Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[AmRacer]

That’s fair. I think Pogacar’s best hope is that Visma isn’t as strong, to limit the overall build of fatigue in the race.

We should also take into consideration what Rogla and Remco means for the race dynamics.

 

[Extinction]

Yeh, I was kind of inferring that ("an imperious Vingo"). Anyway, let see what a smooth prep delivers. He is also skipping some classics races since he needs to do the Giro.

Not sure what all this means in terms of what he might have left by July. It was too much for Alberto Contador in 2011. But Contador raced a crazy Giro in 2011 and that edition had far more climbing than this year.

And then Contador crashed in that Tour, plus he was on the rebound from the "bad steak" affair. But we should leave that to the clinic.

 

[Netserk]

We should also take into consideration what Rogla and Remco means for the race dynamics.

Little. Visma will make sure the mountain stages are raced hard. It's the only way to kill Teddy.

If Pogi is less than stellar from the beginning of the Tour, Vingegaard could lead the race from Valloire to the end.

 

[Extinction]

We should also take into consideration what Rogla and Remco means for the race dynamics.

Let's hope they are on fire for the spectacle.

 

[AmRacer]

Little. Visma will make sure the mountain stages are raced hard. It's the only way to kill Teddy.

If Pogi is less than stellar from the beginning of the Tour, Vingegaard could lead the race from Valloire to the end.

You think the other two will be dropped early?

 

[Cookster15]

That’s fair. I think Pogacar’s best hope is that Visma isn’t as strong, to limit the overall build of fatigue in the race.

Pogacar's best hope is he can win the Giro without draining himself too much and stays relatively fresh and uninjured for July. Visma would be ill advised to get complacent.

 

[Extinction]

You think the other two will be dropped early?

It's possibile that they will try to kill the rest early, but if not the Nice TT could be decisive.

 

[Netserk]

You think the other two will be dropped early?

I don't think they will be in a position to affect how Pogi and Vingegaard will attack each other. If one of the two drop the other, he will drop the rest as well.

 

[Froome]

Sure, his preparations was strongly affected and this could've been an important factor on Loze day. Still, even without that it would've been hard to beat Vingo (the ITT was the mother of thermonuclear performances! Plus no chance to drop him on Loze anyway).

In normal conditions Pogacar would always lose 1/1 min 15 on la Loze. The same in granon.

The gaps were crazy. Adam yates was 2 min and 15 s slow than Vingegaard, and he didn’t had to go deep, because Pogacar faded.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

In normal conditions Pogacar would always lose 1/1 min 15 on la Loze. The same in granon.

The gaps were crazy. Adam yates was 2 min and 15 s slow than Vingegaard, and he didn’t had to go deep, because Pogacar faded.

It's a realistic scenario that Pog would've lost some time to Vingo on Loze anyway. Long climbs and accumulation of them look more like Vingo's game. Still, Tourmalet stage happened.

 

[roundabout]

In normal conditions Pogacar climbs high mountains as well as Bardet?

 

[Netserk]

In normal conditions Pogacar climbs high mountains as well as Bardet?

I don't think Bardet would have been within 1½ minutes of Vingegaard on Granon if he had to dig as deep on Galibier as Pogi did. So Pogi losing ~1'10" there would not mean that he was no better than Bardet.

EDIT: I didn't remember that Bardet almost bridged across at the top of Galibier, so the difference is mostly the accelerations and Pogi being more in the wind on Galibier.

 

[Froome]

In normal conditions Pogacar climbs high mountains as well as Bardet?

Pogacar had to go more deep on telegraphe and Galibier, like netserk said.

In normal conditions, pogacar would be better than Bardet on Granon.

Pogacar already said in a interview that he suffers a bit in altitude and in long climbs, and that's okay because you can't be dominant in everything.

If you remember since 2020, Pogacar is better than the majority of the riders in long climbs and altitude in Grand Tours, but he is not dominant.

