Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[theyoungest]

Super strange take. Pogacar being compatitive and not showing too much weakness before the TDF does not equate to being overconfident.

Even so, he still said Vingegaard was the favorite .

I really don't understand how Pogacar should have acted in your book.

He definitely acted like a d.ck regarding Van Aert. It was uncalled for, and it shows a bit of overconfidence IMHO. Joke about Van Aert all you want, he's still a very good rider who can hurt you, and today he sort of did.

 

[Aimar16]

No it isn't. They just antecipated Vingegaard's dominance. If not today, it would be tomorrow or at stage 9.

If it wasn't for the yellow jersey they wouldn't have had to be out front all day and Yates wasn't just chilling behind Pog the whole time.

 

[theyoungest]

Yates' yellow jersey is the worst thing that may have happened to them

I watched back the last time they rode the Marie-Blanque, and guess who was in yellow then, and got dropped like a sack of sh.t. Apparently this is not really a climb that suits Adam Yates, which is actually quite surprising.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Vingegaard is to Pogacar what Armstrong was to Ullrich: an older guy who comes out of nowhere and completely destroys him.

 

[Aimar16]

Doesn't matter one bit. If they didn't ride hard the entire day, Jonas would have had Benoot and Van Aert in the valley and we are talking 1.30.

All this pseudo tactical stuff doesn't mean jack when Vingegaard is just THIS much stronger.

But Yates might have been more useful had he not been watching Pog's back the whole time

 

[Elos Anjos]

Super strange take. Pogacar being compatitive and not showing too much weakness before the TDF does not equate to being overconfident.

Even so, he still said Vingegaard was the favorite .

I really don't understand how Pogacar should have acted in your book.

I'm having trouble conceiving how Pogacar can go to the Tour if only because he believes he can win it.
The fact that his form is bad is showing, so going to the Tour can only be justified - save for sponsors - by overestimating your capabilities while underestimating your opponents's: that's overconfidence.

 

[Elos Anjos]

No... why would he say he felt really bad about this preparation before the race even starts. Of course, a rider wont downplay himself like that. Everyone knew it was always gonna be tough anyway but if he had no belief or not willing to go to the biggest race in world, he shouldnt have started at all.

He still seems to be in good enough form that he can podium or win a couple of stages.

It is also still a long way to go. Maybe he will ride himself into better form or something happens to Vingegaard. Maybe Pog drops out. Who knows.

Joining the Tour with worse form than last year and believing you can deliver is overconfidence.

 

[Jan the Man]

Vingegaard is to Pogacar what Armstrong was to Ullrich: an older guy who comes out of nowhere and completely destroys him.

I think that is a little over dramatic 😁.

 

[Salvarani]

Joining the Tour with worse form than last year and believing you can deliver is overconfidence.

Thats just how you interpret it.

I dont think he had much of a choice. The plan was always going to the Tour.

His crash and the injury he suffered was a major set-back, but not enough to rule him out. They stuck with the plan and was gonna hope for the best.

Everyone wanted another duel between Vinge and Pog. In some ways his participation is way bigger than even himself. It is key for the sport, the spectacle and the race. Even if he is only at 95% or if he would have been at 99-100%, which still might not have been enough given Vingegaards peak form that that he is in atm.

Saying in the media or interviews beforehand that he dont know where he was at, or he that he would have had a small chance of winning would have been to concede before it even starts. That would have been a terrible build-up towards the race, if his crash and injury already wasnt. He probably shouldnt have started at all, if he would have said those things in public, but that is not what seems to be the character of Tadej. Hence why he probably tried to be somewhat up-beat and positive regarding his chances to not kill the race before it even starts, for many different reasons. It is not over-confidence. How you would feel that way or want to say that is what it is... is probably your own bias coming into play more than anything.

Vingegaard was monstrous today and is likely to win it, but anything could still happen. Ask Simon Yates. Ask Roglic. Things can happen in a race, where someone is looking unbeatable.

 

[Miha81]

Even that he wint be able to, Jumbo is not going to let him.

He is just going to win a few sprints if he is lucky.

If Kuss can follow you on climb and you lose additional half minute on downhill and flat you clearly are not in top shape.

