Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Pantani_lives]

If he wants to win something that he hasn't won yet the Giro or the Vuelta would be the obvious choice. Maybe he could win the Giro without being in top shape yet, the way Indurain did.

A lot will depend on the course. A relatively easy Giro with a lot of middle mountains would be good, although he has once said that the Stelvio is his favorite climb if I remember correctly. Being so all-round he has the embarrassment of choice.

 

[iBanesto]

Congrats Pogi!

Drink up!

 

[Roku]

Tadej Pogacar "Whole Calendar" Slam Watchlist (also considering podiums)

1. Grand Tours:
Tour de France X2 (2020, 2021), 2nd (2022, 2023)
Giro de Italia: TBA
Vuelta a España: 3rd (2019)

2. Monuments:
Milano San Remo: -
Ronde Van Vlaanderen: X (2023)
Paris Roubaix: TBA
Liege Bastogne Liege: X (2021), 3rd (2020)
Giro di Lombardia: X3 (2021,2022,2023)

3. World Championships and Olympic Races:
Olympic Road Race: 3rd (Tokyo 2020 -held in 2021-)
Olympic Time Trial: TBA
World Championship Road Race: 3rd (2023)
World Championship Time Trial: -

4. One Week Races:
París Nice: X (2023)
Tirreno-Adriático: X2 (2021, 2022)
Volta a Catalunya: TBA
Itzulia: 3rd (2021)
Tour de Romandie: TBA
Criterium du Dauphine: -
Tour de Suisse: TBA

5. Other Significant Races:
Omloop Het Volk / Het Nieuwsblad: TBA
UAE Tour (sigh): X2 (2021, 2022)
Strade Bianche: X (2022)
E3 Harelbeke: 3rd (2023)
Gent Wevelgem: TBA
Brabantse Pijl: TBA
Amstel Gold Race: X (2023)
Fleche Wallone: X (2023)
GP Plouay: -
San Sebastian: -
Giro dell Emilia: 2nd (2022, 2023)
París - Tours: TBA

6. Stage Wins:
Giro de Italia Stage Wins: 0
Tour de France Stage Wins: 11
Vuelta a España Stage Wins: 3
Total GT Stage Wins: 14
Total Pro Wins: 63

7. "Minor" Accolades:
GP Montréal (2022), Tour of Slovenia (2022), Tre Valli Varesine (2022), Tour of California (2019), Volta ao Algarve (2019), x2 Slovenian ITT Championships (2019, 2023), Slovenian Road Race Championships (2023).

Notes:
(1) "Other Significant Races" is a non-comprehensive list of races outside the well established and common accepted three categories (GT, Monuments, Seven "Historically/Traditional" One Week Races)
(2) "Minor Accolades" include another non-comprehensive list of other races won that might be missed by some users.
The aim is not to argue about which are the most relevant races but to keep track of which I feel are the most prestigious events regardless of the current official category.

 

[Roku]

I've updated the "watch-list" with the most relevant updates since spring. I hope I did not miss any significant update.

After comments by Salvarani I decided to add another category in order to list other wins that users might consider relevant, such as Montréal, Algarve or his NC.

Tadej closes the year with 17 pro wins - his most successful year in terms of total wins.

He has added prestigious wins to this resume - Ronde Van Vlaanderen, Paris-Nice, Amstel Gold Race and Fleche Wallone. In addition, he has scored his first WC medal and has added another TdF podium and a 3rd Giro di Lombardia.

I would love him to target Giro-Vuelta next season. I would rather see him complete his GT treble rather than winning his 3rd TdF.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar has just ended a superb season including 2 monuments, WC medal and a few other prestigious race victories, totalling 17 wins. In terms of achievements 2021 was better but this one was probably the best in terms of all-season level: and it could've been even better if not for this bad crash that took his chances for a 3rd monument victory and affected TdF preparations.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I would love him to target Giro-Vuelta next season. I would rather see him complete his GT treble rather than winning his 3rd TdF.

I think his goals will be the same as this year: monuments in the spring (possibly adding Roubaix), Tour and Lombardia.

 

[Mina.S]

I believe that the powers that be (The UAE) only want TDF success but with the Olympics next year, they might be able to persuade them to an alternate path.

