Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[CyclistAbi]

In discus throwing...

How can being the best to throw a plate in anyway compare to what Pogacar does?

I guess winning monuments had become old news.

Among many other things Čeh became world champion, won Diamond League and finished second at the European championship. Considering athletics is the Queen of Sport i feel that it bodes well with cycling. Hence Pogi needed to win the Tour or become world champion, to beat Čeh. Something was hence missing, compared to achievements of Čeh.

P.S. Dončić didn't win yet. He likely only needs to become a NBA champion for that.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

In discus throwing...

How can being the best to throw a plate in anyway compare to what Pogacar does?

I guess winning monuments had become old news.

Discus is obviously not the biggest thing in athletics, but I still think it should be recognised when someone has a tremendous season no matter which sport it is in. I probably would have awarded it to Pogačar, too, but I'm also biased by being more into cycling.

Still I feel like the decision to award it to Čeh could be justified. I also assume Pogačar had won it before, which might have counted against him during voting.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Nairo Quintana is going to the Giro.
No more chances for Pogi achieving the double, I'm afraid.

EDIT: I'm really happy for Quintana's comeback and I would like him to achieve a very noble podium.

 

[tobydawq]

Discus is obviously not the biggest thing in athletics, but I still think it should be recognised when someone has a tremendous season no matter which sport it is in. I probably would have awarded it to Pogačar, too, but I'm also biased by being more into cycling.

Still I feel like the decision to award it to Čeh could be justified. I also assume Pogačar had won it before, which might have counted against him during voting.

Yes, I think so too, and that is a massive flaw in these awards.

Roglic won in 2020 by the way.

Then Pogacar in 2021 (Roglic had also won in 2019).

I think it would be obvious that the importance of the sport weighs a lot, and cycling >>> discus throwing, so I find it ridiculous that when you have three of the 15 best riders in the world, two of the five best and THE best rider, that you then award it to someone else just because it can't go to a cyclist every year. Of course it can if you have riders like Pogacar and Roglic.

It's the same with Anne-Marie Rindom in Denmark. She always gets nominated but her sport is just not significant enough to give her a chance to beat Vingegaard or Mads Pedersen even if she wins everything throughout a season.

 

[Salvarani]

Pog added to T-A on PCS.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Yes, I think so too, and that is a massive flaw in these awards.

Roglic won in 2020 by the way.

Then Pogacar in 2021 (Roglic had also won in 2019).

I think it would be obvious that the importance of the sport weighs a lot, and cycling >>> discus throwing, so I find it ridiculous that when you have three of the 15 best riders in the world, two of the five best and THE best rider, that you then award it to someone else just because it can't go to a cyclist every year. Of course it can if you have riders like Pogacar and Roglic.

It's the same with Anne-Marie Rindom in Denmark. She always gets nominated but her sport is just not significant enough to give her a chance to beat Vingegaard or Mads Pedersen even if she wins everything throughout a season.

Rindom was "unlucky" that Viktor Axelsen also won gold in Tokyo. Vingegaard is then also a bit "fortunate" that Axelsen messed up at the World Championship this year. Otherwise it would have been closer between them in my book. But perhaps they'll split the votes between them, and the men's handball team will win instead.

 

[Extinction]

My suggestion to settle your disagreement is to simply refrain—unless you’re talking about Gino Bartali saving lives and other pros who rode bikes for the resistance during WWII—from ever using the word courageous to describe pro cyclists. Yes, they takes risks with their racing and their race schedules—just as we all takes risks in our jobs or livelihoods. Maybe you can say it’s ballsy of Pogacar to tackle his proposed scheduled, but that’s what he seems to like to do and wants to do. That’s just good living, trying to make the most of what he’s got.

I think it doesn't need to be explained that "courageous" is in the sporting sense, which, metaphorically, has its life and death scenarioes like what Bartali did in another era outside the sport, yet riding his bike. Yet in the sporting sense what Pogi is doing is indeed courageous, because he will need good fortune on his side to pull it off and it goes against prudence, which in itself signifies courage (or stupidity - you pick). On the other hand, his program could actually not be courageous at all, if he is opting for the Giro in his palmares over a Tour he cannot win against Vingo, for which he has an "alibi" in France. So it might actually be a sort of courage, mitigated by weighing realistic possibilities against another who proved too strong twice.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I think it would be obvious that the importance of the sport weighs a lot, and cycling >>> discus throwing ...

If this would be the only metric then Dončić would likely already win (a few).

 

[tobydawq]

Rindom was "unlucky" that Viktor Axelsen also won gold in Tokyo. Vingegaard is then also a bit "fortunate" that Axelsen messed up at the World Championship this year. Otherwise it would have been closer between them in my book. But perhaps they'll split the votes between them, and the men's handball team will win instead.

You think winning the Tour has already become old news?

I would hope it would take more than two times for that.

