Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Salvarani]

I think the only freedom Yates and Ayuso both get is to keep going to the line after they've done their job for Pogacar.

Yes that is most likely to happen and I guess Yates is the one most likely to having to sacrifice himself, if needed to.

 

[Berniece]

3 weeks where no one has forced him and he has made the efforts when and how he wanted. To me this sounds like training, and in the hardest stages he looked very good after finish, I don't know if like a daisy, I'm not a botanist...

Right, because his training sessions are harder than Martinez giving his all…

 

[Nick2413]

He will need a higher level at the Tour to produce the same numbers of this Giro because of heat and harder overall racing. Question is what will actually be needed.

 

[Gigs_98]

I agree on Pogacar in 2023, I think the combination of minor illness/stomach issue and the crash explain his collapse much better than "not enough training" when he missed some training in the exact period where he'd take it the easiest.

For Vingegaard the problem I see isn't that he just has a limited time to get to his peak level, it's that the position he needs to recover from is gonna be much worse than what a Contador had to do in 2014. He wasn't at Tour level in Itzulia, he was near the end of his first racing block, and he spent a very significant amount of time so immobile it's gonna detrain very quickly.

The question is basically now if a rider can basically go from something similar to untrained December shape, which mind you is much better these days, to his very best level in about 6 weeks of training.

I don't think this is similar to injuries where the form is there and you just need to heal from the injury quickly and them bum rush a quick high intensity block. To me it's more similar to Evenepoel flailing around in his first Giro or Roglic getting surgery in late 2022 with Jumbo thinking he may not reach top shape by the Giro months later.

If anything, the idea that Vingegaard can be competitive at the Tour goes against just about everything I've learned about pro level training

Yeah I mostly agree. I'm also having a hard time seeing how this preparation can be good enough to get into Tour shape, but I also really don't know sh*t about sports medicine and pro training. His team seems to have believe that he can make it. Maybe they also don't believe in beating Pogacar in top shape, but if they believe in beating Roglic and Evenepoel that's good enough for me. Pogacar with the Giro in his legs is still a bit of an unknown. Contador was significantly weaker in the Tour during his double attempts, Quintana in 2017 was a complete catastrophe. This Tour has way more unknowns than just Vingegaards recovery so I can't count him out.

 

[Netserk]

2011 Giro was a lot harder than 2024 Giro on top of Contador crashing in the Giro and Tour.

Afaik, he did not crash in that Giro. Despite its hardness, he still looked fresh as a daisy in the third week.

The eye-test isn't the measure of fatigue.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah I mostly agree. I'm also having a hard time seeing how this preparation can be good enough to get into Tour shape, but I also really don't know sh*t about sports medicine and pro training. His team seems to have believe that he can make it. Maybe they also don't believe in beating Pogacar in top shape, but if they believe in beating Roglic and Evenepoel that's good enough for me. Pogacar with the Giro in his legs is still a bit of an unknown. Contador was significantly weaker in the Tour during his double attempts, Quintana in 2017 was a complete catastrophe. This Tour has way more unknowns than just Vingegaards recovery so I can't count him out.

My interpretation is that it's much more of a "Tour is lost any result is a bonus" shot with the Vuelta in mind. To me it's a rush to be in a race worthy condition, not a TdF winning condition. The other side of the picture is just Visma getting a lot of publicity out of Vingegaard training.

And I'm extremely bullish on Pogacar. He's not gonna be any worse than this Giro

 

[Netserk]

I have to say I enjoy this much more than that same old 'skeletor'/cyborg/area 51/new and updated iteration crap joke going on in the Vingegaard thread.

I'd only agree with that if not taking opportunity cost into account.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Afaik, he did not crash in that Giro. Despite its hardness, he still looked fresh as a daisy in the third week.

The eye-test isn't the measure of fatigue.

Researching further looks like you’re right. I just Denver from earlier there have been some saying Contador crashed in both.

 

[cen]

The only thing that saves July is a stratospheric Roglic performance and I am giving that a 10% chance.. we might be in for a "boring" tour.. :/

 

[RedheadDane]

There's the proof! The hair tufts doesn't occur naturally:

 

[Froome]

The lack of training is the basis, I believe, no one wants to go to a Tour starting to train well in June. If this had not affected the concentrations at altitude in May they are a waste of time.

And yet he didn't reached on this Giro the numbers he produced last year in the Tour de France when he clearly improved from 2022 to 2023 in terms of climbing level.

