Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[gregrowlerson]

Dream thought; the third week contains a mini Flanders course to kind of bookend the PR one. Pogacar obviously drops Vingegaard. Can WVA keep him within two minutes?

 

[Extinction]

UAE needs more investments in the team, a co-leader would be an interesting solution. I'd say they need at least one strong all-rounder/ITT specialist and 2 mountain goats. The guys like Hirshi shouldn't be included in the Tour team.

But who are those guys on the market today? I don't know about them. Between Jumbo and Ineos the best gt support is on contract. Tadej seems to be in the Contador dilemma. His best mountain dom is even a certain polish rider past his prime, once Contador's leading mountain support. The real problem has been Tadej himself this time. He had a bad day at the worst moment, otherwise he finishes with Vingegaard on the Glandon and is still in the lead. If the bad climb was because of tactical and feeding mistakes on the Galibier that day, then unfortunately he only has himself to blame and he may well have lost this Tour because of it. Sure when it's all said and done, whatever the final outcome, if UAE wants to provide better support for Pogacar then it needs to invest in more fire power. The trouble will be in finding a new generation of riders fit for that task it can develop as Jumbo has done.

 

[Extinction]

Almeida would have been very useful.

Not as a co-leader or as a domestique but as a second GC rider targeting top 5. His presence high up in GC would always give Jumbo something else to watch & chase. They could have taken Ayuso as well if he'd prepared for the Tour.

In the end this is a very weak UAE team, made even weaker by Covid. Add the fact Vingegaard looked like he was on a casual Sunday ride on Pogacar's wheel yesterday (& on Alpe D'Huez) & Pog has an almighty uphill struggle to win this Tour against a rider who looks to be his equal (& maybe even stronger, which is crazy) & Jumbo's armada.

Yet Almeida was promissed a GT for himself, thus if that prospect doesn't change he won't be prepared to go for Tour gc, but at best only super dom capacity. For he won't have 2 GTs going for gc in him in one season. Ayuso for the next couple of years, however, could be developed into a great asset at the Tour for the team.

 

[Oldermanish]

What makes you think tomorrow will be easy?

I mentioned on another thread that it also could be a sh*tshow if there are winds and bad riding. It happens quickly when sprinter teams need that only Tour win. As long as Vingo has a team bubble he should be OK. Output should be less jumpy which can be theraputic in a stage race. Tadej will have to guess and freelance to make much of it and he's better off chilling, too. Unless he makes a surprise break he's got to guess right on every effort or risk being swept back by a JV train.

 

[Red Rick]

Dream thought; the third week contains a mini Flanders course to kind of bookend the PR one. Pogacar obviously drops Vingegaard. Can WVA keep him within two minutes?

If you by mini Flanders mean some sort of Benelux Tour style stage with Muur van Geraardsbergen, then very easily. I don't even think Vingegaard needs Van Aert for that.

 

[Miha81]

I hope that super glue does not work in hard rain

Waiting patiently for final week carnage

https://twitter.com/x/status/1548371976498032642

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/procycletrumps/status/1548371976498032642

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

That superglue meme is hilarious

 

[Krzysztof_O]

No heat on wednesday and less on thursday. Maybe a bit better for Pog, we will see.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Realistically it will be hard to gain enough time back. But Pogi will try. And likely he will get some help from JV.

 

[Red Rick]

I think differently.

If Vingegaard is affected by the crash this Tour is over. He went down hard today

 

[hender-retour]

He seems to be using the opposite tactics of Armstrong. Much nicer guy. But he isn't really capitalizing on this personal trait. He rides with the same confidicene but even with a weakened Jumbo I don't see him bossing the field to do his bidding. Sometimes being the nice guy isn't a winners choice.

 

[Lequack]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1548702511250505728

View: https://twitter.com/TeamEmiratesUAE/status/1548702511250505728?s=20&t=sEQBYksf_ucg04awfknASw

 

[CyclistAbi]

I think differently.

If Vingegaard is affected by the crash this Tour is over. He went down hard today

He for sure is affected. On this level any detail counts. Pogi just has to be patient for JV to finish their job.

 

[Red Rick]

He for sure is affected. On this level any detail counts. Pogi just has to be patient for JV to finish their job.

It's not about Jumbo.

It's about Pogs entire package. If he's suddenly 2% better it's just leeway for Pog to go wherever he wants and increase the gap on descents and subsequent climbs with Vingegaards entire team evaporating overnight.

