Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[CyclistAbi]

If both Slovenians will do good this season. Then we might try some of that next year again.

P.S. And hopefully for the Tour to deliver.

 

[Extinction]

I believe 2011 to be a bit of a watershed. Albeit one where things bleed over for sure. So results that predate that are not high in my estimation whatsoever. One of the reasons I think very little of the Schleck brothers. If you look at it like that then Nibali definitely trumps Contador (and btw I am far from being a Nibali fan). It really has nothing to do with the amount of GTs they have won in total. I hope that at least explains how I look at things even if no one has to agree with me.

Fair enough, however, I completely disagree with your take on Nibali over Contador. The vintage of Nibali 2013 and 2014 was no less sensational than anything prior, while I don't know why 2011 was a "whatershed" given everything that came after.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I believe 2011 to be a bit of a watershed. Albeit one where things bleed over for sure. So results that predate that are not high in my estimation whatsoever. One of the reasons I think very little of the Schleck brothers. If you look at it like that then Nibali definitely trumps Contador (and btw I am far from being a Nibali fan). It really has nothing to do with the amount of GTs they have won in total. I hope that at least explains how I look at things even if no one has to agree with me.

Honestly it’s hard to get behind an assessment of 2011 as a watershed year given that Froome went from getting dropped by his team to 2nd on the road in the Vuelta overnight in…2011.

 

[Nick2413]

He went and did it again. Won in Spain.

He looks a bit skinnier this year

 

[Big Doopie]

Yes, and Froome was pack fodder until he suddenly became a cycling god overnight.

Indeed.

again 2011 was a watershed.

cheers.

 

[Big Doopie]

Fair enough, however, I completely disagree with your take on Nibali over Contador. The vintage of Nibali 2013 and 2014 was no less sensational than anything prior, while I don't know why 2011 was a "whatershed" given everything that came after.

Not sure what you are alluding to. However, going to stop here before I get banned again. Someone has a very short trigger when it comes to me. A monitor who I rarely agree with. Coincidence? Not so sure.

 

[Cookster15]

Pogacar did one of his best performances ever on col des spandelles and hautacam. He was in top shape. He also did a great final TT, he finished in third place.

Can you share data or link to support your assertion on the underline?

I still say Pog is a superior talent and will prevail over Vingegaard this year. To win grand tours you cannot shed nearly three minutes like Pog did on stage 11 and expect to win.

For an example, in the 2011 TdF, Alberto Contador set the race alight in the 3rd week (stages 16, 17 and 19 to the Alpe) and came 3rd in the stage 20 TT - but not enough to overcome his losses earlier in that edition.

On their teams, UAE seems stronger now I can't see JV being at the level they were in 2022 TdF.

 

[Didinho]

He will lose his win streak in stage 8 of the Tour de France.

 

[Nick2413]

We’re all familiar with the perfect game in baseball, but we may well be on our way to the first perfect season in cycling history.

 

[KZD]

We’re all familiar with the perfect game in baseball, but we may well be on our way to the first perfect season in cycling history.

2021 will be really hard to beat but if there is anyone who can beat Pogi, is the man himself.

 

[bNator]

He looks a bit skinnier this year

He is finally losing his baby fat. And his legs look like he’s doing some cycling at last… I hope the weight loss doesn’s affect his all-season performance peak.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar looks very strong and it's only February. If they didn't make a mistake of peaking too early and he still has reserves we may be in for a historical season. Then again, Pogacar was amazing last spring as well (albeit in March/early April)

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Strong performance by Pogi again, hopefully he isn’t peaking too early for an amazing July battle.

 

[Roku]

Pogi is a class of his own. Almost 50 pro wins in only four seasons and a month.

On their teams, UAE seems stronger now I can't see JV being at the level they were in 2022 TdF.

Jumbo still has Van Aert which honestly accounts for 3.

Pogi - Yates - Majka - McNulty - Soler - Wellens - Bjerg. Still missing one.
Vingegaard - Kuss - Kruijswijk - Van Aert - Van Baarle - Benoot - Laporte - Van Hooijdonck.

I think they will be quite on par, Jumbo will probably still have the edge over UAE. But it will be more balanced than 2022 TdF.

 

[Panda Claws]

Froome and Nibali above Armstrong "by far"? What? I know he was a jerk and everything but he did win the tour 7 times in a row plus WC etc. Considering the clinic rules it's hard to discuss him but we all know what everyone was doing during that era. He was still the best of his generation. Even during his comeback he got a 3rd place against the new generation. Feels kinda weird saying that about that douchebag but as an athlete he wasn't worse than Froome/Nibali/Contador.

Yeah it's hard to rate Armstrong but I think he will be somewhat rehabilitated as time washes away douchebaggery.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Anyone knows Pogi's numbers from today? He got 40-50 seconds gap over the best riders quickly and his advantage over the rest was twice as big.

 

[Andy schleck]

Can you share data or link to support your assertion on the underline?

I still say Pog is a superior talent and will prevail over Vingegaard this year. To win grand tours you cannot shed nearly three minutes like Pog did on stage 11 and expect to win.

