Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Salvarani]

Yup. Pogi lacks an x-factor in MSR. His uphill explosivity is great but on such a shallow climb MVP can match or outpunch him. His descending is not bad in absolute terms but it's average compared to top MSR contenders. His sprinting is exceptional among stage racers but obviously not the best vs big boys. Winning MSR will be hard, even if he has a few seconds of advantage on the top of Poggio.

Despite it... his second attack on Poggio would have probably still have been the winning move, if not for MVDP. It was a very well-timed attack and he initially got a gap to the rest.

If MVDP, who was far down, isnt able to respond he maybe gets away. MVDP could have easily been boxed in from where he was but he realized the danger and was able to close it down right before the descent started.

Otherwise, Pog probably has more seconds going into the descent and might stay away.

UAE might have "messed up"... or as I like to see it, other teams did really well for their objectives and to position their riders going into Cipressa. That will always be hard to defend yourself against. 1 team having to push to stay ahead of 3-4 other teams.

A Politt and having Trentin, like in the past.... who was 2nd rider into Poggio fyi this edition, would have helped but it is possible other teams would have still been able to swallow them up.

The sprint was still very good in the end and if I saw it correctly Pog even had to adjust during it. Lost a bit of momentum.

As always it is small details and magins here.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Despite it... his second attack on Poggio would have probably still have been the winning move, if not for MVDP. It was a very well-timed attack and he initially got a gap to the rest.

If MVDP, who was far down, isnt able to respond he maybe gets away. MVDP could have easily been boxed in from where he was but he realized the danger and was able to close it down right before the descent started.

Otherwise, Pog probably has more seconds going into the descent and might stay away.

UAE might have "messed up"... or as I like to see it, other teams did really well for their objectives and to position their riders going into Cipressa. That will always be hard to defend yourself against. 1 team having to push to stay ahead of 3-4 other teams.

A Politt and having Trentin, like in the past.... who was 2nd rider into Poggio fyi this edition, would have helped but it possible other teams would have still been able to swallow them up.

The sprint was still very good in the end and if I saw it correctly Pog even had to adjust during it. Lost a bit of momentum.

As always it is small details and magins here.

Well, if MVP had been weaker there would have still been the same guys chasing. And they could've caught Pogacar the way they did yesterday. He definitely lacked on the descent compared to them, a couple of times it was clear the he slowed down MVP and Pidcock. UAE lacked at least one strong guy yesterday and maybe drilling more would enable Pog to have a bigger advantage on Poggio. But there's still MVP, who's hard to get rid of.

 

[Red Rick]

Yup. Pogi lacks an x-factor in MSR. His uphill explosivity is great but on such a shallow climb MVP can match or outpunch him. His descending is not bad in absolute terms but it's average compared to top MSR contenders. His sprinting is exceptional among stage racers but obviously not the best vs big boys. Winning MSR will be hard, even if he has a few seconds of advantage on the top of Poggio. After failing time and again one year he might succeed though. I'm sure he will race it many more times.

I was actually impressed by his sprint today, beating Pedersen after a race as 'easy' as Sanremo, but then Pogacar is probably fully recovered from the Poggio by the 2nd hairpin while Pedersen is still full of lactate when they hit the Via Roma.

But yeah, the wincondition in this field is pretty difficult. Probably needs a more difficult race, and that generally only happens because of weather.

 

[Salvarani]

Well, if MVP had been weaker there would have still been the same guys chasing. And they could've caught Pogacar the way they did yesterday. He definitely lacked on the descent compared to them, a couple of times it was clear the he slowed down MVP and Pidcock. UAE lacked at least one strong guy yesterday and maybe drilling more would enable Pog to have a bigger advantage on Poggio. But there's still MVP, who's hard to get rid of.

They would have still had more time to take back if Pog had gotten away on his second attack. They looked like they were hesitating until MVDP went after him and both of them had small gap going into the descent.

MVDP just sat on the wheel on Pog in the descent, he was then riding for Philipsen. It wasnt easy to get away anymore at that point.

Pidcock was far down and had to pass the whole other group first. Same with Mohoric. Both of them could have gotten more out of the descent, if in better position when the descent started. Both tried attacks on the flat which could have made it, unless for MVDP again.