 

[Salvarani]

If Kuss can follow you on climb and you lose additional half minute on downhill and flat you clearly are not in top shape.

Not in top shape at the moment, but could get better. Hopefully it gets better for the sake of the race.

It looked really bad for Froome in the Giro of 2018, at one point, but he pulled that one back didnt he?

Vingegaard is the man to beat for everyone now, not just Pog.

 

[theyoungest]

If Kuss can follow you on climb and you lose additional half minute on downhill and flat you clearly are not in top shape.

It's probably a combination of a less-than-ideal preparation and the fact that you find Kuss and Vingegaard on their preferred terrain (not even perfect for them, altitude and heat would be even better). If Pogi's lack of training was going to show anywhere it would be here. Even in absolute top shape he would have struggled.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Maybe it's the difference of one guy solely targeting TdF and the other guy doing every race in the calendar before the tour. Still a lot left.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Maybe it's the difference of one guy solely targeting TdF and the other guy doing every race in the calendar before the tour. Still a lot left.

I wonder if UAE team is not doing something a bit stupid. I just saw the interview with the Performance Director Inigo Millan.

And he basically said something along the lines of " We're making Pogacar peak everywhere and we're already preparing for next year calendar, even right now before the tDf even started, we're already thinking for 2024 calendar "

vs

Jumbo team and Vingo who are like " The only important thing for us (concerning Vingo) is this tDF, nothing else matters ".

You don't beat Vingegaard, unless it's your main focus.

Winning monuments over MVP and WVA is great, but now he's already done it. IMO, for Pogacar legacy now he should focus on beating Vingegaard. This should be his main career mission for the moment.

 

[Elos Anjos]

I wonder if UAE team is not doing something a bit stupid. I just saw the interview with the Performance Director Inigo Millan.

And he basically said something along the lines of " We're making Pogacar peak everywhere and we're already preparing for next year calendar, even right now before the tDf even started, we're already thinking for 2024 calendar "

vs

Jumbo team and Vingo who are like " The only important thing for us (concerning Vingo) is this tDF, nothing else matters ".

You don't beat Vingegaard, unless it's your main focus.

Winning monuments over MVP and WVA is great, but now he's already done it. IMO, for Pogacar legacy now he should focus on beating Vingegaard. This should be his main career mission for the moment.

That's interesting. I think he should do the Giro/Vuelta next year though, nail that and return after establishing his aready legendary legacy.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

I wonder if UAE team is not doing something a bit stupid. I just saw the interview with the Performance Director Inigo Millan.

And he basically said something along the lines of " We're making Pogacar peak everywhere and we're already preparing for next year calendar, even right now before the tDf even started, we're already thinking for 2024 calendar "

vs

Jumbo team and Vingo who are like " The only important thing for us (concerning Vingo) is this tDF, nothing else matters ".

You don't beat Vingegaard, unless it's your main focus.

Winning monuments over MVP and WVA is great, but now he's already done it. IMO, for Pogacar legacy now he should focus on beating Vingegaard. This should be his main career mission for the moment.

I think this is a very gt-centric view. He already has two tours. If his legacy ends up being 2 tours, a Giro and a couple of Vueltas mixed with a WC or 2, 3-5 LBLs another Flandern or 2, and maybe even a PR and MSR that would be a legacy more impressive (if you value flexibility) than spending the remainder of your career perhaps beating Vingegaard once or twice

 

[Skalman]

Different levels unfortunately

 

[Elos Anjos]

I wonder if UAE team is not doing something a bit stupid. I just saw the interview with the Performance Director Inigo Millan.

And he basically said something along the lines of " We're making Pogacar peak everywhere and we're already preparing for next year calendar, even right now before the tDf even started, we're already thinking for 2024 calendar "

vs

Jumbo team and Vingo who are like " The only important thing for us (concerning Vingo) is this tDF, nothing else matters ".

You don't beat Vingegaard, unless it's your main focus.

Winning monuments over MVP and WVA is great, but now he's already done it. IMO, for Pogacar legacy now he should focus on beating Vingegaard. This should be his main career mission for the moment.

Additionaly, Pogacar races like that because he has fun doing it, which contrast with Vingo's approach to racing.

