Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[houtdffan]

Fignon 2.0 is spot on

Got his 2 early TDF wins when the competition was weak. Also got very lucky in 2021 that SVA didn't do his job on Ventoux

 

[SHAD0W93]

Fignon 2.0 is spot on

Got his 2 early TDF wins when the competition was weak. Also got very lucky in 2021 that SVA didn't do his job on Ventoux

Vingegaard was over 5 minutes behind and didn’t put any time into Pog until he took it easy in the TT. Vinge gained a total of 12 seconds on Pog in the third week, hardly ground breaking or showing superior recovery.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Vinge's level yesterday was absurd, probably approaching 6.9 w/kg for 20 minutes. Even absolutely the best version of Pog would've lost by a few dozen of seconds methinks. Today it was sth else and it was maybe associated with not enough preparation for a 3-week race. Freshness helped him for 2 weeks but not anymore.

There's a big difference between saying Pogacar at his absolute best would've lost at least some time to that version of Vingegaard, and the line that Pogacar losing 1.38 was the best effort he's capable of because everyone else lost a lot more. After seeing him blow up that badly the next day you'd think people would change their tunes on Pogacar's TT, but apparently that's too much to ask.

 

[Savant12]

I hear "Covid" being thrown around on the internetsphere as a reason for Pog's recent meltdown.

 

[Rob5091]

I wouldn't be surprised if he was mentally switched off after ITT. That was a big beating, even if the plan before the stage today was to attack the will to fight was certainly not as high as before the previous stages.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ta...l-de-granon-stage-in-the-2022-tour-de-france/
"As for the exact reason why, Matxin said it remained unclear but doctors had said there was no question of it being an illness. Morale, he admitted had not been high after Tuesday’s time trial, or as he put it, “after losing 1:40, he was not starting in a great place either”.
"Matxin said that UAE had gone into the Tour’s last Alpine stage with the aim of turning the race around and for that reason they had put two riders in the large early break.
“But as soon as we got to the second climb of the day [Cornet de Roseland], Tadej started saying he didn’t feel good and we had to switch things around, bring some riders back.”

If Pogacar was feeling bad as early as on Roseland (which started after 50 km from the start) then something was amiss physically. Which makes me wonder how he felt during the TT, but UAE say they were going to attack which means they thought Pogacar was ok. Maybe it was wishful thinking and Pogacar being his optimistic self, thought once he started riding he'd be fine.
What happened on the team bus after the TT would be very interesting to know going from the comment about morale. The very questionable decision about the bike change and then being beaten by so much obviously must have lead to questions being asked.

 

[Gigs_98]

Such a sad end to this almighty battle. It's weird to say this but at least Vingegaard had that all time TT. Imagine Vingegaard had underperformed in the TT. Cracking like this while wearing yellow would have been absolutely tragic

 

[meat puppet]

As long as the myth of the new merckx is preserved, all is well in the fan department. Come March, Pog is da best ever and Vingo will be portrayed as a clueless fluke once again.

For the sake of having an actual competition, I hope UAE &Pog are wiser than their fans and dream up something new.

I don't like Pog's public persona or ability to dominate all kinds of races one bit, but this tour he went down fighting and I respect that.

 

[Rob5091]

After watching Horner and Gaimon, they're both saying the crash (which happened before the Roseland climb when Pogacar was saying to the team car he was not feeling good) was the thing that really did Pogacar in. After the crash, 2 weeks full gas racing caught up with him, regardless of how good the fuelling was.

 

[tretiak]

I hear "Covid" being thrown around on the internetsphere as a reason for Pog's recent meltdown.

Everything was bad. It's like a tornado of excuses for his race.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I hear "Covid" being thrown around on the internetsphere as a reason for Pog's recent meltdown.

That’s just crazy since there were the covidnrumors last year since he had teammates leave sick, and I think they tested positive but don’t quite remember.

 

[Rob5091]

In another interview, we hear about Pogacar's "morale",
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...finish-second-in-the-tour-in-his-current-form

In an interview with WielerFlits, UAE Team Emirates team manager Mauro Gianetti accepts the defeat.
"It was a very difficult day for Tadej with the crash in the beginning, which also hit his morale. It wasn't good physically either. The Tadej we saw today is not Tadej."

 

[Trofonios]

We all know the assumption by now: if Pog just focus on the tour, is injury-free, doesn't attack too much and ride smarter, eat well and doesn't crash during a hard stage, then he wins the tour. Doesn't really matter if Vinge is on a extremely high level. Pog is Pog, the best (also funny and likeable)!