 

[Salvarani]

Tadej Pogacar "Whole Calendar" Slam Watchlist (also considering podiums)

1. Grand Tours:
Tour de France X2 (2020, 2021), 2nd (2022, 2023)
Giro de Italia: TBA
Vuelta a España: 3rd (2019)

2. Monuments:
Milano San Remo: 3rd (2023)
Ronde Van Vlaanderen: X (2023)
Paris Roubaix: TBA
Liege Bastogne Liege: X (2021), 3rd (2020)
Giro di Lombardia: X3 (2021,2022,2023)

3. World Championships and Olympic Races:
Olympic Road Race: 3rd (Tokyo 2020 -held in 2021-)
Olympic Time Trial: TBA
World Championship Road Race: 3rd (2023)
World Championship Time Trial: -

4. One Week Races:
París Nice: X (2023)
Tirreno-Adriático: X2 (2021, 2022)
Volta a Catalunya: TBA
Itzulia: 3rd (2021)
Tour de Romandie: TBA
Criterium du Dauphine: -
Tour de Suisse: TBA

5. Other Significant Races:
Omloop Het Volk / Het Nieuwsblad: TBA
UAE Tour (sigh): X2 (2021, 2022)
Strade Bianche: X (2022)
E3 Harelbeke: 3rd (2023)
Gent Wevelgem: TBA
Brabantse Pijl: TBA
Amstel Gold Race: X (2023)
Fleche Wallone: X (2023)
GP Plouay: -
San Sebastian: -
Giro dell Emilia: 2nd (2022, 2023)
París - Tours: TBA

6. Stage Wins:
Giro de Italia Stage Wins: 0
Tour de France Stage Wins: 11
Vuelta a España Stage Wins: 3
Total GT Stage Wins: 14
Total Pro Wins: 63

7. "Minor" Accolades:
GP Montréal (2022), Tour of Slovenia (2022), Tre Valli Varesine (2022), Tour of California (2019), Volta ao Algarve (2019), x2 Slovenian ITT Championships (2019, 2023), Slovenian Road Race Championships (2023).

Notes:
(1) "Other Significant Races" is a non-comprehensive list of races outside the well established and common accepted three categories (GT, Monuments, Seven "Historically/Traditional" One Week Races)
(2) "Minor Accolades" include another non-comprehensive list of other races won that might be missed by some users.
The aim is not to argue about which are the most relevant races but to keep track of which I feel are the most prestigious events regardless of the current official category.

Why GP Plouay? It is not relevant nor significant.

I wouldnt say the Brabantse Pijl is significant either.

 

[Netserk]

Pogacar has just ended a superb season including 2 monuments, WC medal and a few other prestigious race victories, totalling 17 wins. In terms of achievements 2021 was better but this one was probably the best in terms of all-season level: and it could've been even better if not for this bad crash that took his chances for a 3rd monument victory and affected TdF preparations.

Yep, this schedule works for him. He was superb in Glasgow, so he has the blueprint for Paris next year. The only question mark is whether he can combine such a massive spring and then be ready for September Worlds. I hope he rides Roubaix next year, but other than that, more of the same.

 

[Elos Anjos]

He was 4th, not 3rd at Milano-San Remo.

 

[Red Rick]

Yep, this schedule works for him. He was superb in Glasgow, so he has the blueprint for Paris next year. The only question mark is whether he can combine such a massive spring and then be ready for September Worlds. I hope he rides Roubaix next year, but other than that, more of the same.

I think he needs to cut down in February/March and perhaps cut *** like Amstel too now that he's won it.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I think he needs to cut down in February/March and perhaps cut *** like Amstel too now that he's won it.

Flying from MSR until LBL while also riding the cobbled classics is a lot and trying to Peak for the RVV...

 

[Salvarani]

I think he needs to cut down in February/March and perhaps cut *** like Amstel too now that he's won it.

I dont agree.

I think that only happens if he goes to PR, then he can/should cut Amstel and maybe Fleche before LBL. I think Fleche could still be in there as prep before LBL though, even if he has done PR. It also takes the pressure off a bit to not race three monuments in a row.

I also think they have already narrowed it down in the spring.

Jaen and Andalucia was a good warm-up/test to get some racing miles before PN this season. Then MSR, E3, Ronde, Amstel, Fleche and LBL.

It is already pretty condense to only focus on the important stuff.

I think not have him travel to UAE and back are things that helps the most during the spring, rather than removing more races from his calendar.

 

[Red Rick]

Flying from MSR until LBL while also riding the cobbled classics is a lot and trying to Peak for the RVV...

Why would you fly for MSR. It's a zone 1 ride before Cipressa. And I really think that if you go for GC in Paris Nice/Tirreno it hurts you Sanremo.

 

[Red Rick]

I dont agree.

I think that only happens if he goes to PR, then he can/should cut Amstel and maybe Fleche before LBL. I think Fleche could still be in there as prep before LBL though, even if he has done PR. It also takes the pressure off a bit to not race three monuments in a row.

I also think they have already narrowed it down in the spring.

Jaen and Andalucia was a good warm-up/test to get some racing miles before PN this season. Then MSR, E3, Ronde, Amstel, Fleche and LBL.

It is already pretty condense to only focus on the important stuff.

I think not have him travel to UAE and back are things that helps the most during the spring, rather than removing more races from his calendar.

I'm not saying he shouldn't do any races, but he shouldn't be going so hard in races like Andalucia or even Tirreno/Paris Nice.

 

[Salvarani]

I'm not saying he shouldn't do any races, but he shouldn't be going so hard in races like Andalucia or even Tirreno/Paris Nice.

