Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[shadowrider]

Pogacar races like a grown human. He hasn't needed much babysitting since he got on a bike and appears happy most of the time. He has few tantrums and is generous with his sportsmanship.

Of course, Pogacar needed (and needs) babysitting.... and better teammates. That's one of the reasons he was twice beaten in the Tour. So yes, at least Almeida (till the end of his contract) and maybe Ayuso will have to work for Pogacar.

 

[shadowrider]

Actually he didn't. Because Roglič didn't finish that Vuelta.

So, Roglic didn't finish ahead of Evenepoel in the Giro this year. For the same reason. But Evenepoel would easily have beaten Roglic without covid. Roglic wouldn't have beaten Evenepoel in the Vuelta 22 even without his crash.

 

[acm]

So, Roglic didn't finish ahead of Evenepoel in the Giro this year. For the same reason.

Agree.

But Evenepoel would easily have beaten Roglic without covid. Roglic wouldn't have beaten Evenepoel in the Vuelta 22 even without his crash.

Don't agree. We simply cannot know that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The level presented at the Tour 2024 should indeed give some more clues. If things are really as straightforward as some claim.

 

[shadowrider]

Agree.

Don't agree. We simply cannot know that.

Of course. That's the reason why I have given that example.

 

[Oldermanish]

Of course, Pogacar needed (and needs) babysitting.... and better teammates. That's one of the reasons he was twice beaten in the Tour. So yes, at least Almeida (till the end of his contract) and maybe Ayuso will have to work for Pogacar.

He was beaten at the most recent Tour because he had abbreviated prep after his pothole crash. His form showed that for several stages.
Vindegaard just beat him in the other Tour. Your handlers can't solve all problems.

 

[Oldermanish]

So, Roglic didn't finish ahead of Evenepoel in the Giro this year. For the same reason. But Evenepoel would easily have beaten Roglic without covid. Roglic wouldn't have beaten Evenepoel in the Vuelta 22 even without his crash.

Wait...didn't Roglic win the Giro this year?

And what's this got to do with Tadej?

 

[Miss Violet Smith]

In most races, it's really difficult for me to see if a stronger team would help Pogačar; the team strategy is built so much on him being the stronger rider.

For the TdF 2023, I agree that the base training was not enough for three weeks of GT racing. I'm also thinking that whatever recovery* Pogačar still had to do from the injury interfered with his ability to recover over these three weeks.

*This was likely very, very minor, but I don't think he would have worn the brace if he didn't need it.

 

[shadowrider]

He was beaten at the most recent Tour because he had abbreviated prep after his pothole crash. His form showed that for several stages.
Vindegaard just beat him in the other Tour. Your handlers can't solve all problems.

But he was "fresher" than Vingegaard, also due to his forced rest till end april/beginning of may. Being destroyed twice, in 22 and 23 by Vingegaard and his team proves he needs better teammates (yes, the like Almeida and Ayuso). But, that's not a good sign for the career of both "domestiques" from now on.

 

[shadowrider]

Wait...didn't Roglic win the Giro this year?

And what's this got to do with Tadej?

You have to read all the reactions...

 

[Elos Anjos]

But he was "fresher" than Vingegaard, also due to his forced rest till end april/beginning of may. Being destroyed twice, in 22 and 23 by Vingegaard and his team proves he needs better teammates (yes, the like Almeida and Ayuso). But, that's not a good sign for the career of both "domestiques" from now on.

 

[scribers]

I’d assume the strategy of Ayuso and Almeida is to attack early and often to make their own breaks. Or stand out in a selection if the form is there. Otherwise no, they won’t be protected just to gather steam for one shot at a mtf and time trial. And it won’t matter if they move to another team. If they don’t have it, they don’t have it anywhere. UAE still presents the best option according to their abilities

 

[Oldermanish]

I don’t see how this is so controversial. I am a huge Pogi fan and do not think less of him for it, but he is clearly hedging next season. I would say it is more “courageous” of Remco and Roglic to go all in on the Tour given the long odds of them winning it. That doesn’t make me think less of Pogi for it, though, and I definitely think he could pull the double off.

Also, this quote from a recent article is pretty funny:

“I know myself well now, if nothing goes wrong in my head, I can do all three grand tours if I want. You don’t know until you try,” he said. “This is a good year to do 100 percent in Giro and 100 percent in Tour. I think it can be super good, or it can be just not so good.”

I know I can do it. You don’t know until you try. It can be super good. It can be not so good.