 

[Peter von]

After watching Horner and Gaimon, they're both saying the crash (which happened before the Roseland climb when Pogacar was saying to the team car he was not feeling good) was the thing that really did Pogacar in. After the crash, 2 weeks full gas racing caught up with him, regardless of how good the fuelling was.

yeah makes sense, that you really get pushed over the edge by a crash like that.

But yeah, he is still on track to having the best season of all the WT riders. Sad for him the worlds comes so soon after the Tour though.

We all know the assumption by now: if Pog just focus on the tour, is injury-free, doesn't attack too much, eat well and doesn't crash during a hard stage, then he wins the tour. Doesn't really matter if Vinge is on a extremely high level. Pog is Pog, the best (also funny and likeable)!

I am exited to see Pogi next year, if he goes more for classics, the same or less. Or just if he doesn't break any bones before they finish the next Tour. I know we talked about "maybe it's an advantage" but if that was true INEOS would have an annual bonebreaking session to prep for the Tour by now.

Pogi 100% focused on the Tour seems most logical right now, just do Liege and Fleche like normal GC riders and logic dictates he'll gain a few % and that's a lot in 3 weeks.
But yeah Pogi is gonna Pogi, He is one random stummach flu to Vingegaard away from winning both Flanders and the Tour in the same season if he carries on with current programme (Ayoso, Roglic and Remco migh have a say here).

 

[Miha81]

In another interview, we hear about Pogacar's "morale",
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...finish-second-in-the-tour-in-his-current-form

In an interview with WielerFlits, UAE Team Emirates team manager Mauro Gianetti accepts the defeat.
"It was a very difficult day for Tadej with the crash in the beginning, which also hit his morale. It wasn't good physically either. The Tadej we saw today is not Tadej."

He was not his best on Sunday and some signs of fatigue were already there. He did not look at best on Tuesday's ITT although I do not think even his best would bring him yellow jersey the way Vinge nailed it. I guess it was combination of low base, third week fatigue and tuesday's blow to morale that resulted in yesterday's performance.

I think if he will somehow get things together he will try to compete for Saturday's stage win to finish TDF on high note but it is a long shot.

 

[Bolder]

He was not his best on Sunday and some signs of fatigue were already there. He did not look at best on Tuesday's ITT although I do not think even his best would bring him yellow jersey the way Vinge nailed it. I guess it was combination of low base, third week fatigue and tuesday's blow to morale that resulted in yesterday's performance.

I think if he will somehow get things together he will try to compete for Saturday's stage win to finish TDF on high note but it is a long shot.

I think it was a confluence of factors that led to him cracking so dramatically. Although I think his wrist injury was the least of them, because taking some time off was probably a good thing after his heavy spring schedule. Obviously Vingegaard is absolutely flying right now, but they were just seconds apart after a few heavy mountain stages. Pog looked marginally (i.e. seconds) weaker on the Morzine stage; the ITT was further proof that he maybe was not at JV's level. But then the early crash took more out of him (watch it again, he hit the deck really hard).

In a brutally hard -- and very hot in the valleys, plus direct sun -- stage like yesterday, if you're off by 1-2%, you're going to lose minutes. I rode a lot of that stage in the 2019 Etape du Tour and by the time I'd gotten to the base of Longefoy, I was at a point where the slightest problem or forced change of pace would have had me in the red instantly.

We shall see if this is a hole he can dig out of, or not. I wouldn't read too, too much into it.

I think a healthy, confident Pog is still 1 minute-1:30 behind JV after Loze, either way.

 

[Aimar16]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ta...l-de-granon-stage-in-the-2022-tour-de-france/
"As for the exact reason why, Matxin said it remained unclear but doctors had said there was no question of it being an illness. Morale, he admitted had not been high after Tuesday’s time trial, or as he put it, “after losing 1:40, he was not starting in a great place either”.
"Matxin said that UAE had gone into the Tour’s last Alpine stage with the aim of turning the race around and for that reason they had put two riders in the large early break.
“But as soon as we got to the second climb of the day [Cornet de Roseland], Tadej started saying he didn’t feel good and we had to switch things around, bring some riders back.”

If Pogacar was feeling bad as early as on Roseland (which started after 50 km from the start) then something was amiss physically. Which makes me wonder how he felt during the TT, but UAE say they were going to attack which means they thought Pogacar was ok. Maybe it was wishful thinking and Pogacar being his optimistic self, thought once he started riding he'd be fine.
What happened on the team bus after the TT would be very interesting to know going from the comment about morale. The very questionable decision about the bike change and then being beaten by so much obviously must have lead to questions being asked.

