravel races, punchy climbs, high mountains, TTs, he almost beat MVP in the 2022 RVV. IMHO, he made a rookie mistake, he should have attacked MVP on Kwaremont and not on Paterberd but it was his first time there. I don't have any doubt he was slightly stronger than MVP. He showed a great ability on flat cobbles in the Tour so the only thing Pogacar could notwin were sprint stages. WVA also couldn't beat climbers in a mountain stage, but not from the break but from the peloton against the best climbers. It's like saying Pogacar could win sprint stages because he won a flat stage from the break, and not against sprinters like Philipsen, Merlier, etc.

Yes, that's true. He wasn't goid enough to win it. But just because he didn't, it doesn't mean he couldn't.
Van Aert was better sprinter, better TTer, better classics rider (overall) and equal/better on easier hilly classics. Pogacar was the better climber, better stage racer and better on heavy hilly classics (although Van Aert beat him in the only 1 they raced against each other).

 

[Oldman]

Who is the greatest composer of all time? What about the greatest painter? Mathematician? Rock band? We think we know who the tallest person ever was, except we aren't sure since not all people have been measured in meters and recorded. And a certain great writer put it this way "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about". Pogi is a legend of cycling at 27 years old, he will be mentioned in any GOAT conversation for the next 50 years at least. There will be lists with him on top and lists with him in top 10. But he will be included in all of them. Cycling will be forever divided into "before", "during" and "after" Pogačar era. But it is his opponents, their own greatness, that will define his own. There is no Pogi without Vingegaard, MVDP and Evenepoel. All "ranking lists" I'm aware of lack this weighting factor, something like an ELO rating of chess players. Fischer vs Carlsen vs Kasparov is an easier comparison although they are from "different eras". It should be possible to calculate ELO of cyclists past and present.

Great points, all. The comparison to Composers is particularly apt as cycling, more than most athletics requires internal motivation. The conversations you have to motivate yourself are part of the performance and makes all of the greats different. The competitors each face have much to do with that motivation or it would only be TTs.

 

[Cycling111]

The funny thing is he could win everything but almost didn't win anything.
1 MSR and 1 SB to show
0 PR
0 RVV
0 stage races
0 WC
0 WC - cyclocross

Pogacar has a way better palmares between 2020-2022. And variety in that palmares, not just mountain stages. Gravel races, punchy climbs, high mountains, TTs, he almost beat MVP in the 2022 RVV. IMHO, he made a rookie mistake, he should have attacked MVP on Kwaremont and not on Paterberd but it was his first time there. I don't have any doubt he was slightly stronger than MVP. He showed a great ability on flat cobbles in the Tour so the only thing Pogacar could not win were sprint stages. WVA also couldn't beat climbers in a mountain stage, but not from the break but from the peloton against the best climbers. It's like saying Pogacar could win sprint stages because he won a flat stage from the break, and not against sprinters like Philipsen, Merlier, etc.

That's it. Pogacar proved to be skilled on gravel and cobblestones.
Pogacar couldn't win a massive sprint, but Van Aert couldn't compete a GC.

What I'm saying is that as soon as Van Aert won at Ventoux, he was immediately hailed as the best. Pogacar had to do much more to be considered.

But this is like denying that Remco's Liège wasn't considered that boring. Of course, it matters who does it and what nationality they have.
It's the world we live in. And as I say, cycling is a particularly chauvinistic sport and that lives off history.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yes, that's true. He wasn't goid enough to win it. But just because he didn't, it doesn't mean he couldn't.
Van Aert was better sprinter, better TTer, better classics rider (overall) and equal/better on easier hilly classics. Pogacar was the better climber, better stage racer and better on heavy hilly classics (although Van Aert beat him in the only 1 they raced against each other).

Yavor, this is what I told previously. He "could" but he "didn't"...

With WVA is always missing something. What was the reason for him to underperform in RVV 2021 for example? Asgreen won it and he is not an alien (he was very good though).

 

[Peyroteo94]

That's it. Pogacar proved to be skilled on gravel and cobblestones.
Pogacar couldn't win a massive sprint, but Van Aert couldn't compete a GC.

What I'm saying is that as soon as Van Aert won at Ventoux, he was immediately hailed as the best. Pogacar had to do much more to be considered.

But this is like denying that Remco's Liège wasn't considered that boring. Of course, it matters who does it and what nationality they have.
It's the world we live in. And as I say, cycling is a particularly chauvinistic sport and that lives off history.

This is spot on. A belgian rider wins a small race and he is the second coming of Merckx.
I still remember Sep Vanmarcke. Just because he followed Cancellara and finished 2nd in PR, Belgium went crazy like they found the new Boonen.
Nys is clearly a modern example of a overhyped belgian rider. His punch is very good and I think he can contest a FW in the future but winning monuments? No way.

 

[Peyroteo94]

During the Tour, we were discussing why Pogacar was using the Y1RS instead of the V5RS. It wasn't because they need to promote the Y1RS, they just made some changes and turned the bike lighter.

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2025-tour-de-france-tadej-pogacar-lightweight-colnago-y1rs

 

[Berniece]

Other thing very important: Pogacar had his nose in the wind since Mount Kigali (104 km left). IIRC Remco just put his nose with 66 km to the finish.

In what world? Are we completely forgetting the HUGE pulls Del Toro did for his captain?

Nonetheless was that article silly.

 

[Cycling111]

I don't think MVP will race after 2028.

Why not? This year he's been better than ever in his 30s. His climb level at Cipressa was impressive.

I don't think VDP will do any more TDFs. Their road schedules are half a year.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I don't think MVP will race after 2028.

But will Pogacar? It's him who talked like a burnt out grandpa not a long time ago.