IMO Tadej and the few riders like MVP that are always marked owe absolutely no clues to the competition how their form is, what is an important race might be and who they think is the main opposition.
They could fake a cough, lie to the press and suggest they never feel like they are on form unless that information helps them win. Remco has gotten better at this, too. Give no info to a conglomerate like JV.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So Pogi joked about Rogla needing sunglasses. It' so on!

 

[Peyroteo94]

Who will be his "rivals" in the Giro? I can definetly see him winning 5 minutes in the first week and softpedalling the second half of the race.

 

[RedheadDane]

Just read about his Lombardia "Finishing Bottle": Cucumber, salt, and vinegar. Doesn't sound super appetising, but I guess if it works...

 

[Salvarani]

Just read about his Lombardia "Finishing Bottle": Cucumber, salt, and vinegar. Doesn't sound super appetising, but I guess if it works...

Fixed the cramp.

 

[Lequack]

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Very exciting. Not much to complain about when the only major races missing are the Vuelta, RVV, and P-R, and doing all of that would be insane.

 

[scribers]

Just read about his Lombardia "Finishing Bottle": Cucumber, salt, and vinegar. Doesn't sound super appetising, but I guess if it works...

The vinegar is just a reminder it is supposed to taste awful

 

[pablohidalgo7]

So, Roglic didn't finish ahead of Evenepoel in the Giro this year. For the same reason. But Evenepoel would easily have beaten Roglic without covid. Roglic wouldn't have beaten Evenepoel in the Vuelta 22 even without his crash.

Remco with the shitty preparation that Roglic had for Vuelta 22 (two weeks or even less of training after an injury and no altitude) would have not even considered to start a GT.

 

[Bolder]

There's not much filler in there. Whew. If he wins any four of those it will be a successful season for him...and a career for most riders.

 

[Salvarani]

There's not much filler in there. Whew. If he wins any four of those it will be a successful season for him...and a career for most riders.

Giro and Lombardia should be his best chances.

Anything else would be a bonus, but possible if things goes his way.

Thinking he will win it all is not realistic, but he will probably be a contender for every single one unless unforeseen things happen.

 

[bNator]

So, Roglic didn't finish ahead of Evenepoel in the Giro this year. For the same reason. But Evenepoel would easily have beaten Roglic without covid. Roglic wouldn't have beaten Evenepoel in the Vuelta 22 even without his crash.

Remco has a history of looking strong in the first half of a GT and failing in the last week. His 2022 Vuelta performance is so far proving to be an outlier and it could very well be that Rogla's abscence has something to do with it as well.

If Remco was out with covid or crash on Vuelta 2023 on stage 12, you would probably be saying the same thing: that he would have (easily) won the event. He was in front of both Roglic and Vingegaard by a hefty margin after all...

And it's not just Remco that's "failing" in the final week. It happened to Roglic, Pogacar, Yates, Thomas, Bernal, almost everybody bar Vingegaard so far. Which finally brings me to the bottom line: Claiming someone would have easily won a GT based on the status at stage 12, 16, 18, 19 (or sometimes even 20) is ridiculous.

 

[Berflamand]

Remco has a history of looking strong in the first half of a GT and failing in the last week. His 2022 Vuelta performance is so far proving to be an outlier and it could very well be that Rogla's abscence has something to do with it as well.

If Remco was out with covid or crash on Vuelta 2023 on stage 12, you would probably be saying the same thing: that he would have (easily) won the event. He was in front of both Roglic and Vingegaard by a hefty margin after all...

And it's not just Remco that's "failing" in the final week. It happened to Roglic, Pogacar, Yates, Thomas, Bernal, almost everybody bar Vingegaard so far. Which finally brings me to the bottom line: Claiming someone would have easily won a GT based on the status at stage 12, 16, 18, 19 (or sometimes even 20) is ridiculous.

I don't disagree with your premise that you can't claim someone would have easily won a GT when they DNF halfway the GT.

But saying that Remco has a history of looking strong in the first half of a GT and failing in the last week is a big stretch to me.

His first Giro does not count imo. I think everybody agreed (at least in hindsight) that it was a bad idea to even start that Giro considering his abysmal and rushed preparation after his crash.

He won his first Vuelta and had to leave his second Giro because of Covid while being in the leader's jersey. That leaves only his Vuelta this year where he failed in the second half but one failed GT can hardly prove a 'history' of failing in the last week.