We can talk about UAE "lacking", it is never gonna be perfect in this race for a bunch of factors mentioned, but in the end it is that moment after the second attack... when MVDP is able to close him down that decides it is going to be sprint this edition and that he is able to pull back the others going into Via Roma.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Covi should have just ridden slowly on the front until Hirschi, Del Toro and Wellens had joined him and Pog. Then they could have dropped the hammer. As it was, it was really inefficient because Del Toro had to spend a lot of his energy getting to the front and Hirschi never got there.

If Covi had slowed down, it would also have been easier for other teams to block the remaining UAE riders from getting back up to the front, and there would have been a shorter part of the climb for them to push the pace on, but yeah it still looked like they shot themselves in the foot a bit.

 

[Rob5091]

" it still looked like they shot themselves in the foot a bit."
Did n't UAE try the same thing last year and still did n't win? What's that old definition of madness about doing the same thing over and over again?

 

[Salvarani]

If Covi had slowed down, it would also have been easier for other teams to block the remaining UAE riders from getting back up to the front, and there would have been a shorter part of the climb for them to push the pace on, but yeah it still looked like they shot themselves in the foot a bit.

I think you are bringing up a good point.

Because the other teams had more power in the run-in to Cipressa. UAE were caught between a rock and hard place, but they had to commit at that point. Covi did a great job and Del Toro as well. Wellens was great on Poggio.

It wasnt ideal or perfect, but it was still a decent performance. It was a good fight. Other teams will never just sit behind in this race and let UAE do their thing, without a fight.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I think you are bringing up a good point.

Because the other teams had more power in the run-in to Cipressa. They were caught between a rock and hard place, but they had to commit at that point. Covi did a great job and Del Toro as well. Wellens was great on Poggio.

It wasnt ideal or perfect, but it was still a decent performance. It was a good fight. Other teams will never just sit behind in this race and let UAE do their thing, without a fight.

There's no doubt they lost during the run-in to Cipressa. How much of a difference it actually made to end result, we can't say. I wouldn't mind them trying a different approach in the future though, where they just keep attacking with all their riders and make the other teams work. I mean they don't have to win it with Pogačar, but if he had helpers with him over the top of Poggio, that could still benefit him.

 

[Salvarani]

There's no doubt they lost during the run-in to Cipressa. How much of a difference it actually made to end result, we can't say. I wouldn't mind them trying a different approach in the future though, where they just keep attacking with all their riders and make the other teams work. I mean they don't have to win it with Pogačar, but if he had helpers with him over the top of Poggio, that could still benefit him.

Yes, but I still think as is... is the best way.

Either Pog can get away on the top or at the end of Poggio. Almost made it this time. It is the closest he has come to be able to go solo. Attack on the flat like Pidcock did, would have won if not for MVDP.

Or third, win it in the sprint which he could have in his locker.

I think it would have made more sense to try something "different", if he hadnt been so close... but he has been close. If not for a demon descent from Mohoric and a brilliant MVDP in the past two editions... he might have had at least one.

This race at the end of it, has very much to do with race instincts and less about tactics or a super-strong team. There is no doubt Pog has great race instincts, showcased by his second attack yesterday.

Maybe not attacking with "all their riders" would make sense or be possible, but maybe having someone to attack after Wellens is done could be a move. Pog could then counter on that. Just so he doesnt have to make first attack. Ayuso or maybe Morgado could make sense, but then you are asking them something that they might not want to do. It is politics involved in the team selection. Might not work in practice with such a line-up.

Then add someone like Politt, which probably wont be a big problem.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Yes, but I still think as is the best way.

Either Pog can get away on the top or at the end of Poggio. Almost made it this time. It is the closest he has come to be able to go solo. Attack on the flat like Pidcock did, would have won if not for MVDP.

Or third, win it in the sprint which he could have in his locker.

I think it would have more made sense to try something "different", if he hadnt been so close... but he has been close. If not for a demon descent from Mohoric and a brilliant MVDP in the past two editions... he might have had at least one.