 

[tobydawq]

If this would be the only metric then Dončić would likely already win (a few).

Perhaps. Or Oblak.

They, however, are not as outstanding in their sport, I would think (maybe I am exposing my lack of knowledge about basketball here), as Roglic and especially Pogacar.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Perhaps. Or Oblak.

They, however, are not as outstanding in their sport, I would think (maybe I am exposing my lack of knowledge about basketball here), as Roglic and especially Pogacar.

Yeah, but you see. If we go from not using popularity of the sport, as being the relevant metric, to being outstanding in their sport. Then Čeh nailed it in that season.

Luka is in my opinion outstanding. Both in NBA and national selection. But we will indeed likely make him earn it. That is you need to become a NBA champion, Luka, or no chance at all. Ruthless if you ask me. But hopefully he does just that! So Pogi, Tour or Worlds, or like no chance at all. The bar is set high.

 

[Salvarani]

Perhaps. Or Oblak.

They, however, are not as outstanding in their sport, I would think (maybe I am exposing my lack of knowledge about basketball here), as Roglic and especially Pogacar.

Doncic is top 5 in the league. Oblak was at least one of the best goalkeppers around for a short while.

It also sort of makes sense to give other sports/athletes some time to shine for an award show like this, especially if they have won something major within that sport.

They dont really get same opportunities for major wins in comparison to cycling, where Roglic and Pog are always gonna win something each year.

Will be pretty boring to always give the award to either of them. They could but probably would defeat the awards purpose.

 

[tobydawq]

Yeah, but you see. If we go from not using popularity of the sport, as being the relevant metric, to being outstanding in their sport. Then Čeh nailed it in that season.

Yeah, you could also balance the two things instead of saying it's only popularity of sport that matters or that it doesn't matter at all...

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yeah, you could also balance the two things instead of saying it's only popularity of sport that matters or that it doesn't matter at all...

Still, athletics is rather popular?

But i get it, on how some people could say discus throwing? May i suggest an experiment. Over the weekend, likely walking in the nature, take a stone weighting at around 2kg. Make sure no other people or animals are around. Then pick it up and throw it as far as you can. With crude measurement tools, your legs, turn that distance into meters. Anywhere close to 70m? Feels infuriating?

Now such experiment likely won't make you imminently to give up cycling altogether. And to go after trophies depicting Discobolus. Still likely it will give you a new perspective on discus throwing athletes. That is acknowledging them, when you win it all, in a grand fashion, then it's more than appropriate to finish ahead of a cyclist, that didn't win it all that season.

 

[tobydawq]

Still, athletics is rather popular?

But i get it, on how some people could say discus throwing? May i suggest an experiment. Over the weekend, likely walking in the nature, take a stone weighting at around 2kg. Make sure no other people or animals are around. Then pick it up and throw it as far as you can. With crude measurement tools, your legs, turn that distance into meters. Anywhere close to 70m? Feels infuriating?

Now such experiment likely won't make you imminently to give up cycling altogether. And to go after trophies depicting Discobolus. Still likely it will give you a new perspective on discus throwing athletes. That is acknowledging them, when you win it all, in a grand fashion, then it's more than appropriate to finish ahead of a cyclist, that didn't win it all that season.

That doesn't really make any sense. Of course the best discus throwers can throw farther than I can. The best cyclists can cycle faster than me. That's really besides the point.

And I know athletics are popular but probably not so much the throwing disciplines.

You could also ask how many discus throwers there are vis-a-vis cyclists.

But then you could come with the 'how many basketball players are there then?' argument.

And this show would never end.

Pogacar already is and will forever be a legend of the sport, with only a very select few riders able to match him throughout history. Ceh will never have that same aura around him in athletics. World record holder or not.

 

[Sciatic]

Still, athletics is rather popular?

But i get it, on how some people could say discus throwing? May i suggest an experiment. Over the weekend, likely walking in the nature, take a stone weighting at around 2kg. Make sure no other people or animals are around. Then pick it up and throw it as far as you can. With crude measurement tools, your legs, turn that distance into meters. Anywhere close to 70m? Feels infuriating?

Now such experiment likely won't make you imminently to give up cycling altogether. And to go after trophies depicting Discobolus. Still likely it will give you a new perspective on discus throwing athletes. That is acknowledging them, when you win it all, in a grand fashion, then it's more than appropriate to finish ahead of a cyclist, that didn't win it all that season.

Very interesting.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Perhaps the most impressive recent Giro-Tour double performance is Dumoulin's 2nd places in 2018.

Yup, Teddy is aiming to repeat this prestigious runner-up double. Camaleon will kill him on long Giro climbs while YouKnowWho will do the same in France.

 

[CyclistAbi]

That doesn't really make any sense. Of course the best discus throwers can throw farther than I can. The best cyclists can cycle faster than me. That's really besides the point.