In 2020, on la loze he was dropped by Roglic and Lopez, in 2021 he was dropped by Vingegaard on mont ventoux, he finished with Vingegaard and carapaz on col du portet.

In 2022, Granon and hautacam. He also couldn't make differences on alpe d huez.

In 2023 he faded on granon, but in normal conditions he would had lost 1 min/ 1 min and 15.

Vingegaard broke miguel angel lopez record by 1 min and 15 s and lopez was probably the best climber in altitude in 2020 and 2021, and he didn’t had to go deep. The conditions how they did la loze were probably worse than in 2020, because the riders were very tired after a hard stage, a hard TT in the previous day and it was in the third week.

Vingegaard perfomances in long climbs with altitude are a lot superior to the perfomances that the colombians quintana, bernal and miguel Lopez did previously. Probably the best performances of this century in altitude.

Hindley on passo fedaia is the closest perfomance i see in comparation with the perfomances he has been doing on that conditions.

 

[sam6]

Pogi says that he wants to win all 7 major one-week long stage races. But if that is the case, why race the Tour of Slovenia when he could be winning the Dauphine or the Tour de Suisse

 

[roundabout]

Pogacar had to go more deep on telegraphe and Galibier, like netserk said.

In normal conditions, pogacar would be better than Bardet on Granon.

Pogacar already said in a interview that he suffers a bit in altitude and in long climbs, and that's okay because you can't be dominant in everything.

If you remember since 2020, Pogacar is better than the majority of the riders in long climbs and altitude in Grand Tours, but he is not dominant.

In 2020, on la loze he was dropped by Roglic and Lopez, in 2021 he was dropped by Vingegaard on mont ventoux, he finished with Vingegaard and carapaz on col du portet.

In 2022, Granon and hautacam. He also couldn't make differences on alpe d huez.

In 2023 he faded on granon, but in normal conditions he would had lost 1 min/ 1 min and 15.

Vingegaard broke miguel angel lopez record by 1 min and 15 s and lopez was probably the best climber in altitude in 2020 and 2021, and he didn’t had to go deep. The conditions how they did la loze were probably worse than in 2020, because the riders were very tired after a hard stage, a hard TT in the previous day and it was in the third week.

Vingegaard perfomances in long climbs with altitude are a lot superior to the perfomances that the colombians quintana, bernal and miguel Lopez did previously. Probably the best performances of this century in altitude.

Hindley on passo fedaia is the closest perfomance i see in comparation with the perfomances he has been doing on that conditions.

1min is your number based on nothing.

A guy who can drop Pogacar by 1 minute on the Loze would have sentenced the Tour on the Tourmalet already.

Maybe Vingegaard is inherently better than Pogacar on longer climbs/hard stages, but it's also obvious that he super-peaks for those days.

 

[Froome]

1min is your number based on nothing.

A guy who can drop Pogacar by 1 minute on the Loze would have sentenced the Tour on the Tourmalet already.

Maybe Vingegaard is inherently better than Pogacar on longer climbs/hard stages, but it's also obvious that he super-peaks for those days.

No disrespect for Pogacar perfomance on Tourmalet, it was good, but the tatics from Jumbo on that day were really bad. The pace of Jumbo was too easy on aspin and in the first 14/15 km of tourmalet.

The pace was just hard in the last 3 km of tourmalet. Pogacar was fresh, and he benefited a lot by drafting in those last kms.

 

[roundabout]

No disrespect for Pogacar perfomance on Tourmalet, it was good, but the tatics from Jumbo on that day were really bad. The pace of Jumbo was too easy on aspin and in the first 14/15 km of tourmalet.

The pace was just hard in the last 3 km of tourmalet. Pogacar was fresh, and he benefited a lot by drafting in those last kms.

Cue the excuses when the actual results do not fit the narrative you have built in your head.

Fact is that Tourmalet was done in record time and nobody but Pogacar was within 1 minute of Vingegaard.

Other than Kuss and Bardet the rest were 2 minutes back in a bit over 4km.

