Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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Valv.Piti said:
Why are we always discounting Valverde so hard? Only good competition was Roglic? Excuse me, Valverde was a flying in that Vuelta (like always) and Lopez is no slouch either, Quintana fell off, but the level at that Vuelta wasn't that bad and if you can solo away on the last stage of the race like Pogacar, its legit no matter the competition almost. That was an incredible performance, he got nothing awarded, he was just straight up the best rider by far that day which shows signs of a future GT winner for sure.
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Valverde also dropped Bernal once in the Tour, but to be fair to Bernal that was such low altitude he can't be expected to win.

Or he would've won if he tried I never know.
 
Gigs_98

Gigs_98

Feb 18, 2015
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Just saying, Mas finished ahead of Valverde while Pogacar didn't. Valverde last year also really wasn't flying he was just the same guy he usually is in the vuelta, just that for the first time in years there was only one guy who beat him.

Seriously, a lot has to happen to convince me last years Vuelta field wasn't just really bad.
 
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Valv.Piti

Valv.Piti

Aug 3, 2015
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Valverde was much better in 2019 Vuelta compared to 2018, so that cannot be used as an argument for Mas. Valverde cracked the last 2 days in that Vuelta where as in 2019 he was actually more or less as good as Roglic uphill.
 
SafeBet

SafeBet

Sep 2, 2011
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Why is Vuelta taken as the only reference point for Pogacar's level? His results in stage races since turning pro with UAE are the following: 13-1-6-1-4-3 (Vuelta)-1-2-4.
Are you guys questioning his recovery? You don't think his incredible consistency in one week stage races could translate to GTs? Because he sure looked like someone with a great recovery in last year's Vuelta third week.
 
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Gigs_98

Gigs_98

Feb 18, 2015
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Valv.Piti said:
Valverde was much better in 2019 Vuelta compared to 2018, so that cannot be used as an argument for Mas. Valverde cracked the last 2 days in that Vuelta where as in 2019 he was actually more or less as good as Roglic uphill.
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Much rather less than more though. He got a headstart in the Andorra stage due to Roglic's crash but Roglic caught him anyway, he then lost about half a minute on two of the three remaining mountain top finishes and finished same time as Roglic in the third. I guess you could point at Valverde gaining a handful of seconds when Roglic cruised to the finish line on stage 20, but that's it. It's true Valverde cracked towards the end of the 2018 edition, but that only really cost him much time on stage 20 and Mas was already very close to him before that. I'd argue before the last two mountain stages Valverde was easily as good in 2018 as in 2019. Anyway, I don't actually want to get into discussions about how good Valverde was in 2019 compared to other years (I know I brought that up myself, probably shouldn't have) I just think him being there shouldn't be used as an argument for how good the field of that race was.

(Also I just want to add here that I have claimed multiple times that Roglic himself is overrated. Now whether that's true or not we'll see soon enough, just keep it in mind when I don't rate some performances in last years Vuelta as highly as others)

SafeBet said:
Why is Vuelta taken as the only reference point for Pogacar's level? His results in stage races since turning pro with UAE are the following: 13-1-6-1-4-3 (Vuelta)-1-2-4.
Are you guys questioning his recovery? You don't think his incredible consistency in one week stage races could translate to GTs? Because he sure looked like someone with a great recovery in last year's Vuelta third week.
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Well the discussion started with the argument that Pogacar might have peaked super early. The counter argument was that reference points of early peaking climbers, like Gesink or Mollema, never showed the same peak level of performance Pogacar has shown. To that I answered that I don't think the peak level he has shown so far is actually that great, pointing towards the Vuelta field. Now if you want to argue it doesn't matter because he has crushed it in other stage races as well you are free to do so, I just don't think they are better examples for his peak performance than the Vuelta, the race he actually peaked for.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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Gigs_98 said:
I have claimed multiple times that Roglic himself is overrated.
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Overall i don't feel Roglič is overrated. His performance in the past year or so is stellar. Whatever race he enters, he basically needs to win it or he basically lost. Finishing third on Giro, regardless if we agree of the reasons, is still a great achievement.