For an example, in the 2011 TdF, Alberto Contador set the race alight in the 3rd week (stages 16, 17 and 19 to the Alpe) and came 3rd in the stage 20 TT - but not enough to overcome his losses earlier in that edition.

On their teams, UAE seems stronger now I can't see JV being at the level they were in 2022 TdF.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550255451748679681

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1550255451748679681?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1550255451748679681%7Ctwgr%5E2071bf706aefccfe3fd42c5a778a5e3ec2608bdf%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.cyclingnews.com%2Fthreads%2Fpower-data-estimates-for-the-climbing-stages.8839%2Fpage-154

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550581142692274182

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1550581142692274182


6.1 w/kg during 30 minutes+ almost 6.1 w/kg on hautacam during almost 40 min is a top performance by pogacar.
We are talking about 30+37 min (hautacam)= 1 hour and seven minutes on a average of 6.1 w/kg, in a stage with 4000 vertical meters, after 17 stages.

Like I said, this was a top performance, and we should give credit to vingegaard being able to beat this alien called pogacar.

 

[Andy schleck]

Anyone knows Pogi's numbers from today? He got 40-50 seconds gap over the best riders quickly and his advantage over the rest was twice as big.

6.5 w/kg during almost 20 min. Vintage pogacar.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625899026263547904

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1625899026263547904

 

[Krzysztof_O]

6.1 w/kg during 30 minutes+ almost 6.1 w/kg on hautacam during almost 40 min is a top performance by pogacar.
We are talking about 30+37 min (hautacam)= 1 hour and seven minutes on a average of 6.1 w/kg, in a stage with 4000 vertical meters, after 17 stages.

Like I said, this was a top performance, and we should give credit to vingegaard being able to beat this alien called pogacar.

Nah, Pogacar did Romme & Colombiere consecutive climbs (with just a few minutes of break) at an average VAM of almost 1800 m/h and power of 6.22-6.42 w/kg. That's like 50 mins of (mostly) solo climbing at over 6.3 w/kg with only a very short break (much shorter than in the Pyrenees) and in terrible cold weather. He also did PDBF at about 6.3 w/kg for nearly an hour. That's alien Pogacar and he absolutely crushed the rest.

 

[Cookster15]

Pogi is a class of his own. Almost 50 pro wins in only four seasons and a month.



Jumbo still has Van Aert which honestly accounts for 3.

Pogi - Yates - Majka - McNulty - Soler - Wellens - Bjerg. Still missing one.
Vingegaard - Kuss - Kruijswijk - Van Aert - Van Baarle - Benoot - Laporte - Van Hooijdonck.

I think they will be quite on par, Jumbo will probably still have the edge over UAE. But it will be more balanced than 2022 TdF.

Thanks. My point is the bold. Plus, if Pog doesn't make the tactical errors he did on stage 12 chasing every move by Roglic wasting huge energy then that means its game on. He only has one rider to mark and that is Vingegaard.

 

[Extinction]

Froome and Nibali above Armstrong "by far"? What? I know he was a jerk and everything but he did win the tour 7 times in a row plus WC etc. Considering the clinic rules it's hard to discuss him but we all know what everyone was doing during that era. He was still the best of his generation. Even during his comeback he got a 3rd place against the new generation. Feels kinda weird saying that about that douchebag but as an athlete he wasn't worse than Froome/Nibali/Contador.

As I like to say, although I have been derided for it: it's the economy of sport. So long as the cash cow can be milked, it will be. Come what may, but once you enter into a pro system, ability at the high end, not necessarily the best, combined with "marketability" and effort, as well as the most advanced system, does wonders.

 

[Andy schleck]

Nah, Pogacar did Romme & Colombiere consecutive climbs (with just a few minutes of break) at an average VAM of almost 1800 m/h and power of 6.22-6.42 w/kg. That's like 50 mins of (mostly) solo climbing at over 6.3 w/kg with only a very short break (much shorter than in the Pyrenees) and in terrible cold weather. He also did PDBF at about 6.3 w/kg for nearly an hour. That's alien Pogacar and he absolutely crushed the rest.

Romme&colombiere was a bit different, in different conditions. It was a 45 min effort on average of 6.3 w/kg, in the first week of the tour. Cold weather is better for pogi.


Actually he did PDBF at 6.7 w/kg. But it's a different effort. It was a TT.

 

[Extinction]

So Pog just drilled it yet again. Impressive, since he and his ontourage can't be thinking other than this is only the beginning. How many months will, can, it last, or is the growth potential still a plenty?

 

[JosefK]

If this is the form-building phase, watch out!

 

[Red Rick]

Nah, Pogacar did Romme & Colombiere consecutive climbs (with just a few minutes of break) at an average VAM of almost 1800 m/h and power of 6.22-6.42 w/kg. That's like 50 mins of (mostly) solo climbing at over 6.3 w/kg with only a very short break (much shorter than in the Pyrenees) and in terrible cold weather. He also did PDBF at about 6.3 w/kg for nearly an hour. That's alien Pogacar and he absolutely crushed the rest.

I really don't know how important the recovery is between climbs so I hate to compare performances like that.