An inherently better Vingegaard going full gas should have dropped Pogacar even in these conditions.

 

[Froome]

Cue the excuses when the actual results do not fit the narrative you have built in your head.

Fact is that Tourmalet was done in record time and nobody but Pogacar was within 1 minute of Vingegaard.

Other than Kuss and Bardet the rest were 2 minutes back in a bit over 4km.

An inherently better Vingegaard going full gas should have dropped Pogacar even in these conditions.

The record had 30 years and was detained by rominger and jaskula, not that special. We are not talking about a record detained by Pantani in his prime days.

 

[roundabout]

The record had 30 years and was detained by rominger and jaskula, not that special. We are not talking about a record detained by Pantani in his prime days.

A record that was 30 years old and took 14 climbs to break seems pretty special to me.

Surely if it was a record that was set by scrubs not worthy of capitalization it would have been broken much quicker.

 

[SHAD0W93]

, in 2021 he was dropped by Vingegaard on mont ventoux, he finished with Vingegaard and carapaz on col du portet.

Dropped by Vingegaard or didn’t care that he was close to 6 mins behind and had a descent to catch him which Vingegaard did get caught. While Pogacar couldn’t drop Vingegaard and Carapaz, they also couldn’t drop him while he had put in a lot of work to go solo.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Yeh, I was kind of inferring that ("an imperious Vingo"). Anyway, let see what a smooth prep delivers. He is also skipping some classics races since he needs to do the Giro.

Not sure what all this means in terms of what he might have left by July. It was too much for Alberto Contador in 2011. But Contador raced a crazy Giro in 2011 and that edition had far more climbing than this year.

To add more perspective to how well Contador rode the Tour excluding the crashes is how every other GC contender looked in a double attempt, even the Vuelta. Every contender was weaker in their double attempt, that Giro was crazy. Yet Contador was still in with a chance to win and had some hard attacked the last week.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

I think Pogacar has shown last season and this season that his climbing peak can be basically on par with Vingegaard, if he has a monster bonk again it's basically irrelevant to talk the ifs and whats of small margins.
His main problem is that Vingegaard the last two seasons has time trialled like a prime Indurain/Ullrich hybrid in the Tour and moped the floor with Pogi. And an even bigger issue is that Pogacar has so far shown no indication whatsoever that he might be capable of doing back to back GTs at 100%. So unless he can somehow magically make the Giro a big preparation race I don't see him matching up with the skeletor at all.

 

[Froome]

Dropped by Vingegaard or didn’t care that he was close to 6 mins behind and had a descent to catch him which Vingegaard did get caught. While Pogacar couldn’t drop Vingegaard and Carapaz, they also couldn’t drop him while he had put in a lot of work to go solo.

Nobody wants to get dropped, even if the gap is big.

Yes, but he couldn't go alone on Portet. That's the dominance i talked about on that conditions.

20 minutes climbs in low altitude he was more dominant, when great perfomances. He is better on that type of climbs.
Romme+colombiere, peyresourde, LPDBF in the TT.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Nobody wants to get dropped, even if the gap is big.

Yes, but he couldn't go alone on Portet. That's the dominance i talked about on that conditions.

20 minutes climbs in low altitude he was more dominant, when great perfomances. He is better on that type of climbs.
Romme+colombiere, peyresourde, LPDBF in the TT.

Yet it was stage 11 and Vinge was a non-factor at that point. People put too much stock into that when it hasn’t really occurred for other riders who are down a lot on GC who attack and are let go.

So would you consider the stage Pog attacked Vinge on and Vinge caught back up before the top of the climb after sitting up Vinge being dropped?

 

[Froome]

Yet it was stage 11 and Vinge was a non-factor at that point. People put too much stock into that when it hasn’t really occurred for other riders who are down a lot on GC who attack and are let go.

So would you consider the stage Pog attacked Vinge on and Vinge caught back up before the top of the climb after sitting up Vinge being dropped?

What stage are you talking about? Joux plane?