 

[CyclistAbi]

But Pogi likely won't be 2% better. To his usuall self. Not that half beaten version Rogla delivered to the last hill. Jonas might end up being 2% less good, though. As JV is working on that.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

But who are those guys on the market today? I don't know about them. Between Jumbo and Ineos the best gt support is on contract. Tadej seems to be in the Contador dilemma. His best mountain dom is even a certain polish rider past his prime, once Contador's leading mountain support. The real problem has been Tadej himself this time. He had a bad day at the worst moment, otherwise he finishes with Vingegaard on the Glandon and is still in the lead. If the bad climb was because of tactical and feeding mistakes on the Galibier that day, then unfortunately he only has himself to blame and he may well have lost this Tour because of it. Sure when it's all said and done, whatever the final outcome, if UAE wants to provide better support for Pogacar then it needs to invest in more fire power. The trouble will be in finding a new generation of riders fit for that task it can develop as Jumbo has done.

I’d take past-his-prime over the sulkily-sorta-doms-but-thinks-he-should-be-leader Majka that Contador had. As far as I can tell, he’s actually been quite good this Tour. Rode too hard on the Granon but I don’t think that was his fault.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Maybe Ineos will try to use numbers game on Pogi?

P.S. Only to lose the podium position after.

 

[topcat]

Dream thought; the third week contains a mini Flanders course to kind of bookend the PR one. Pogacar obviously drops Vingegaard. Can WVA keep him within two minutes?

No, Wout is up the road cause he was promised the stage, Jumbo and stuff, googly googly.

 

[Tonton]

Ineos will keep doing what they are doing, defend the podium with a team against lone rangers. I hope that Pog's team is serious and has a strategy. He needs it. There's work to do.

Tadej blew himself up, a bit like Merckx did in Pra-Loup in '75 a(nd lost Le Tour by 2'47"). There's a price to pay. One piece? Two pieces? Three pieces? How do you eat up the deficit? If someone can do it, he can do it.

 

[Scarponi]

I’d take past-his-prime over the sulkily-sorta-doms-but-thinks-he-should-be-leader Majka that Contador had. As far as I can tell, he’s actually been quite good this Tour. Rode too hard on the Granon but I don’t think that was his fault.

Outside of a 500m pull on a Paris Nice stage barely even remember Majka doing anything for Contador lol

 

[Oldermanish]

But who are those guys on the market today? I don't know about them. Between Jumbo and Ineos the best gt support is on contract. Tadej seems to be in the Contador dilemma. His best mountain dom is even a certain polish rider past his prime, once Contador's leading mountain support. The real problem has been Tadej himself this time. He had a bad day at the worst moment, otherwise he finishes with Vingegaard on the Glandon and is still in the lead. If the bad climb was because of tactical and feeding mistakes on the Galibier that day, then unfortunately he only has himself to blame and he may well have lost this Tour because of it. Sure when it's all said and done, whatever the final outcome, if UAE wants to provide better support for Pogacar then it needs to invest in more fire power. The trouble will be in finding a new generation of riders fit for that task it can develop as Jumbo has done.

Your point on available riders is well taken. The double problem is you need mature, experienced riders in GTs to manage the rough stuff and McNulty is a great example. He'll be that guy maybe next year and UAE will need two more. I'm having a flashback to saying this very thing a year or two ago.
The young guys are too busy stretching their wings and figuring out each new course so UAE will need to steal the support they need. They should go after Quinn Simmons and treat him like the next Wout. That shouldn't be a problem for that operation.

 

[Cookster15]

I’d take past-his-prime over the sulkily-sorta-doms-but-thinks-he-should-be-leader Majka that Contador had. As far as I can tell, he’s actually been quite good this Tour. Rode too hard on the Granon but I don’t think that was his fault.

My memory of Majka’s “support” for Contador is painful. One stage when his leader crashed Mr Majka was gallivanting up the road for himself. Was that 2015? Not a team player. I sincerely hope Pog’s TdF doesn’t rely on Majka’s questionable support.

 

[Salvarani]

I think differently.

If Vingegaard is affected by the crash this Tour is over. He went down hard today

Yeah, I guess we will find out sooner rather than later how much he is affected. They will likely not say anything, just hope for the best.

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

I definetely think Pogi has a chance to still overtake Jonas.

2 minutes are not a lot on the stages we have.

I dont think the fall itself will weaken Jonas that much but with Primoz and Steven he lost 2 key helpers. Benoot got down hard too so he could be less usefull too.

so that leaves Nathan, Sepp, Wout and Christophe. Only Sepp will be around to help Jonas on the finish climbs.

Jumbo’s team leader can say that Wout will have to count for 3; but the guy can only do so much. He admitted that he trained more on sprints than mountains like in 2020 and these 2 weeks have been long.

meanwhile UAE seems to get there thing together again. Hirschi ans Bjerg seem to have recovered and mcnulty and Majka seem strong

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Yeah, I guess we will find out sooner rather than later how much he is affected. They will likely not say anything, just hope for the best.

Obviously they wont say anything but it doesnt matter as Pog will be attacking no matter if Vinge is super strong or not. He will try and risk until the end cause 2nd or 4th doesnt make a big difference for him.