This race at the end of it, has very much to do with race instincts and less about tactics or a super-strong team. There is no doubt Pog has great race instincts, showcased by his second attack yesterday.

Maybe not attacking with "all their riders" would make sense or be possible, but maybe having someone to attack after Wellens is done could be a move. Pog could then counter on that. Just so he doesnt have to make first attack. Ayuso or maybe Morgado could make sense.

Then add someone like Politt to the line-up as well.

Sure, by the looks of it this tactic will probably work sooner or later, if he keeps his high level (which we of course know he will for at least the next 4 years ), but he could also end up as the next Sagan. Time will tell, but right now I have the feeling that UAE might be better off by having options rather than going all in on one guy, even if it is the best one around.

 

[Salvarani]

Sure, by the looks of it this tactic will probably work sooner or later, if he keeps his high level (which we of course know he will for at least the next 4 years ), but he could also end up as the next Sagan. Time will tell, but right now I have the feeling that UAE might be better off by having options rather than going all in on one guy, even if it is the best one around.

I think Morgado, with time, is the one for this race that could be a different option but they will get lost trying to have 3-4 different options or something.

They been close and I would rather bet on they getting closer with more tries and small tweaks, than trying to do something completely different all of a sudden.

No matter what you do it will be difficult.

Try to make the race hard. Then it is just racing thats decides it and they arguably has the best racer, which still might not be enough in this race. You just cant control or predict the end of it.

 

[mou]

UAE's problem is that there is no cohesion in the team, no real workers, no real rollers, no real sports directors, no real general manager, but Matxin is an excellent scout who thinks he can lead the team, but there are a lot of spoiled stars who all think he is better from the second one when there is no Pog. Ayuso does not want to drag Almeida, Almeida cannot look at Ayuso with his eyes, Soler has his own policy (winning the stage), A. Yates thinks he is better than everyone except Pog, McNulty declares that he thinks he can take the Tour and he didn't perform in the last 4-5 if we look at 2024, total chaos and then when Pog is in the team they can't implement the right tactics because they are used to chaos, you can't be in chaos for 5 months and then expect that one race that everything will be fine, a lot problems of a political nature, and pressure from the Emirates, there's a lot more, but it's not for a further story...

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Ayuso does not want to drag Almeida, Almeida cannot look at Ayuso with his eyes, Soler has his own policy (winning the stage), A. Yates thinks he is better than everyone except Pog, McNulty declares that he thinks he can take the Tour

at least one of them is right

 

[Savant12]

It seems that there will always be the top guys over the Cipressa regardless of how high a pace UAE ride at. The hard pace only reduces some of the peloton but then they've got nothing for the flat and riders always come back. Pog's best bet is to counter after a slow-down on the Poggio like he did yesterday. But he needs at least someone on his team to attack on the Poggio before he does and make the others chase.

 

[mou]

Put Pog in Visma and then it wouldn't be fair and interesting for the cycling world, people would turn off the TV after a while, it's more interesting this way, you have by far the best cyclist in the world with a terribly organized team from top to bottom, with a few exceptions, and you have the best organized team in the last 10 years or so with very good and excellent drivers, and that adds charm to it all, one of the few people in the UAE who knows his job is Javier Sola and Pog was lucky enough to work with him from 2024 so that in these big races that are not these ciciban races, like San Remo, even these rediculous people from the UAE can't spoil

 

[tobydawq]

Put Pog in Visma and then it wouldn't be fair and interesting for the cycling world, people would turn off the TV after a while, it's more interesting this way, you have by far the best cyclist in the world with a terribly organized team from top to bottom, with a few exceptions, and you have the best organized team in the last 10 years or so with very good and excellent drivers, and that adds charm to it all, one of the few people in the UAE who knows his job is Javier Sola and Pog was lucky enough to work with him from 2024 so that in these big races that are not these ciciban races, like San Remo, even these rediculous people from the UAE can't spoil

Like Sagan versus QuickStep back in the day.

 

[tobydawq]

Also, what does the word 'ciciban' mean?

