Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Rackham]

Making any friends? Where the sport goes...

The Tour has been ridden like that for years now. This is competitive cycling. And we saw in the stages where Pogacar was stronger than Vingegaard that drilling with a strong team is not always successful, respectively benefits the strongest rider, which doesn't necessarily have to be on the same team.

Again, being butthurt that your favourite rider got beat and then going out of your way to discredit the way the opponent achieved victory is lame as f***.

This is sport though, i.e. you can't force people to like your favorite guy or the way his team rides.

Have you seen what people say about Manchester City? So don't expect people to like how Jumbo-Visma steamrolls the TdF, especially if it continues for a few more years. Me? I just find it easier to cheer for riders who have human limitations & crack every so often (Pog already did on Granon last year). I don't get anything out of attaching myself to athletes who perform superhuman exploits.

And sure, after Pogačar's first couple of breakout years where he looked invincible, I felt nothing towards him as a rider (beyond some "wow" factor). Then I started to like him a bit more when he showed his limits & that has continued this year. In that respect, yesterday was a pretty heroic climb of Loze with great optics.

Nice headline in L'Equipe this morning as well:

Notice how Pog got the headline & not Vingegaard? That's just how cycling is.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I get the point some of you are now making. Pogi didn't win the Tour this year. And should hence retire. Aged 24. That makes perfect sense to me.

P.S. Or maybe to give it a day or two? And to i don't know maybe again be eligible for for five in a row? We'll see.

 

[JimPanzen]

This is sport though, i.e. you can't force people to like your favorite guy or the way his team rides.

Have you seen what people say about Manchester City? So don't expect people to like how Jumbo-Visma steamrolls the TdF, especially if it continues for a few more years. Me? I just find it easier to cheer for riders who have human limitations & crack every so often (Pog already did on Granon last year). I don't get anything out of attaching myself to athletes who perform superhuman exploits.

And sure, after Pogačar's first couple of breakout years where he looked invincible, I felt nothing towards him as a rider (beyond some "wow" factor). Then I started to like him a bit more when he showed his limits & that has continued this year. In that respect, yesterday was a pretty heroic climb of Loze with great optics.

Nice headline in L'Equipe this morning as well:

Notice how Pog got the headline & not Vingegaard? That's just how cycling is.

You mean the human Pog that steamrolled the spring Classics...ok. And again, trying to push a narrative that dehumanizes the opponent ist lame.

And of course he's on the cover. The story yesterday was Gall's win and Pogi's breakdown, not Vingegaards 4th place or whatever.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

the human Pog that steamrolled MVDP on an MVDP course where vdp was at his best ever . Yeah right.

Pog definitely an alien. Vingegaard an universal god

 

[skippo12]

Only thing that seems to be a real weakness (even compared to non aliens) is high altitude. Even with the crash and a potential illness yesterdays result follows the trend of past stages in the 1800+ meter range. He was dropped on.

Loze 2020
Ventoux 2021
Galibier-Granon 2022
Hautacam 2022
Loze 2023

Marie Blanque is the only outlier.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Only thing that seems to be a real weakness (even compared to non aliens) is high altitude. Even with the crash and a potential illness yesterdays result follows the trend of past stages in the 1800+ meter range. He was dropped on.

Loze 2020
Ventoux 2021
Galibier-Granon 2022
Hautacam 2022
Loze 2023

Marie Blanque is the only outlier.

He also won high altitute stages: Cauterets (super hard ride on Tourmalet - 2115 m), Portet (MTF at 2215 m) and Luz Ardiden (Tourmalet as penultimate climb).

 

[saunaking]

Only thing that seems to be a real weakness (even compared to non aliens) is high altitude. Even with the crash and a potential illness yesterdays result follows the trend of past stages in the 1800+ meter range. He was dropped on.

Loze 2020
Ventoux 2021
Galibier-Granon 2022
Hautacam 2022
Loze 2023

Marie Blanque is the only outlier.

LOL No. The guy was just smashed. He dropped yesterday way before 2000m Probably 1600 or so
You think he had problems on granon and Hataucam stage because of the height? hahahahahahah
Loze 2020 he lost a few seconds to a stronger guy
Ventoux 2021 dropped a few seconds and caught back up on descent

what is this terrible analysis??

 

[jaylew]

I hear "Covid" being thrown around on the internetsphere as a reason for Pog's recent meltdown.

Their doctors have examined him and the team says he is not sick.

 

[Rob5091]

Their doctors have examined him and the team says he is not sick.

Yeah, if he was sick would UAE have sent Soler and Majka in the break?

 

[Peter von]

Yeah, if he was sick would UAE have sent Soler and Majka in the break?

I guess the COVID speculation is that it can sometimes hit that sweet spot where you don’t test positive in the morning, but it still manifests in the afternoon and takes a few % out of you.

COVID speculation btw is probably just one of those things that’ll spring to peoples minds because of recent history. So will always come up when someone looks remotely ill or underperforms.