But that is like the chicken or the egg.

Was he going really hard or was he still just better than the guys he was competing against, who are also trying to build form.

I would say they/him know what they are doing and the results speaks for themselves.

 

[Red Rick]

But that is like the chicken or the egg.

Was he going really hard or was he still just better than the guys he was competing against, who are also trying to build form.

I would say they/him know what they are doing and the results speaks for themselves.

I think some go quite hard at that stage of the season. Take Gaudu in Paris Nice.

For me the guy I would look at is MvdP and how terrible he was in Tirreno

 

[Salvarani]

I think some go quite hard at that stage of the season. Take Gaudu in Paris Nice.

For me the guy I would look at is MvdP and how terrible he was in Tirreno

But MVDP is a completely different type of rider. He is much more of a specialist.

And if we go back to look at some other greats and legendary riders of the sport. They never took it easy. They tried to win PN/TA and the monuments as well, because they could.

 

[Red Rick]

But MVDP is a completely different type of rider. He is much more of a specialist.

And if we go back to look at some other greats and legendary riders of the sport. They never took it easy. They tried to win PN/TA and the monuments as well, because they could.

Why should he compare himself to riders of an era when the sport wasn't nearly as professional and competitive as it is now? It's a ridiculous standard. The big races are what counts for a guy like him. And it's not like Pogacar is incapable of dropping races, seeing as he skipped Strade this year.

I'm thinking of how to plan a season so he can compete in all 5 monuments, the Tour, Olympics, and Worlds. If he then can't compare to the legends of old because Sean Kelly won farmed Paris Nice every year what does it matter.

 

[Salvarani]

Why should he compare himself to riders of an era when the sport wasn't nearly as professional and competitive as it is now? It's a ridiculous standard. The big races are what counts for a guy like him. And it's not like Pogacar is incapable of dropping races, seeing as he skipped Strade this year.

I'm thinking of how to plan a season so he can compete in all 5 monuments, the Tour, Olympics, and Worlds. If he then can't compare to the legends of old because Sean Kelly won farmed Paris Nice every year what does it matter.

Comparing him to Mvdp is even more ridiculous.

Why are you taking this so personally?

Kelly also competed in one-week races, GTs and monuments so that is a way more relevant and accurate comparison.

 

[Red Rick]

Comparing him to Mvdp is even more ridiculous.

Why are you taking this so personally?

Kelly also competed in one-week races, GTs and monuments so that is a way more relevant and accurate comparison.

I'm not taking it personally at all. I just don't think Pog should spend so much energy chasing small wins when he should focus on maximizing the big ones. I reference Van der Poel specifically because he peaks so effectively for his main 1 day targets.

 

[Salvarani]

I'm not taking it personally at all. I just don't think Pog should spend so much energy chasing small wins when he should focus on maximizing the big ones. I reference Van der Poel specifically because he peaks so effectively for his main 1 day targets.

PN/TA are big and prestigious stage-races.

He is already maximizing his schedule to go for the big ones. Is he not doing that effective already? What are the results? Not good enough? What you are trying say makes no sense here.

MVDP is a classics rider and a specialist for certain type of races. You can take this argument to compare him to Van Aert instead about peaking "effectively" for a one-day race. The big ones.

 

[Red Rick]

PN/TA are big and prestigious stage-races.

He is already maximizing his schedule to go for the big ones. Is he not doing that effective already? What are the results? Not good enough?

MVDP is a classics rider and a specialist for certain type of race. You can take this argument to compare him to Van Aert instead about peaking "effectively" for a one-day race. The big ones.

PN/TA are big, but at the scale of top 5 riders of all time they're quite irrelevant in my opinion. And my view is that Pogacar suffers from his very heavy spring later in the season, and that's the primary reason that after the Tour he's too tired to consider doing the Vuelta, though that might just be the excuse for UAEs contracts with Ayuso et al.

 

[kn0s]

I don't know about this PR talk. It would be fun, but it's very risky. Seasons can easily be ruined there. I think it will be a hard race for him to win also, so maybe not the best risk/reward.

 

[Salvarani]

PN/TA are big, but at the scale of top 5 riders of all time they're quite irrelevant in my opinion. And my view is that Pogacar suffers from his very heavy spring later in the season, and that's the primary reason that after the Tour he's too tired to consider doing the Vuelta, though that might just be the excuse for UAEs contracts with Ayuso et al.

Cool, thats your opinion then. I dont agree with it.

Of course, he "suffers" and get tired in the end since he has had a tough schedule. He has raced all the monuments up until that point and the Tour. He needs a break in August to then peak for Lombardia. It has worked pretty damn good three years in a row.

I dont get how some are so obessed about him doing two GTs in a year? Like whats the point?

Somethings gotta give and it not as simple as just take it easier in this race here or whatever. Nor should he.

The schedule he currently rides is definitely the most awesome you can do.