The point i was trying to make is you are biased toward cycling. And less open to discus throwing. Likely being much more involved and invested in one than the other. Likely your place of living determines too. On what sports you find more traditional and as such greater.

Pogacar already is and will forever be a legend of the sport, with only a very select few riders able to match him throughout history.

OK then lets try:

Čeh already is and will forever be a legend of the sport, with only a very select few discus throwers able to match him throughout history.

And note that this goes all the way back to Discobolus. Bicycle is a much more modern invention. Imagine asking @tobydawqBC the same question. On how does he rate Čeh against Pogi.

P.S. Anyway, i would give the award to mister 100% anyway, this year. So Čeh and Pogi can sort it out themself. But did you seen Čeh? The only thing Pogi has going for him is he is fast on the bike.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

The point i was trying to make is you are biased toward cycling.



OK then lets try:



And note that this goes all the way back to Discobolus. Bicycle is a much more modern invention. Imagine asking @tobydawqBC the same question. On how does he rate Čeh against Pogi.

P.S. Anyway, i would give the award to mister 100% anyway, this year. So Čeh and Pogi can sort it out themself. But did you seen Čeh? The only thing Pogi has going for him is he is fast on the bike.

The argument is also that there are fewer discus throwers than cyclists, which makes it easier to get to the top.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The argument is also that there are fewer discus throwers than cyclists, which makes it easier to get to the top.

Try it.

 

[Salvarani]

Dont undertand why Ceh shouldnt have gotten it or is somehow not worthy.

He won the WC gold medal. Besides Olympics it is the biggest thing he can ever win.

He definitely deserves that award.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Čeh in his winning year.

Kristjan Čeh, Urša Bogataj in mešana skakalna ekipa športniki leta 2022

Metalec diska Kristjan Čeh, smučarska skakalka Urša Bogataj in mešana smučarska skakalna ekipa (Urša Bogataj, Nika Križnar, Peter Prevc in Timi Zajc) so najbolj zaznamovali leto 2022 v slovenskem športu.

www.rtvslo.si

I don't have a picture of Pogi for this year. As Pogi and Rogla don't even bother any more. To show to such event. They still do some charity work. So one from there:

Primož Roglič zbral 200 tisoč evrov za mlade športnike, novi boter Goran Dragić

200.180 evrov je zbral Primož Roglič z dražbo 12 svojih rekvizitov, kar bo OKS-ova fundacija Leona Štuklja in Mira Cerarja namenila za štipendije mladim športnikom iz socialno šibkejših okoljih. "Žogo dobrodelnosti" je zdaj ujel košarkar Goran Dragić.

www.rtvslo.si

Go guys! Go beat them all. Than at least have the courtesy and show up for Slovenian sportsmen of the year award! Or we will give it to Luka.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Try it.

I have no interest in it. Why haven't you become the world's best footballer?

I'm not claiming it's easy, only that there are sports where in it's undeniably harder to become dominant. But as I've said all along, I think Čeh deserved recognition for his achievements last year and that it could be justified that he received the award.

 

[tobydawq]

The point i was trying to make is you are biased toward cycling. And less open to discus throwing. Likely being much more involved and invested in one than the other. Likely your place of living determines too. On what sports you find more traditional and as such greater.



OK then lets try:



And note that this goes all the way back to Discobolus. Bicycle is a much more modern invention. Imagine asking @tobydawqBC the same question. On how does he rate Čeh against Pogi.

P.S. Anyway, i would give the award to mister 100% anyway, this year. So Čeh and Pogi can sort it out themself. But did you seen Čeh? The only thing Pogi has going for him is he is fast on the bike.

Yes, I watch athletics so I have seen him.

And of course I'm biased but there are tons of books written on cycling, none about freaking discus throwing. Your trick about exchanging in Ceh and discus throwing in my phrase doesn't work because nobody (read: much fewer people) cares about discus throwing and it's simply not an interesting enough sport to make its best competitors anywhere near cycling's best in the public eye.

Now, I assume you had a similar discussion last year on the forum.discusthrowernews.com but in reverse, so I think I will be putting this down now so it will not become too repetitive for you.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I have no interest in it. Why haven't you become the world's best footballer?

I was not the one claiming becoming the world's best footballer is somehow easy. Although, on how hard can it really be? To kick a ball.

I'm not claiming it's easy, only that there are sports where in it's undeniably harder to become dominant.

Might be, then again you might be wrong on this? That is, amongst all the people in the world, you being the one. Throwing an object the furthest. Now don't give me that excuse, on how everybody rides a bike and nobody throws things. It's the opposite. Kids don't start with the ball, to play football, they don't start with a bicycle. Way before all of that they throw things. All of us have done it. At some point in our lives. Throw a rock as far as we could.

Nobody came even close to Čeh. At the same time some of us for sure perfectly capable of beating Pogi. For like a second or two. But still. Much closer, then Čeh.