P.S. As for Pogačar, he is 21 and is constantly considered to be one of the favorites. Hence i don't feel he is overrated. Currently he is a legit contender for becoming a future GT winner!
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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Roglic peaks for the TdF last year he wins it with eyes closed. I think you can make also make arguments for all 3 GTs last year having weak fields due to form issues and freak crashes and incidents, but w/e

Carapaz cranks out a solo in the Giro, is shoehorned in as outsider while having no TT. Bernal is mythical climber without even having to complete the raid. Then Pog does a similar solo putting the same time into his opponents on easier climbs and suddenly his competition was weak.
 
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topcat

topcat

Jul 4, 2016
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Red Rick said:
Roglic peaks for the TdF last year he wins it with eyes closed. I think you can make also make arguments for all 3 GTs last year having weak fields due to form issues and freak crashes and incidents, but w/e

Carapaz cranks out a solo in the Giro, is shoehorned in as outsider while having no TT. Bernal is mythical climber without even having to complete the raid. Then Pog does a similar solo putting the same time into his opponents on easier climbs and suddenly his competition was weak.
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He'll be a fine domestique for Aru
 
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Escarabajo

Escarabajo

Apr 16, 2009
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Red Rick said:
Roglic peaks for the TdF last year he wins it with eyes closed. I think you can make also make arguments for all 3 GTs last year having weak fields due to form issues and freak crashes and incidents, but w/e

Carapaz cranks out a solo in the Giro, is shoehorned in as outsider while having no TT. Bernal is mythical climber without even having to complete the raid. Then Pog does a similar solo putting the same time into his opponents on easier climbs and suddenly his competition was weak.
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A>B and B>C therefore A>C

This theory has been broken many times in the past. Because such is life. If we play the "if" game Pinot and Porte would have been Tour champions by now.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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Sciatic said:
Ah, all the top Slovenian riders have that letter somewhere in their names?
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More by a chance and not all, but indeed. And a bit unrelated, but Dončić has one too. I have seen a lot of NBA oriented videos, on how America is learning to pronounce č, getting good at it. It currently looks like č is there to stay in western media.

P.S. Don't take too serious what i wrote above.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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As for Pogačar, and as it looks like Aru can't cope with favorites. Regarding Tour, plan A for me would be stick close to Roglič, as long as you can. Try to make your team to work for you. If that for whatever reason fails, plan B being, try to win a stage.
 
O

Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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CyclistAbi said:
As for Pogačar, and as it looks like Aru can't cope with favorites. Regarding Tour, plan A for me would be stick close to Roglič, as long as you can. Try to make your team to work for you. If that for whatever reason fails, plan B being, try to win a stage.
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Tadej has worked this angle and it seems to work. Especially since you rarely see another UAE jersey in the action when it gets really heated. Aru is so busy fighting himself and his bike that he's almost a non-factor. It'd be great if he returned to his breakthrough form and became a solid ally with Pogacar but this Tour won't allow for mistakes. There will be more anxious, twitchy and crash-prone mistakes than the races we've seen so far. Getting out of the first week alive will be every contender's goal.
 
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Lequack

Lequack

Jul 10, 2014
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Egc10ARXkAA56-0
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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Today there was a documentary about Roglič aired on Slovenian national TV. Two anecdotes worth sharing, concerning nationals. Regarding TT, Roglič wanted to win but didn't have the legs for it. Pogačar hence won fair and square. As for the road race. Pogačar said, if i am not mistaken, a fan from alongside the road screamed, watch out, Roglič attacked, and Pogačar thought to himself, well yeah, i can obviously see that too (but not much i can do about it).

It's nice to see Pogačar and Roglič being on good terms.
 
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