He also lost his cool on Col de Joux Plane. He raced like a complete idiot there. For two weeks he was riding completely on the limit and I don't think he left much in the ITT and it was still a big handicap. When you know that your best isn't enough to win it totally drains your energy and motivation. Last year he might have thought it was a fluke, but when it happens to you twice in a row you start to doubt yourself.

 

[Miha81]

I think a healthy, confident Pog is still 1 minute-1:30 behind JV after Loze, either way.

Unfortunately me to and I am big fan of him. The way ITT was riden Pogi in best shape loses at least half of minute. They will have to go back to drawing board if they want to win TDF 2024.

 

[RedheadDane]

Ever since 2015, he's had a grand total of 10 DNFs, + the DNS of the 2021 FW, when the entire team had to pull out because of a positive Covid test from one of the riders.

 

[tretiak]

He will focus on one-day races. There, his attack cycling works and he does not risk exhaustion as he does in 3 week races.

 

[Rackham]

GCN said today at Vinge has the highest VO2 max of any sportsman in the world ...not sure how they knew that

They didn't know anything. That number is a fantasy fairy-tale which some media ran with because it made everything look more 'acceptable' to casual viewers.

There's a big difference between saying Pogacar at his absolute best would've lost at least some time to that version of Vingegaard, and the line that Pogacar losing 1.38 was the best effort he's capable of because everyone else lost a lot more. After seeing him blow up that badly the next day you'd think people would change their tunes on Pogacar's TT, but apparently that's too much to ask.

The other theory is Pog went so deep for two weeks, i.e. culminating in going very deep in the ITT, that he literally exploded physically the day after. So it's not impossible that his ITT was a very good performance but the blowback on Wednesday (with both the physical & mental strain + his crash) was just way too much for him to handle, so he blew up.

Now Jumbo have a blueprint for future editions: get the team on the front & drill, drill & drill some more all day every day until everyone is physically liquidated (Pog & the rest of the peloton included).

So the people who said that was the right tactic were right... although whether this will make Jumbo any friends or fans going forwards is another matter altogether. I'm very curious to see where the sport (& Tour) goes over the coming few years.

 

[JimPanzen]

They didn't know anything. That number is a fantasy fairy-tale which some media ran with because it made everything look more 'acceptable' to casual viewers.



The other theory is Pog went so deep for two weeks, i.e. culminating in going very deep in the ITT, that he literally exploded physically the day after. So it's not impossible that his ITT was a very good performance but the blowback on Wednesday (with both the physical & mental strain + his crash) was just way too much for him to handle, so he blew up.

Now Jumbo have a blueprint for future editions: get the team on the front & drill, drill & drill some more all day every day until everyone is physically liquidated (Pog & the rest of the peloton included).

So the people who said that was the right tactic were right... although whether this will make Jumbo any friends or fans going forwards is another matter altogether. I'm very curious to see where the sport (& Tour) goes over the coming few years.

Making any friends? Where the sport goes...

The Tour has been ridden like that for years now. This is competitive cycling. And we saw in the stages where Pogacar was stronger than Vingegaard that drilling with a strong team is not always successful, respectively benefits the strongest rider, which doesn't necessarily have to be on the same team.

Again, being butthurt that your favourite rider got beat and then going out of your way to discredit the way the opponent achieved victory is lame as f***.

Pogacar will be back next year to beat Vingegaard, as will others. There's no reason to act like the Tour winner is set in stone for the coming years. Remember this was said about Pogacar also after his secon Tour title. And what happened?

 

[Lequack]

Yes but this time it's different. There is no rider able to beat Vinge, even in theory. His is riding the highest possible watts and he doesn't have bad days.

 

[Lorzenz08]

He will focus on one-day races. There, his attack cycling works and he does not risk exhaustion as he does in 3 week races.

Even if he would like, which I doubt. His sponsors would refuse. The TdF is the most lucrative cycling event by a huge margin.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Unfortunately me to and I am big fan of him. The way ITT was riden Pogi in best shape loses at least half of minute. They will have to go back to drawing board if they want to win TDF 2024.

We need a Pogi in best shape, and a Vinge that doesn't pull the ITT of his life, and the race would still be close.

Many people agree, that it is very likely that this ITT will be the best Vinge has ever done in his career.

 

[JimPanzen]

Yes but this time it's different. There is no rider able to beat Vinge, even in theory. His is riding the highest possible watts and he doesn't have bad days.

He got beaten by Pogacar in several stages. What do you mean?