 

[skippo12]

LOL No. The guy was just smashed. He dropped yesterday way before 2000m Probably 1600 or so
You think he had problems on granon and Hataucam stage because of the height? hahahahahahah
Loze 2020 he lost a few seconds to a stronger guy
Ventoux 2021 dropped a few seconds and caught back up on descent

what is this terrible analysis??

I am pointing out that with one exception all stages that saw him dropped featured high altitude. Apparently you have a big problem with that take. Or this is just your usual way to interact with people. In that case I feel really sorry for you.

For people that are still interested in the topic. Eurosport Germany talked about the impact of sleeping in high altitude. Mentioning that even 1500m can have a big impact on the performance. Something I never really thought about.

 

[Extinction]

I am pointing out that with one exception all stages that saw him dropped featured high altitude. Apparently you have a big problem with that take. Or this is just your usual way to interact with people. In that case I feel really sorry for you.

For people that are still interested in the topic. Eurosport Germany talked about the impact of sleeping in high altitude. Mentioning that even 1500m can have a big impact on the performance. Something I never really thought about.

Pog was just cooked. He digs too deep to beat Vingeggard and that comes with a very high bill to pay. Trying to keep up on the TT sealed his fate. I don't think folks realize, even Pogacar, that Jonas is simply on another level. And when you play with fire you eventually get burnt.

 

[JosefK]

Horner in his daily YouTube analysis said he thinks the most likely factor contributing to Pog's implosion on Loze was the crash earlier in the stage, even though Pogi himself said that wasn't too big a deal.

 

[Salvarani]

He will focus on one-day races. There, his attack cycling works and he does not risk exhaustion as he does in 3 week races.

He will suffer from "exhaustion" in three weeks going up against that one guy, which he cant beat. No matter what he does.

Showing up in July against that guy in the near future is only to finish 2nd, at best, and putting on a good show.

Every other race though... should be free game, if he hasnt burned-out physically and mentally or someone else steps up.

 

[Extinction]

Horner in his daily YouTube analysis said he thinks the most likely factor contributing to Pog's implosion on Loze was the crash earlier in the stage, even though Pogi himself said that wasn't too big a deal.

Usual knucklehead nonesense from Horner. Pog was simply cooked from over-withdrawing his bank account trying to beat the alien. The TT destroyed him.

 

[skippo12]

Pog was just cooked. He digs too deep to beat Vingeggard and that comes with a very high bill to pay. Trying to keep up on the TT sealed his fate. I don't think folks realize, even Pogacar, that Jonas is simply on another level. And when you play with fire you eventually get burnt.

That´s not even the point. Vingegaard is better. But Pog´s advantage over other competitors seems to fade.

 

[JosefK]

He will suffer from "exhaustion" in three weeks going up against that one guy, which he cant beat. No matter what he does.

Showing up in July against that guy in the near future is only to finish 2nd, at best, and putting on a good show.

Every other race though... should be free game, if he hasnt burned-out physically and mentally or someone else steps up.

I'm not sure about this, actually. Pog beat Jonas several times just in this Tour alone.

 

[Extinction]

That´s not even the point. Vingegaard is better. But Pog´s advantage over other competitors seems to fade.

? In english?

 

[skippo12]

Usual knucklehead nonesense from Horner. Pog was simply cooked from over-withdrawing his bank account trying to beat the alien. The TT destroyed him.

Comparing him to Hindley a couple of days earlier a hard fall is going to have an impact. Doesn´t mean that other points aren´t valid as well.

 

[Extinction]

Altitudine isn't his problem, destroying himself to beat Vingeggard is.

 

[Salvarani]

That´s not even the point. Vingegaard is better. But Pog´s advantage over other competitors seems to fade.

I think his advantage is still the same or comfortable at the moment to others. He just has no answer against Vinge. I cant see him beat that guy again. Not over three weeks.

Others could get better in the next year or so. Can he still be at the level he needs to be to beat them? That is the question.

 

[Extinction]

Comparing him to Hindley a couple of days earlier a hard fall is going to have an impact. Doesn´t mean that other points aren´t valid as well.

Pog said the fall wasn't to blame. He told his team, "I can't do it anymore. I am dead." So there you have it, straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[Salvarani]

I'm not sure about this, actually. Pog beat Jonas several times just in this Tour alone.

I think it is a bit more complicated than that, judging by the last few days.

 

[Extinction]

I think it is a bit more complicated than that, judging by the last few days.

Indeed, Pog relied on his explosivity to gain some seconds back on Vingo, but at an extremely high cost. He indepted himself and, when Vingo brought the check at the TT, with a sardonic smile, Pog had no cash left to pay the bill. Vingegaard simply has more stamina, a bigger engine for the third week. And it was a massacre.

 

[Rollthedice]

From now on he is stuck in a problem that can't be solved easily. Bag a few Giros and Vueltas plus the usual monuments or try forever to win another Tour against a rider that proved to be superior on two occasions already.