 

[Salvarani]

It seems that there will always be the top guys over the Cipressa regardless of how high a pace UAE ride at. The hard pace only reduces some of the peloton but then they've got nothing for the flat and riders always come back. Pog's best bet is to counter after a slow-down on the Poggio like he did yesterday. But he needs at least someone on his team to attack on the Poggio before he does and make the others chase.

Agreed.

 

[mou]

Also, what does the word 'ciciban' mean?

a funny race, for amateurs, not demanding, a race where you can't make a difference, where a man who is 15th in terms of quality and strength in the race can beat the strongest in the race because this one can't show that strength, do I need to continue or is it enough 😉 😉

 

[mou]

the only ciciban race among these classics is San Remo, it's a shame that nowadays it's a monument and the Strada is not, I'm not interested in history and what happened around 1964 and people's nostalgia, I'm talking realistically

 

[Samu Cuenca]

UAE's problem is that there is no cohesion in the team, no real workers, no real rollers, no real sports directors, no real general manager, but Matxin is an excellent scout who thinks he can lead the team, but there are a lot of spoiled stars who all think he is better from the second one when there is no Pog. Ayuso does not want to drag Almeida, Almeida cannot look at Ayuso with his eyes, Soler has his own policy (winning the stage), A. Yates thinks he is better than everyone except Pog, McNulty declares that he thinks he can take the Tour and he didn't perform in the last 4-5 if we look at 2024, total chaos and then when Pog is in the team they can't implement the right tactics because they are used to chaos, you can't be in chaos for 5 months and then expect that one race that everything will be fine, a lot problems of a political nature, and pressure from the Emirates, there's a lot more, but it's not for a further story...

Matxin is not really a great scout. He's just had a lot of money to throw around to gather some talents that were obvious to see for everyone else, too.

 

[CHGJ2000]

Matxin is not really a great scout. He's just had a lot of money to throw around to gather some talents that were obvious to see for everyone else, too.

Pogacar wasn't seen as this kinda talent in u23s or juniors. He was just very good, nowhere close to a rider you'd think was gonna be an all time great by the time he's 25. This was a guy who got out punched by Ivan Sosa repeatedly in his Avenir win and then within a year was already matching one of the most explosive GC riders of recent times.

 

[Vudy]

Also, what does the word 'ciciban' mean?

Ciciban race = a race for children, meaning too easy. Something like that. Ciciban was the name of a magazine for children.

 

[mou]

currently Pogacar on a 20 min hill has 6.7 w/kg after 4 hours of driving of 5w/kg and the plan is for the Giro to have 6.9w/kg and for the tour 7.0w/kg, Javier Sola is currently basing his training on 5 and 20 min power , after Catalunya there will be 30+ min of hills and at Altitude after Giro 40+ min of hills, don't forget that I have a code from Pogačar Training peaks and that I know what is being done at all times, TT training was seriously approached and I can only tell you that in the middle of February, a TT was held between Pogacar, Bjerg and Ayuso on a 30 km pan flat course in Valencia and the results were as follows: Bjerg 33:58, Ayuso 33:40, Pogačar 32.44, so much for Ayuso, the best TT, quality intervals were introduced in Pogacarev training, it's no longer boring like 4 hours ago Inigo zone 2, training was introduced 2 times a week on a TT bike, heat training with Core was introduced, private exercises were introduced in Monaco with Alex Bacilli, a top expert, briefly imagine what Pogacar was like until 2024 and what will it be like with all these improvements in equipment and training and San Millan can continue to train Ayuso, Almeida and Mcnulty and ask yourself how much those 3 have progressed and how much they needed considering the talent, this Pogačar from Strade Bianche is at 85 %, for the Giro there will be no savings and it will be at 100%, and for the Tour everything is planned as for the Giro, only 1 kg less, i.e. 64 kg

View: https://youtu.be/fK63DfksW_Q?si=ko9oifqXvKwwHnkS

Jump on 40:00 min😉😘💯

 

[tobydawq]

a funny race, for amateurs, not demanding, a race where you can't make a difference, where a man who is 15th in terms of quality and strength in the race can beat the strongest in the race because this one can't show that strength, do I need to continue or is it enough 😉 😉

It's enough, I was just asking as I hadn't heard the word before, no need to assume I'm stupid.