So, that take doesn't fit right with what happened on the road. Plus, it doesn't make sense thinking he had just one bad day in 21 days(he was already good 2 days after in the vosges) because of preparation, since he also had a bad day in 2022. It was public that he crashed in the stage and had stomach issues.

Pogacar climbing level in the Tour 2023 was is best version ever, and it was with San Millan.

 

[Rou]

Velon CC (@veloncc) on Threads

A legendary attack to seal the Giro 💥 Tadej Pogačar extended his lead to almost 10min with one stage to go with this immense move on Monte Grappa, 36km from the finish. 📸 Getty Images

www.threads.net

Pog's weight at the Giro is at most 65 kgs. This means he did 6.92 W/Kg for 15 min 31 secs in the last 5.7 kms of Grappa. Nice training ride for the Tour where he is supposed to be 1 kg lighter.
Special present for @Froome and for the bald fraud San Millan.

 

[Froome]

Velon CC (@veloncc) on Threads

A legendary attack to seal the Giro 💥 Tadej Pogačar extended his lead to almost 10min with one stage to go with this immense move on Monte Grappa, 36km from the finish. 📸 Getty Images

www.threads.net

Pog's weight at the Giro is at most 65 kgs. This means he did 6.92 W/Kg for 15 min 31 secs in the last 5.7 kms of Grappa. Nice training ride for the Tour where he is supposed to be 1 kg lighter.
Special present for @Froome and for the bald fraud San Millan.

No, he didn’t.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1794457699419058321

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1794457699419058321


The weight of Pogacar or any other rider, is irrelevant. The comparation between perfomances is in a padron weight. Ammattipyoraily uses always "65"kg. LR guys "60 kg".

 

[Rou]

No, he didn’t.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1794457699419058321

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1794457699419058321


The weight of Pogacar or any other rider, is irrelevant. The comparation between perfomances is in a padron weight. Ammattipyoraily uses always "65"kg. LR guys "60 kg".

Did I mention any W/KG estimations from Ammattipyoraily or LR? I just gave you his average power - 450 W, his average speed and the duration and length of the segment. I also gave you his race weight. You do the simple maths and you get the result. It's not hard, mate.

 

[Froome]

Did I mention any W/KG estimations from Ammattipyoraily or LR? I just gave you his average power - 450 W, his average speed and the duration and length of the segment. I also gave you his race weight. You do the simple maths and you get the result. It's not hard, mate.

I'm not interested in what you give. I'm more interested in the data of ammattipyoraily who is more reliable.

 

[scribers]

I am interested in what rou has to say

Any relation to mou???

 

[Alien Performance]

Been having a look at his last few years on PCS, and discovered the last time he finished behind any non-Jumbo rider (Jonas or Primoz) in a stage race was the 2020 Dauphine where he was 4th behind Martinez, Pinot and G. Martin

 

[scribers]

speaking of mou, we have no prophecies beyond the Giro. What are we in for to see for the rest of the season?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

speaking of mou, we have no prophecies beyond the Giro. What are we in for to see for the rest of the season?

Mou said he could win all races the next four years.

 

[Netserk]

Mou said he could win all races the next four years.

Not all races, ciciban races like Sanremo weren't included.

Pog will not lose the Strade Bianche, all the one-week races, all the grand tour races he competes in, Lombardy, Liège and Flanders in the next 4 years, so much for that, the power profile I have about Pog speaks for itself and you say what you want

 

[yaf]

Who has ever done a sprint lead out when he is about to win a grand tour and has an appointment at the biggest race in the world? Unheard of 🐐

 

[Gigs_98]

Who has ever done a sprint lead out when he is about to win a grand tour and has an appointment at the biggest race in the world? Unheard of 🐐

I think Wiggins did it at the biggest race in the world.

 

[Red Rick]

Who has ever done a sprint lead out when he is about to win a grand tour and has an appointment at the biggest race in the world? Unheard of 🐐

Wiggins did one for Cavendish in the Tour in 2012. And he did it much better too

 

[Tim Cahill]

Who has ever done a sprint lead out when he is about to win a grand tour and has an appointment at the biggest race in the world? Unheard of 🐐

A fellow Bradley Wiggins enjoyer! Good man! Don't see many gracing the forums nowadays

 

[SHAD0W93]

Who has ever done a sprint lead out when he is about to win a grand tour and has an appointment at the biggest race in the world? Unheard of 🐐

Wiggins twice for Cav stage 18 and 20/21.