 

[theyoungest]

Maybe it's the difference of one guy solely targeting TdF and the other guy doing every race in the calendar before the tour. Still a lot left.

People keep saying this, but do any of you actually follow any of the races he does? It's just objectively nonsensical. Vingegaard has won 3 stage races this year and podiumed in another. What do you mean, solely targeting the Tour?

 

[geisterhome]

Vingegaard is to Pogacar what Armstrong was to Ullrich: an older guy who comes out of nowhere and completely destroys him.

I firmly believe that pogacar could beat a peak Vinegaard also at the Tour, but that won't happen as long as pog is racing that much during spring.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Even with top prep Vingegaard is just the better pure GT/stage-racer.

Yet, I'd like to see if Pogi does a full TDF focus and skips classics and stuff. Just high intensity focus on getting at his best on longer climbs as well. Just to see if he can beat Vinge. He won't be able to beat Vinge if he does a full classics program again.

 

[pelotonIQ]

People keep saying this, but do any of you actually follow any of the races he does? It's just objectively nonsensical. Vingegaard has won 3 stage races this year and podiumed in another. What do you mean, solely targeting the Tour?

Solely targeting the tour means setting up your season and training optimally in order to have your maximum peak at the tour.

Are you one of those that do not believe in fatigue? Take a look at which races they did during Mars and April.

 

[Rackham]

Even with top prep Vingegaard is just the better pure GT/stage-racer.

Yet, I'd like to see if Pogi does a full TDF focus and skips classics and stuff. Just high intensity focus on getting at his best on longer climbs as well. Just to see if he can beat Vinge. He won't be able to beat Vinge if he does a full classics program again.

UAE's tactics are just awful.

I mean seriously... they raced as if they had the best rider in the Tour. There's no reason to pace behind Hindley, none. Let Jumbo or FDJ or someone else wake up to the Hindley threat they created themselves.

Even if UAE truly believed Pog was better, there should have been just enough doubt (especially considering Vingegaard's form in the Dauphiné) to not risk deploying the team in the chase & just sit behind.

So it's not just Pog who has to be better, it's his entire team (especially whomever the DS is).

 

[Gigs_98]

I don't think he's this much better, no. Preparation matter, and his preparation wasn't optimal whereas Jonas' was. Acting as that doesn't matter is quite disingenuous, and we can only speculate how much (if any) the difference would have been with a 100% Pogacar on this climb.

I mean yeah, Pogacar's preparation wasn't ideal. He is surely lacking a bit but my point is that this bit is negligibly small. I just don't see how this result doesn't perfectly fit into the picture that was painted last year. And mostly I'm already annoyed at people talking about how this years Tour result isn't representative at all and that once Pogacar is fully healthy he will surely crush Vingegaard.

I think it's also worth mentioning that I'm still rooting for Pog and I still won't 100% rule out Pogacar winning this Tour. Pog is the kind of rider who I absolutely trust to take advantage of any weakness by Vingegaard and little things can always go wrong. Vingegaard might have peaked a little early, he might have a bad day or he might crash. The Tour is still open. All I'm saying is that at some point people will have to start admitting that Vingegaard is simply a better pure climber.

 

[Salvarani]

I mean yeah, Pogacar's preparation wasn't ideal. He is surely lacking a bit but my point is that this bit is negligibly small. I just don't see how this result doesn't perfectly fit into the picture that was painted last year. And mostly I'm already annoyed at people talking about how this years Tour result isn't representative at all and that once Pogacar is fully healthy he will surely crush Vingegaard.

I think it's also worth mentioning that I'm still rooting for Pog and I still won't 100% rule out Pogacar winning this Tour. Pog is the kind of rider who I absolutely trust to take advantage of any weakness by Vingegaard and little things can always go wrong. Vingegaard might have peaked a little early, he might have a bad day or he might crash. The Tour is still open. All I'm saying is that at some point people will have to start admitting that Vingegaard is simply a better pure climber.

I dont know where people has said that Pog was that much of a better climber than Vingegaard?

Since last years Tour, very few has downplayed Vingegaards ability to climb and that he was the favorite to win again. Pog the underdog, despite injury or not.